The government is not the problem

I don't think the government is the real problem. I think the real problem is the private sector. The private sector is becoming more powerful and our democratically elected government less effective and more of a sham, because corporate power is so great that they can essentially buy off our system with lobbyists and they have thrown so much advertising at their corporate candidates that the honest candidates have been forced into obscurity and don't stand a chance.

I think you people who wish the government would just go away should think about this - who would you rather be ruled over, our government, which is still technically democratic, or private enterprise where the people with money get to make the rules and the poor and working class have no rights at all?

reply to post by lampsalot


Pretty much, but the corporate interests are on a PR campaign to brainwash the mental midgets of the USA to believing that it's the government that's the problem.

A famous saying goes something like

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

And that's what corporations have done, they have taken over not only the money supply, but also the media outlets. And they lobby our government in order to push laws THEY want to make.

The problem is acknowledging that there is actually a problem... Hopefully the new way wont be as hindering to you as the current state of things.

reply to post by lampsalot


Its hard to point at what the real problem is, because the private sector you're talking about isn't really the private sector at all, because they are so tied in to government.

I also don't think America is anywhere close to a tyrannical state now (at least not to its own citizens) but if things continue to go the way they are now by midcentury the corporate powers will run pretty much everything and our government will exist only on paper.

I think America is too large as a country, not as a government. Rome failed partly because it was too large. I live further away from Washington than London is from Moscow. There's no way that a government with a few thousand people can accurately represent the interests of 330 million people spread out over an area that's the size of a small ocean.

Originally posted by tridentblue
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Its hard to point at what the real problem is, because the private sector you're talking about isn't really the private sector at all, because they are so tied in to government.

You're getting the causality mixed up. The government is being privatized, the corporations aren't being nationalized.

Government is not the problem?

They ARE THE PROBLEM.

They created every damn issue we are talking about it's their jobs.

See if government actually fixed anything there would be no need for it so they create problems to give themselves jobs every issue created they create 'solutions' that creates more problems, and they create more 'solutions' rinse and repeat ad infinitum..

Corporations who backs them?

Government,.

Geez.

Yes and no.While I agree that certain entities within the private sector are the one of the bigger parts of the equation, it doesn't fall solely upon their shoulders. They only do what they're allowed to do. Furthermore, I don't think the corruption is a directed attempt at slandering the government in the perception of the people. I see it more as the private sector just really doesn't care about the public perception of the system of governance. The private sector is going to get what they can when they can.This is where the burden of responsibility falls on the ones who govern themselves. In recognizing that the private sector could care less about public perception there should be a concerted effort in keeping it under control, especially when you take into account how much influence and power large amounts of wealth wield. Failure to reel in these large interests and keep them under control is a systemic failure of governance. Something that certainly needs to be accounted for.

Originally posted by neo96
Government is not the problem?

They ARE THE PROBLEM.

They created every damn issue we are talking about it's there jobs.

See if government actually fixed anything there would be no need for it so they create problems to give themselves jobs every issue created they create 'solutions' that creates more problems, and they create more 'solutions' rinse and repeat ad infinitum..

Corporations who backs them?

Government,.

Geez.

edit on 29-6-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

The corporate powers that you worship bribe public servants to do their bidding. Who is the real problem and enemy here?

Originally posted by neo96
Government is not the problem?

They ARE THE PROBLEM.

They created every damn issue we are talking about it's there jobs.

See if government actually fixed anything there would be no need for it so they create problems to give themselves jobs every issue created they create 'solutions' that creates more problems, and they create more 'solutions' rinse and repeat ad infinitum..

Corporations who backs them?

Government,.

Geez.

edit on 29-6-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

If the government didn't exist we would be even more dependent on the corps. Without government, who would run the schools? Probably the ones that were not religious schools would be ran by corporations such as Varsity, Bic and Houghton Mifflin. Who would build the roads? Probably the oil companies. Who would run the hospitals? Probably the drug companies and better make sure you have cash on hand if you need an ambulance!

People would accept more corporate domination because the sanctions of not doing so would mean going back to nasty brutish and short living. Without government infrastructure would probably be mostly corporate with a bit of religious institutions and maybe if we're lucky a tiny bit of cooperative enterprise.

reply to post by supremecommander


Gee I don't know lemme think:

1. Is it the people who make everything we use on a daily basis that employs us and gives us everything we want that creates jobs and wealth.

2. Or is the people who do nothing but destroy jobs, and wealth and make me buy crap from them?

Only people I see going around telling me I have to buy crap is GOVERNMENT.

A bloody evil corporation has never made me buy crap, and gives me a job to provide for myself.

So think I will go with number 2

The problem ISN'T the government.

It goes FAR beyond that...

The "Octopus" is what ties all other conspiracy theories together.

Most on ATS can't handle that kind of truth and choose instead to bury their head in the sand...

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. The Synagogue of Satan

Government is absolutely the problem and to try and say that its not and that the private sector is is just crazy. If the government would do it's job as per the Constitution and would represent the interests of the constituents as they should then the private sector could become as big and evil as it wanted and it wouldn't really effect the citizenry because of the government serving the people and securing the rights and liberties of the citizenry.

The fact is that the government is corrupt and broken and instead of serving the people it has made a habit of serving corporate interests and campaign donors. The private sector has no authority to pass laws, enforce laws, print money, raise taxes, or anything else so saying that they are the reason for the problems in America is just well......almost unbelievable that someone would say that.

Sure in a very miniscule way they are part of the problem due to their campaign donations and the "favors" they receive in return but in the end it boils down to a corrupt and broken government that lacks virtue and alliance to the people which they are sworn to serve.

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by tridentblue
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Its hard to point at what the real problem is, because the private sector you're talking about isn't really the private sector at all, because they are so tied in to government.

You're getting the causality mixed up. The government is being privatized, the corporations aren't being nationalized.

I'm saying there's no difference. If a private industry like the military industrial complex gets its money from taxpayers (govt. contracts), and you have a revolving door where they influence govt., then they have become a part of the government in function, just not in name.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by supremecommander

 

Gee I don't know lemme think:

1. Is it the people who make everything we use on a daily basis that employs us and gives us everything we want that creates jobs and wealth.

2. Or is the people who do nothing but destroy jobs, and wealth and make me buy crap from them?

Only people I see going around telling me I have to buy crap is GOVERNMENT.

A bloody evil corporation has never made me buy crap, and gives me a job to provide for myself.

So think I will go with number 2

edit on 29-6-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

We have to give the old Soviet Union some credit. Without the threat of communism the corporations would not have given workers the rights they enjoy today. Without socialism you could just forget about sick days or holidays and even the weekend wouldn't be a promise. These were given to us in large part because corporations knew that that labour could always rebel against them and they could end up going under. Since 1991 that's changed as neoliberalism has very few real enemies and socialism and the government are both highly unpopular.

Originally posted by Nucleardiver
Government is absolutely the problem and to try and say that its not and that the private sector is is just crazy. If the government would do it's job as per the Constitution and would represent the interests of the constituents as they should then the private sector could become as big and evil as it wanted and it wouldn't really effect the citizenry because of the government serving the people and securing the rights and liberties of the citizenry.

The fact is that the government is corrupt and broken and instead of serving the people it has made a habit of serving corporate interests and campaign donors. The private sector has no authority to pass laws, enforce laws, print money, raise taxes, or anything else so saying that they are the reason for the problems in America is just well......almost unbelievable that someone would say that.

Sure in a very miniscule way they are part of the problem due to their campaign donations and the "favors" they receive in return but in the end it boils down to a corrupt and broken government that lacks virtue and alliance to the people which they are sworn to serve.

And what do you think has caused our republican system to fail? Do you think electorial democracy is inherently flawed and that consumerism guarantees people's rights better than democracy? Or is the problem that private interest is so powerful that the public system is crushed under the weight of it and is essentially powerless?

reply to post by lampsalot

If the government didn't exist we would be even more dependent on the corps

Right now 100 million Ameircans ARE DEPENDENT on GOVERNMENT via forced taxation of redistrubitive wealth so they can go out and buy CORPORATE PRODUCTS.

Without government, who would run the schools?

Locals like the use to until 1979 until the Department of Indoctrination came along.

Probably the ones that were not religious schools would be ran by corporations such as Varsity, Bic and Houghton Miffli

Private schools are self funding producing more successful and smarter students than their public counter parts true story.

Who would build the roads?

Same people who do now bloody evil corporations

Probably the oil companies.

Wasn't for those bloody evil oil corporations there would be no roads because of the billions they spend bringing that to market so all anyone has to do is push a button at the pump where the GOVERNMENT takes a cut of every single gallon of gas sold in this country.

Great racket they got there getting paid for doing absolutely nothing.

Who would run the hospitals?

Unions just like they do schools, and FEDERAL GOVERNMENT agencies hows that working out?

Probably the drug companies and better make sure you have cash on hand if you need an ambulance

Awe what's not to like about drug companies?

That's where birth control pills and the morning after comes from.

People would accept more corporate domination because the sanctions of not doing so would mean going back to nasty brutish and short living.

People are being 'Corporate dominated' when the GOVERNMENT forces us to buy their products, and robs from peter to pay paul so people can go out and buy more corporate products,

Without government infrastructure would probably be mostly corporate with a bit of religious institutions and maybe if we're lucky a tiny bit of cooperative enterprise.

LOL see the above corporate domination via social engineering programs ALL corporate products.

reply to post by lampsalot

And what do you think has caused our republican system to fail? D

This thread is what's causing the republic to fail the idelogy of it GOVERNMENT is,has, and always will be the enemy of the citizen.

In a Republic you can't rob from a minority to benefit the majority that is the basic fundamental foundation.

Originally posted by tridentblue

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by tridentblue
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Its hard to point at what the real problem is, because the private sector you're talking about isn't really the private sector at all, because they are so tied in to government.

You're getting the causality mixed up. The government is being privatized, the corporations aren't being nationalized.

I'm saying there's no difference. If a private industry like the military industrial complex gets its money from taxpayers (govt. contracts), and you have a revolving door where they influence govt., then they have become a part of the government in function, just not in name.

I agree with you but there's a better solution to that than getting rid of the government and privatizing everything, something which would only accelerate the problem of evolving fascism. Lobbying should be criminalised and all elections should be funded with public money and every major candidate given an equal amount of money for their campaign so that they are judged on their merits and not on how much money they spent to slander the other side and sell their own sex appeal.

There is more to it than just government being led by big corps but since that's the topic I would say a law saying no more lobbying and no financing candidates when that big. Not sure how that would work and is unlikely to happen.

If people would pay attention to the little guy regardless of media and stop using MSM for all of their knowledge it might help. Those not funded by big corps don't get as much attention so that means people need to look harder and donate to their campaigns. We play a big role in this.