Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

Originally posted by misschareesee
Are demons and fallen angels the same critter? I'm no-one who's researched into matters ancient text, but also, what of the sons of God who produced those giants with the daughters of men? Are those sons of God fallen angels? Or yet, their own critter?

The learned magus Brother Blue (Where are you dude?) presented the following that might or might not be relevant to this discussion, but should be relevant to your question.

Hope life has been treating you well misschareesee...you've suffered a lot for the sake of ufology. Hugs.


Enoch & the Nephilim

Originally posted by ImpactoR
...yes we can, any open minded person can handle it as long as there is suggestion, the evidence and likelyhood of your idols Jauqes Valee and similar is close to none.

Truth? So now this is truth? Evidence? Close to none about those evil demons shapeshifters!

You are better off with the Religion forum this is clearly not your place...

Speaking of Jacques Vallee, he might just be more openminded than you give him credit for. And, it should be noted, he is no member of any of the traditional "religions."

JV: If it changes shape, if it can appear out of nowhere and disappear into nowhere, this is not just a bunch of spacecraft. This is a much more interesting technology that manipulates dimensions. It manipulates space-time. And if it can do that, then it can be from anywhere and anytime.

DBS: Where are they coming from, if not from outer space?

JV: Let me try to separate what I think I can prove from personal speculation. I would feel comfortable standing up in front of a scientific committee and I think I could argue convincingly that the UFO phenomenon is a real, unrecognized phenomenon; that it is physical and that it can manipulate space and time in ways that we don't understand.

Beyond that, my own personal speculation which I could not prove is that the phenomenon represents a form of consciousness that is nonhuman. There's a big distinction here. A lot of people might agree that there are unrecognized phenomena in nature, but wouldn't necessarily agree that they are conscious even though they are nonhuman. If UFOs represent a form of consciousness then obviously it could originate in outer space, but not with the first level, nuts-and-bolts extraterrestrial hypothesis. It would have to be a lot more sophisticated than that. There could be a form of consciousness out in space that can manipulate dimensions. But it could just as easily be here on earth. It could be using the Earth as its home port.

It could also be tied to human consciousness. The Collective Unconscious could be doing this to us, projecting images that are important during the current crisis we are going through. It could also come from a form of creature that has always lived on Earth with us and is not an alien consciousness, in the sense that we usually think of aliens. This goes back to the traditions about the faeries and gnomes and Little People: what I have called the Magonia tradition, that in fact there is another Universe right here. Perhaps most of us just don't see it, but it's here.

When I started Passport to Magonia, I gathered all the old books about the faeries and the Good People, the Good Neighbors. This is a wonderful body of literature. These beings did approximately what the UFO beings do today. They would fly at night in strange cone-shaped luminous craft, they would abduct human beings, they even had little pins that would paralyze you. This is centuries ago, okay? And it matches reports from people who see UFOs today.

So I think that parallel is very interesting. It's still one of my favorite theories but there could be others! You could argue that there are natural phenomena that play a role in all this. For instance, Paul Devereux has written several books about "Earth lights" which he has shown to be tied to several megalithic sites. Whether the megaliths have anything to do with UFOs, or whether those sites tended to have strange lights so that over the years people used them for their temple and put a rock there, is open to question. Perhaps it was a natural phenomenon all along. That's a possibility, but it really does not explain all UFOs....

CONT...

The other possibility is that there may be forces within the Earth tied to some old traditions. There may be unrecognized telluric currents, forces within the Earth that could manifest in the form of electromagnetic phenomena that could become luminous and float through the air. Usually those things we don't think of as being intelligent but who knows? Maybe it could be a form of consciousness.

There are other way-out theories that I find entertaining. We could imagine superconductive clouds moving through the galaxy taking any shape they want. Say, if you were a superconductive hydrogen cloud ten times the size of the solar system and you wanted to look like a Volkswagen, who could stop you from looking like a Volkswagen? You could do anything you wanted to! There is a book called The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle, who is one of our greatest living astronomers. It is a science fiction story about a conscious hydrogen cloud. Now, of course if there was such a cloud we'd presumably see it as it came closer to the Earth. But there may be forms of plasma that we don't know how to detect yet, or maybe we're simply not looking for them.

Now, I don't specifically believe all that, but these are fun theories that should be looked at. Paul Devereux's hypothesis of the Earth Lights is a very important one.

Geologists today are beginning to reassess the descriptions by people who said they saw lights before an earthquake: "I saw this globe of light and it flew down the canyon and ten minutes later there was an earthquake!" Geologists used to say those were ignorant farmers who didn't know their physics. Now they are beginning to realize that before an earthquake the friction forces within the Earth could well create plasma or electromagnetic discharges that could become visible. In fact, scientists like Dr. John Derr at the US Geological Survey have found a correlation of these lights with fault lines and earthquakes.

web.archive.org...

reply to post by The GUT


Thank you I have very well suffered mucho! Well, I found this quote from your link
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
a great observation, and which I myself had long noticed too.

I recall twenty-some years ago my surprise and immense curiosity when I read the words of Jesus stating that "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man." Knowing full well at the time that one activity appeared to clearly differentiate the culture of Noah's time from our own; a disturbing program whereby the "sons of God" procreated with the "daughters of men" and, in so doing, created an oddball hybrid species known in many ancient texts (including the bible) as the Nephilim.
It was not until very recently that I began to see a mirror image of this hybridization program reflected in our very own culture; that of the grey abduction scenario whereby sperm and ova are extracted from unwilling human participants, genetically engineered then implanted back into the female womb--only to be extracted at the end of the first trimester during subsequent abductions. It appears that the "sons of God" are once again copulating with the "daughters of men" just like in the days of old Noah.

Say, I would very much like a Book Of Enoch. I have a regular (King James) Bible, Genesis to Revelation, but an actual bible-like book of Enoch would be verrrrrry cool.

reply to post by misschareesee

Maybe a PDF would do for now?

The Book of Enoch: Translated from the Ethiopic

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
...also, what are your thoughts on radar/visual sightings? it seems to me that these could not be caused by the human mind alone. (but really who knows? it IS possible)

I like radar report cases, but I do have to take cases such as the following into account:

...At the time, a lot of emphasis was placed on UFO sightings that were confirmed by radar – as late as 1989 and the Belgian UFO wave, specific emphasis continues to be placed on this “technological confirmation”. But Davidson pointed out that as early as 1945, mechanical countermeasures against radar had become publicly known – and used. It was known that these could cause blips on the radar screen, resulting in incorrect range, speed, or heading. This was called Electronic Countermeasures and Davidson believed this method of counterintelligence was used to present the myth that “UFOs” existed. Davidson drew the infamous equation: ECM+CIA=UFO, suggesting that the CIA were creating ECM signals on radars, so that people would believe in the presence of UFOs, as they confirmed eyewitness accounts of anomalous objects in the sky. Furthermore, the anomalous blips were a perfect mechanism to distort the true capabilities of any new aircraft that was being test-flown – occasional sightings of which were passed off as UFOs too.

Publicly, Davidson identified two incidents that were instrumental in forming this opinion...

A lone chemist’s quest to expose the UFO cover-up

If the Spanish Inquisition were still a viable power these days...they would probably be having a field day over this thread. Better yet...who needs the Spanish Inquisition when you have some right wing Christian Evangelicals castigating the otherworlders that ocassionally visit or planet --- as evil demons on these type of threads; along with some interviews on CoastToCoast radio.

Beam me up Scotty,

Erno

Originally posted by Erno86
If the Spanish Inquisition were still a viable power these days...they would probably be having a field day over this thread. Better yet...who needs the Spanish Inquisition when you have some right wing Christian Evangelicals castigating the otherworlders that ocassionally visit or planet --- as evil demons on these type of threads; along with some interviews on CoastToCoast radio.

Beam me up Scotty,

Erno

You had a close encounter that included what might be called high-strangeness didn't you, Erno? Somewhere in the hills? If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

If I do remember correctly, can you point us to that accounting?

As always, my respect to you old friend.

reply to post by The GUT


There's one huge problem with that hypothesis. That being, there are a goodly number of cases where the visual identification is wholly commensurate with the Radar track.

If I might qualify the excellent post about cultural bias.... A demon can be defined as "Any non human sentient intelligence which fails to acquiesce and corroborate with the human agenda."

Originally posted by FireMoon
...If I might qualify the excellent post about cultural bias.... A demon can be defined as "Any non human sentient intelligence which fails to acquiesce and corroborate with the human agenda."

Agreed. I don't even insist we use the word 'demon." I do suggest that the authors and quotations listed here are worthy of consideration.

The radar question--especially in accordance with eyewitness accounts--has compelling reason to consider them. However, they don't necessarily negate any of the ideas presented here and/or have possible explanations inline with Leon Davis' hypothesis.

Gotta take a fine, 88 yr old veteran--my pop--shopping. More later. I guess it would be somewhat in bad taste to wish you a happy Fourth of July in the traditional sense, mate, but I do wish you a very fine day!

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by The GUT

 

There's one huge problem with that hypothesis. That being, there are a goodly number of cases where the visual identification is wholly commensurate with the Radar track.

Indeed FireMoon,

Once a hypothesis has been falsified as explaining the preponderance of an observational body, then further predictive testing and promotion of that hypothesis is NOT the next step in the scientific method. It simply becomes a smokescreen and a waste of time.

Such is the nature of Psychological and Religious hypotheses. They have already been falsified as generative, and relegated as stipulative only (explaining SOME cases at best). In continuing to wallow in this, one can only perform repetitious predictive testing that makes the proponents feel better about adopting a non-vetted idea as being the outcome of scientific thought, when in fact, no such achievement has been attained at all.

It is a defense mechanism against fear. And fear is not a legitimate basis for managing hypothesis hierarchies.

There are no 100% Space Alien UFOs reported. If there were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

reply to post by Druscilla


Herein lies the problem. For one to be naive in assuming such a phenomena would and is not, the focus of the highest level of important and also secrecy.

Any 100% Alien UFOs reported? If there were, we'd still be having this discussion

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
I just cannot buy the demon theory.
With the evidence we see of technological advances from these creatures, we would be toast by now if there were a truly evil intent.
Rather, check out the works of Dr. John Mack. His in-depth interviews with abductees suggests there is mind-expanding, even spiritual evolution taking place with these contacts.

What good is it to farm a species for their spiritual life force (energy) if you jsut eliminate them? There will be no HARVEST of that soul energy, and therefore the entire "terrafarming" would be irrelevent.

Just because you live in a biological body trapped inside the Earth's atmosphere - does not mean these entities are alike - they feed off something much more valuable, more pure then gold and diamonds, more useful then meat and water.. Its your soul energy my friend

People - you should understand this is a prison planet, I have a thread giving a general 'hint' to this 'system' they have created, they who are non-human-intelligence. Your comprehension of things much larger and more complex then what you have been taught is very limited because you choose not to understand it or acknolwedge it.

The information is everywhere, the truth is here, the controllers know what I speak of, as they are taking part in the trapping of souls - so they can be harvested.

Sorry for the cold truth - but I dont play games - this reality as you may call it - is much more deep then what you see with your eyes, its what you cant see which should worry you - this is why activating the chakaras, then ultimately the third eye (the 'brow chakra') is so important - so oyu can SEE what is beyond your 5 senses.

Anyone looking for the truth and REALLY waants to wake up - who have enough spiritual energy and a strong mind to perceive past this realm we call physical - can U2U me for more information, advice and references.

Thanks for the thread the GUT, but if your looking for the truth, your only looking into murky water here

Originally posted by covertpanther

Thanks for the thread the GUT, but if your looking for the truth, your only looking into murky water here

Hi CP!

The waters certainly are murky across all disciplines/theories. What are we talking about here: The harvesting of souls ala the Hidden Hand model or the Law of One (Ra Material)? We are on the same page at least as regards a "hidden world," despite personal interpretations.

Your post was very diplomatic and certainly welcome, but I'd like to take this opportunity to address something : The name-calling and aspersions cast about by some of the other posters here affect me very little.

I knew coming into this thread what lie in store. What gets me are those who assert or imply that anyone who gives some of the theories here their due attention is close-minded or the victim of parental patterning as relates to any "religious" or "supernatural" or "paranormal" aspects that come up. That does tick me off a bit and here's why: I come by my theories/suspicions/beliefs/opinions as honestly as anyone else.

My childhood and most of my adulthood hasn't included much "church" at all. I am a "seeker," however, and I can make a pretty good argument that I've gotten around in many areas of philosophy, religion, and humanistic secularism.

There are some here who have tons more experience in the esoteric, but probably few have spent as much time around the--and I hesitate to use this as a catch all term--the new age community. I spent close to 5 years up close and personal with some of the best-selling gurus, adepts, channelers, Wiccans, Magus', illuminated/enlightened, syncretic Far Eastern religion acolytes, Chaos magicians, etc.

Not as an acolyte--admittedly--but as an openminded seeker of the "truth" that so many profess to possess. Also as a social circle. I still hang out with many of them from time to time. And, yeah, I've had a few interesting experiences--as an observer--around some of them that I have a hard time explaining in simplistic terms. Enough to have come to the conclusion that the "paranormal" is not just another word for "schizoid delusion." It seems more complicated than that. "Jungianesque" at the very least.

To tell the honest truth, as I've experienced it, the more 'adept" these folk are, the less happy--and more selfish--they seem to be.

Then we have the "Science" folk. That's Science with a capital "S." I appreciate some of their logic and some of their contributions, but many of them are practicing their own dogmatic religion as well. Plus, they generally run from, and have no coherent explanation for, consciousness. You know: That weightless, massless phenomena responsible for civilization as we know it. That faster-than-light enigma that makes societal existence possible. Not to mention their ever-changing views on what physics are and encompass. Sheesh.

So somehow, along with my belief that we are indeed looking at a world that is moving towards "globalization" read that NWO, AND the high-strangeness aspects of that which we call ufology…then, yeah, I've come to a point where I can no longer--as I once did--dismiss the biblical perspective.

Sure there are "holes" in that picture, but it is also hard to ignore how the Jews have managed to retain their identity through the diaspora, how they managed to achieve nationhood again, how the mid-east is--as predicted--the continual "hotspot" of civilization, how the world seems to be rushing towards the aforementioned OWO, how beings of light--and apparent "sky chariots" of the nuts and bolts variety are referenced, man's inhumanity to man in general--all were pretty accurately predicted & described by what the ignorant refer to as "sheep herders." No, there's something there to consider.

Like I said: I come by it honestly…as I'm sure many have in their own theories/suspicions/beliefs/opinions. Peace.

Interesting read and definitely worth to think also into that direction and the possibility of Mars -> Earth which in my
believe could be very possible, especially since it has been seriously considered to teraform Mars.

Interesting is also the reference to the Bible - after all it is one of the oldest books and I doubt that everything in there is written for "religion".

One thing that was kind of funny is this:

[QUOTE]To her understanding, these beings are "caretakers" or "guardians" of the planet, Earth. Their function is to bring forth "revelation" through the spirit of unity, and, the earth is the soul of God; a living entity (paganism).[/QUOTE]

Well the don't do a good job, do they? :-)

reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic


That's a very slightly interesting pile of assertions . . . evidently based rather wholesale on intense biases and scant substantive research.

Actually, Guy Malone, LA Marzuli, Chuck Missler, Cris Putnam, Tom Horn et al . . . AS WELL AS Dr Jacques Vallee . . . investigated a huge amount of data from a huge number of cases.

Guy Malone has 400+ cases in his files alone.

However, I recognize that the Evangelical Christian perspective on the phenomena is extremely disliked because of the uncomfortable implications--particularly the implications regarding cosmologies . . . and the implications for THAT re one's behaviors.

reply to post by Druscilla


I am absolutely interested to hear your take on the psychological aspects. Seeing as there are reports through history of 'gods' and 'aliens' which religious doctrine and practices were built around, have you looked into the 'binding problem' of neuroscience?

Plato wrote of the 'allegory of the cave' which was merely a retelling of his experiences as an initiate of the Egyptian mysteries. It involves the cave (skull) limiting the perception of reality that can only be understood from outside of it.

He goes on to describe the very essence of things as abstract which become increasingly enmeshed with other abstract ideas to form our reality. For example a chair in the abstract could only be conceived of as something to sit on, that is no standing on it and no beating people over the head with it, etc.

So to get to the point, do you think the binding problem could be indicative of his view of spirit descending into matter or in other words mind over matter?

Binding problem
en.wikipedia.org...

The binding problem is a term used at the interface between neuroscience, cognitive science and philosophy of mind that has multiple meanings.

Firstly, there is the segregation problem: a practical computational problem of how brains segregate elements in complex patterns of sensory input so that they are allocated to discrete 'objects'. In other words, when looking at a blue square and a yellow circle, what neural mechanisms ensure that the square is perceived as blue and the circle as yellow, and not vice versa? The segregation problem is sometimes called BP1.

Secondly, there is the combination problem: the problem of how objects, background and abstract or emotional features are combined into a single experience.[1] The combination problem is sometimes called BP2.

Perhaps maybe expand on what is actually being measured in brains scans. We know from self reporting when someone is thinking of something, but is there any study showing scientifically through physical media what someone will be thinking?

Just my 2 cents as I think it is very important in the part of the discussion you are clearly literate in.

EDIT
Also let me add I find it incredibly interesting that there is rarely physics resembling our waking state occurring in our dream state. It could be the origin of mankind's concept of a heavenly realm, there is also the possibility that it is in fact a separate space.

I think you mentioned Newton earlier but did not see any mention of his practice of Alchemy which was a hermetic/ gnostic inspired belief system and not chemistry. Interesting that many of the great thinkers were influenced by this line of thought (Medici's Galileo- Hermetic texts, Plato/Pythagoras Egyptian mysteries, Apollonian mysteries doubling the volume of a cube/ squaring the circle) and pursued it in their quest for truths.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
That's a very slightly interesting pile of assertions . . . evidently based rather wholesale on intense biases and scant substantive research.

"scant?" Where did you get this idea about my personal level of research, from divine revelation? I know that many Christians (including the 'references' you cite below) depend upon divine revelation for their data collection. If we are dealing in divine revelations, I am at a disadvantage so please warn me if this is the case. ('scant substantive', is an oxymoron, just fyi...)

"pile?" I have only asserted an ethical method of handling ideas, which keeps one honest. It does make religious people defensive, yes, to be held accountable for vetting of evidence and thought. I think a 'pile' is typically used in the pejorative when addressing a load of 'data.' I have not asserted any data.

"intense bias?" Religion is a Ph.D. in intense bias.

Actually, Guy Malone, LA Marzuli, Chuck Missler, Cris Putnam, Tom Horn et al . . . AS WELL AS Dr Jacques Vallee . . . investigated a huge amount of data from a huge number of cases.
Guy Malone has 400+ cases in his files alone.

Yawn.

400? LOL! Now that qualifies as a pile.

Yes, I have listened to or read these guys rambling on in various lectures over the years maybe 65-70 hours (??) worth in total. Two 'cases' at most (which typically involve religious witnesses in the first place) and then 20 solid minutes of spouting angry epithets about people not accepting their religion, and how urgent the message is, and that they are just dying to get more funding.

John Ankerberg spouts this dogma too, and he is one of the most dastardly men on the planet. I should just buy this 'wholesale' as you call it?

The NIDS database puts these guys all to shame. Heck just one month of George Filer's or Peter Davenport's materials is way more challenging than what these clowns have assembled over their entire lives.

Messengers of Deception.

However, I recognize that the Evangelical Christian perspective on the phenomena is extremely disliked because of the uncomfortable implications--particularly the implications regarding cosmologies . . . and the implications for THAT re one's behaviors.

Wishful thinking.

No, this is a common self delusion among religious people. Very similar to academicians and corporate brand executives. They begin to believe that their own BS is inerrant, because they represent 'Jesus,' or 'Science,' or 'Home Depot, GE, WalMart...' Once this insanity has developed, they can never be told another thing for the rest of their lives.

This is why possessing a discipline whereby you can hold your OWN thinking accountable is your first priority.

And the idea that everyone else just wants to be free from Guilt-ianity to behave bad...is simply a Christian fantasy. Holding your mind accountable produces all kinds of fruit in terms of character and circumspection, which I never witnessed while in the church. In this regard, the skeptics and the atheists are correct.

Originally posted by TheEthicalSkeptic

Originally posted by BO XIAN
...

"scant?" Where did you get this idea about my personal level of research, from divine revelation?

Not at all. The unsupported, seemingly unconnected-to-evidence blather pretending to support a hollow perspective was quite sufficient.

I know that many Christians (including the 'references' you cite below) depend upon divine revelation for their data collection.

You "know" that obviously similarly to your "knowing" about UFO's. LOLOLOLOL. What IMPRESSIVE knowledge . . . hung on a sky hook anchored in fog on a July morning toward noon in Phoenix.

I haven't observed that much, if any, at all. Some may claim some sort of spiritual, revelatory insight about some of the evidence etc. but that's NOT considered evidence. Sheesh.

... to be held accountable for vetting of evidence and thought.

Actually, I haven't observed folks of your perspective even hold themselves very accountable to vetting evidence and thought. It's routinely dogma from the religion of scientism proffered as "evidence." LOLOLOL.

I think a 'pile' is typically used in the pejorative when addressing a load of 'data.' I have not asserted any data.

You may well be more expert on the perjorative stuff in such discussions, alright. And, I can certainly agree that you have little to no reasonable or solid data to support your perspective on UFO's.

"intense bias?" Religion is a Ph.D. in intense bias.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . . more objectivism. LOLOLOLOL.

Actually, Guy Malone, LA Marzuli, Chuck Missler, Cris Putnam, Tom Horn et al . . . AS WELL AS Dr Jacques Vallee . . . investigated a huge amount of data from a huge number of cases.
Guy Malone has 400+ cases in his files alone.

Yawn.

400? LOL! Now that qualifies as a pile.

That's a much bigger pile of solid evidence than I've read from your perspective. That's a lot of lives and a lot of misery and trauma that was !STOPPED! cold.

Yes, I have listened to or read these guys rambling on in various lectures over the years maybe 65-70 hours (??) worth in total. Two 'cases' at most (which typically involve religious witnesses in the first place) and then 20 solid minutes of spouting angry epithets about people not accepting their religion, and how urgent the message is, and that they are just dying to get more funding.

Must be like the hours of scientism religionists spouting angry epithets about those who don't believe THEIR dogma.

John Ankerberg spouts this dogma too, and he is one of the most dastardly men on the planet. I should just buy this 'wholesale' as you call it?

I think John has some solid insights and useful research to present but his style is not my preference.

The NIDS database puts these guys all to shame. Heck just one month of George Filer's or Peter Davenport's materials is way more challenging than what these clowns have assembled over their entire lives.

I disagree. However, I do support Peter Davenport. I've communicated directly with him and have always found him reasonable, rational, of high integrity and a rather meticulous researcher.

No, this is a common self delusion among religious people. Very similar to academicians and corporate brand executives. They begin to believe that their own BS is inerrant, because they represent 'Jesus,' or 'Science,' or 'Home Depot, GE, WalMart...' Once this insanity has developed, they can never be told another thing for the rest of their lives.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh What IMPRESSIVE "solid" "evidential" based notions.

Sheesh. What hypocritical duplicity pretending to be rational.

This is why possessing a discipline whereby you can hold your OWN thinking accountable is your first priority.

Your assumptions are showing again.

However, IF you really wanted to investigate your construct system relative to "objective" "reality" . . . this link could be helpful:

gigi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca:2000...

Holding your mind accountable produces all kinds of fruit in terms of character and circumspection, which I never witnessed while in the church. In this regard, the skeptics and the atheists are correct.

Evidently that church was a poor example of such organizations.

My co-religionists believe quite strongly in accountability--behavioral and mental.

I know I'm late to the party and am just now reading the articles linked in the OP but anyway...

Interesting material. In my current world view, I don't think any misguided occultists left open portals in the space time continuum that Lam-like greys came pouring through. In looking at comparisons between a drawing of Lam, descriptions of the greys, machine elves, fairies, etc. the most logical explanation to me is that this represents some sort of mental archetype ( the Jungian term though not necessarily with as expansive a definition.)
For example, if [a certain chemical which apparently can't be mentioned here] causes people to perceive similar entities, then there is a chance that has mostly to do with the chemistry or physical mechanics of the human brain. I'd like to believe in the more spiritual aspects of Jung regarding the psyche and archetypes but I'm not sure that I can justify it to myself. Regardless, there does seem to be some sort of "UFO" phenomenon that perhaps does leave physical traces but it certainly seems as if individuals are somehow projecting contents of their psyche onto whatever is being perceived. Even in cases where you have visual reports confirmed by radar or even photography there can be significant disagreement between individuals about what was seen.
As for the aliens as demons meme, maybe someone has brought this up already but somewhere around here I have a copy of Peter Rojecewicz's "The Men in Black Experience and Tradition: Analogues with the Traditional Devil Hypothesis," It's been years since I read it but I'd like to take a look at it again in light of this discussion.