The government is not the problem

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by lampsalot

 

So you would rather be ruled by Bentonville and Palo Alto than by Washington?

Here is the thing.

We weren't never meant to be ruled over WE ARE THE RULERS of GOVERNMENT.

I agree. We have forgotten that politicians are meant to be servants, and doing so have tolerated corporate pawns representing us.

I think the reason why today's climate is so pro business and anti government is because the common story throughout the 20th century was the government killing people who it disagreed with or didn't like. The last century started with Armenia and ended with Bosnia and Rwanda and included the two worst genocides on record (the Holocaust and Holomodor). All supported/planned by governments.

Corporations on the other hand had a huge part to play in the infotech revolution and thus are greatly admired though the public contribution to our digital revolution is vastly underestimated. As much as people like to rag on Al Gore for supposedly claiming to have "invented the Internet" he had a huge part in the popularization and advocacy of the Net and Web.

There's also to a lesser degree a downplaying of corporate complicity in the dictatorships and authoritarian regimes of the 20th century.

In your average person's mind, governments take their money and kill free thinkers and corporations lavish cheeseburgers and cool cell phones upon them.

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by tridentblue

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by tridentblue
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Its hard to point at what the real problem is, because the private sector you're talking about isn't really the private sector at all, because they are so tied in to government.

You're getting the causality mixed up. The government is being privatized, the corporations aren't being nationalized.

I'm saying there's no difference. If a private industry like the military industrial complex gets its money from taxpayers (govt. contracts), and you have a revolving door where they influence govt., then they have become a part of the government in function, just not in name.

I agree with you but there's a better solution to that than getting rid of the government and privatizing everything, something which would only accelerate the problem of evolving fascism. Lobbying should be criminalised and all elections should be funded with public money and every major candidate given an equal amount of money for their campaign so that they are judged on their merits and not on how much money they spent to slander the other side and sell their own sex appeal.

Yeah, that's why the whole right left business is such a clown show. If neo96 is saying that we should shill for more corporate rights, he's got a nasty surprise coming when those more empowered corporations move in, take over the govt. further, and raise taxes to pay themselves. All privatizing is about is transferring things currently done by accountable govt. agencies to unaccountable private forces, and making people pay for them all the same. When the right shills for corporations without bounds on their reach into govt., or the left shills for big government without restraints like you talk about, they're both feeding this same machine.

It's possible to solve the "problem" in one quantum step. Get rid of obsolete "god fearing" religions. Replace them with real spiritual truths and wisdom -- plus an understanding of the spiritual fact that what you sow in this lifetime, you will without a doubt reap in your next.

Peace on Earth

The dream isnt dead! The dream is being killed! Killed by whom? Fear! Fear is killing our dreams. The government isnt doing anything different than what they have been doing for centuries! The only difference now is that "We know about it!". The more we seem to learn, the more we are afraid of taking any kind of actions that we would have taken if we didnt know what the hell was going on! We're quick to say we cant based on some pre conceived/learn knowledge that we have attained. Just do it. It will happen. Just do it, do not be afraid!!!! We hinder ourselves! Scrap the plate you were getting and get a new one, build that plate based upon the fact that happen after you've tried to attain the things you want! Start from scratch!

(post withheld)

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" U.S.A! U.S.A! "

What laws does corporation write?
What laws does corporation pass?
What taxes does corporations collect?

We are currently living in a police-state.

We have become a fascist nation.

And you, the OP, want to blame corporations and rely on government?

Originally posted by lampsalot
I don't think the government is the real problem. I think the real problem is the private sector.

I disagree.

The government has been bought and paid for because our politicians and judiciary have no integrity. They are totally corrupt. They don't even read the legislation they vote on .... so it goes without saying that they don't even know what they are voting on. Making matters infinitely worse, this "legislation" is frequently handed to them by their corporate masters.

But in the long run, it does not matter that the corporatists are the corrupting factor at this time, they could not subvert a government being run by men and women that possessed honesty and integrity. The full blame lies with the politicians and the judiciary.

There is no "the problem" as the title suggests. Rather that one entity that is/or is not the problem it is a combination of many cultural, economical, religious, political and ethical problems within the system (whatever you want to call it). It is the system that is inherently wrong, therefore all government is but a mere error in a much larger failed design.

We live in a system still based on hierarchy, the problem is that the power that once meant you get to eat first has mutated into being able to destroy another nations economy. I have always said it is narrow minded to accuse the left of right, however it is also narrow minded to blame and particular facet of a corrupt system on the world ills too.

Stepping out of the systems is near impossible but I feel meditation is a real solution. I guarantee if all humans began practicing meditation we would advance exponentially in regards to human rights and even new forms of technology. I try not to focus on the problems and instead promote what I feel are the solutions.

What OP doesn't seem to grasp is that in a free market system people can not purchase a good or service a bad company provides but with government that is not an option. With government, you pay and obey or you go to jail.

the private sector is all too happy using and abusing the public sector


the public sector used to be a bottomless pit of money...bailing out private industry if need be.
now its the other way round!

they use the army to secure oil fields...then the private sector charges their families extreme prices for feul.

but yea...the propaganda is happy with us blaming our government... in support for private sector pressures in governance...

peace

Originally posted by lampsalot

I think you people who wish the government would just go away should think about this - who would you rather be ruled over, our government, which is still technically democratic, or private enterprise?

Private enterprise. With the Government, even if no one went to an election ever again, they would appoint themselves into office by whatever means necessary and cite national security as the reason. The populace could go "off the grid", and it wouldn't change a thing.
.
With private enterprise "in charge" people can opt to shop wherever they want. Don't like a particular business because of what they sell, or because you disagree with whom they hire to keep the country safe? (Think Blackwater) Quit giving them your money and they'll die. Businesses cannot force people to shop them in order to keep themselves in business. The people would pretty much dictate their fate because of that fact. The populace could go "off the grid" and that would change everything.

The only reason the Government is still around is because most people believe that they cannot lead themselves. And they're right. People have been led for so long that they wouldn't know how to behave otherwise.

As far as actually getting things done though, the Government is useless.

Originally posted by beezzer
What laws does corporation write?
What laws does corporation pass?
What taxes does corporations collect?

We are currently living in a police-state.

We have become a fascist nation.

And you, the OP, want to blame corporations and rely on government?

Are you going to ignore the bribery, aka lobbying, that has basically turned our country into an overly corrupt corporatocracy?

I know people hate too much government, and I agree, but to sit there and ignore who really controls the government is dishonest.

reply to post by lampsalot

I don't think the government is the real problem. I think the real problem is the private sector.

Not entirely wrong but... not entirely correct, either.

The common denominators between both the government and corporate is greed and lust for absolute power and control. And at certain levels... aka: special interests, which is a two-way street as well, the circle jerk is indeed a complete circle of jerks jerking jerks.

Of course, if we weren't so predisposed to partisan politics and cared more for reality than the guy flapping his gums about the other guys... we might have been able to repair this before it got to where it is today.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by supremecommander

 

Gee I don't know lemme think:

1. Is it the people who make everything we use on a daily basis that employs us and gives us everything we want that creates jobs and wealth.

2. Or is the people who do nothing but destroy jobs, and wealth and make me buy crap from them?

Only people I see going around telling me I have to buy crap is GOVERNMENT.

A bloody evil corporation has never made me buy crap, and gives me a job to provide for myself.

So think I will go with number 2

edit on 29-6-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

You completely ignore the point about the same "job creators" that you blindly worship bribing the same people you are bitching about. Either discuss this topic honestly or don't, but please spare me with the corporate shilling nonsense in the above quote.

What?, Independence Day is 4 days away, what a joke, a sick joke, but who's laughing?.

Corporations were UNLAWFUL (a term used when the Constitution was observed and Honored BY GOVERNMENT) until 1819.

Corporations were UNLAWFUL until 1819 for very good reason, they were the long arm of the English Empire we fought our way out from under.

Our Forefathers fought the Corporations because they took more than they were willing to pay from their own labor, they got fed up with living by the leave of another after paying taxes hidden in ridiculously priced everyday things people needed to survive.

Government allowed corporations back into the U.S. in 1819, and tried to keep corporate power under control for a time, but the corporations became too powerful with enough financial clout to influence policy and write laws to make doing business more profitable for them.

If you think you are celebrating a good thing in 4 days, think again, you have been lied to.

You and I are laying on the ground with a jackboot poised over our faces once again.

reply to post by voudon

The reason everything and everyone (nearly) is run at threshold (on the verge of self destruction) is to keep people from meditating or even having time to really stop and think and come to some realizations about the tub of excrement they swim around in every day, all day....

Then you have "The Bum's Rush", this offer is only valid until....use your credit card for quicker service.....

Use whatever drugs you need to kill the pain, that's why they are there at all.

I mean no offense by the drug reference, and do not mean to insinuate you use drugs.

I just begin to rant sometimes.

We are allowed to even have this internet thing as a way to keep us discussing things in a meaningless "Get Nothing Done " way, while our opinions and conversations are being monitored and tabulated to determine what would be the best thing to present to us to keep us jabbering about meaningless things forever in a forum where it will never change anything

The internet is a good way to feed your need to fill the empty space in your soul with worthless consumer goods and widgets, just use your credit card and it comes right to your front door while you sit around while your arteries clog and obesity sets in.

They'll sell you something for that too...............................

reply to post by lampsalot


the revolving door is a big problem..

with that comes subverting the checks & balances

from the inside..

government is no longer able to govern itself..

reply to post by reeferman

Your avatar frog looks like it licked too many frogs.

Good for Him/Her.

Yeah, Recidivism, Mmmmmmmmmm.

blog.ourfuture.org...

Read this article and see if you can figure out why this horsecrap doesn't seem to work.