If your Country instituted a Draft/Conscription would you go or dodge it?

reply to post by crazyewok

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The comparison is out of place because it flat out has no place. Nazi Germany and Obama's America have nothing in common. The "Police State" we're seeing has as much or more in common with Stalinist Russia or Mao's China. 60 MILLION civilians died in those systems being put into place by force. Why not that comparison? The idealism is at least equal in most ways...where the idealism behind the Nazi movement has little to no common ground or acceptance to repeat today. So, in pure specific terms for historical accuracy? That is how the comparison has absolutely no validity...on pretty much any level.

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Would I call those who ran or went to jail traitors for Vietnam? Yes and No. Literally, in that order. The ones who ran for the hills and Canada (which isn't accepting this time...they're fighting along side us on the Battlefield) were cowards and Ford's worst act was pardoning them. They should have served their time (In uniform or a cell) and learned by the consequence of their action.

The ones who went to jail? No... They weren't cowards any more than those who demanded and rightly qualified for Conscientious Objector Status. I don't care for C.O. status, but it's no easy thing to attain and it's a WHOLE lot more work to get than running for a national border to hide like a rodent.

CO's also saved a lot of lives in their roles as Medics and other areas to serve while keeping their moral objections intact and NOT running from their call.....liked or not....like 'fair weather' friends.

Going to jail is fair enough ...and what everyone KNOWS will happen for refusing a legal order to appear for enlistment under the current Selective Service system. I just hope it never comes to that.....as a ton of things went horribly wrong for it ever to come to that. It won't be the time to run....for most, I imagine.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


The comparison is out of place because it flat out has no place. Nazi Germany and Obama's America have nothing in common. The "Police State" we're seeing has as much or more in common with Stalinist Russia or Mao's China. 60 MILLION civilians died in those systems being put into place by force. Why not that comparison? The idealism is at least equal in most ways...where the idealism behind the Nazi movement has little to no common ground or acceptance to repeat today. So, in pure specific terms for historical accuracy? That is how the comparison has absolutely no validity...on pretty much any level.

It was more a example of what happens if one blindly supports there country unconditionly rather than call the USA NAZI Germany.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Would I call those who ran or went to jail traitors for Vietnam? Yes and No. Literally, in that order. The ones who ran for the hills and Canada (which isn't accepting this time...they're fighting along side us on the Battlefield) were cowards and Ford's worst act was pardoning them. They should have served their time (In uniform or a cell) and learned by the consequence of their action.

The ones who went to jail? No... They weren't cowards any more than those who demanded and rightly qualified for Conscientious Objector Status. I don't care for C.O. status, but it's no easy thing to attain and it's a WHOLE lot more work to get than running for a national border to hide like a rodent.

CO's also saved a lot of lives in their roles as Medics and other areas to serve while keeping their moral objections intact and NOT running from their call.....liked or not....like 'fair weather' friends.

Going to jail is fair enough ...and what everyone KNOWS will happen for refusing a legal order to appear for enlistment under the current Selective Service system. I just hope it never comes to that.....as a ton of things went horribly wrong for it ever to come to that. It won't be the time to run....for most, I imagine.

No I see your point. I respect that. Running and not standing your ground is the cowards way out and does not change anything.

At the end of the day though would you like to see a Family member drafted and forced to fight so as to make Obama happy? Most likley while his own family and the familys of most of congress sit the war out safely?

reply to post by crazyewok


It would have to be a direct threat to my country for me to be conscripted, 'cause my dads rich, white and has powerful contacts........ Oh that's not me........

I enlisted when I was 17. I got my reminder to sign up for selective service when I was 18 and already on active duty for the better part of a year. I found it a bit silly and an indication that they were not paying much attention.

Originally posted by superluminal11
I wont fight unless they invade.

They = Foreign or Domestic

Foreign and domestic operatives have already invaded and they set up their FOB in DC. The invasion was clandestine and was done over many decades.

Not to get off topic, but if there was a mandatory military service in place, maybe we would have less kids acting like hard ass gangsta's?

reply to post by Im2keul


"Word"

I'd report to whatever place I'm supposed to simply because I don't like to break the law. However, I'm fairly certain that I'd be having panic attacks like crazy and uncontrollable crying. I would share my beliefs and let them know that I will not under any circumstance kill another human being or help anyone else do so. If I was forced to be on the battlefield (or whatever it's called) I would most likely do my best to dig myself a big ass hole and hide in it until it was over or I was dead/killed. Cowardly? Probably so, I do not care and will not be forced to go against what I believe in. I'm no soldier.
This has been on my mind since the new regulations regarding women being allowed on the front line. Were they planning to open the draft for women as well as men?

reply to post by crazyewok


I echo the sentiment of many others, If I were going to wage war else where, for no reason other then spreading the Amerikan brand of democracy. Then I would plant my ass in my folding chair at the lake and wait for them to find me.

If there was an immediate threat to my families safety and security here, on the soil I walk daily then, they wont need to conscript this guy I'll already be at the front line defending what my, fathers, fathers, worked hard for me and others to enjoy.

But if called up to fight a corporate war for dollars and cents. I might be the first casualty on this side cause I wont go without fighting.

SaneThinking

reply to post by crazyewok


Well, I'll be entirely honest here since it moves into the realm of the personal ..and a fair spot to go, given the topic at hand. My son just turned 13. He's got 5 years to be in the jackpot and Syria is just starting up in a serious way ...among other places. It's not theory to wonder as my wife and I have both, sadly, concluded.

What we have here is a fair to even chance given recent wars (Iraq and Afghan both in the 10+ year range) that if Syria sucks us in too, he'll come of age at the point where fighting may well be his to decide.

In the spirit of complete honestly, I'll share what my wife and I concluded on this, at least at this point. If selective service is reactivated to use the rolls for draft call up, then one of two things will happen. It'll depend on our discussion then. What we'll be discussing is two fold. What is the justification, in our minds, for the fight he's been called to join? Is it Vietnam Politics or are we facing fighting in our own streets..or worse...if we lose?

Based on the outcome of ^^^ That discussion, we'll DO one of two things. # 1). We'll help and support him in every way possible to join the Military (and I'd push hard for a voluntary into the AF or Navy before drafted as a Ground Pounder) with everything I can bring to bear in making his future as positive as possible for his return. Or... #2). Well help and support him in every way possible to meet and endure his jail term that he'll be required to serve instead of his place among those of his generation in a distant fight.

Running? Well... I'll help CATCH him, if my Son runs. Why? Two reasons... I'm teaching him how to be a man capable of walking with a tall posture who should never feel second to anyone else based on integrity or character. He'd lose it all in that action. Second? He'll have DESTROYED his future in SO many ways, it's hard to calculate. College? forget it.... Financial Aid is tied into initial checks on things like Selective Service. Gov't job all the way down to toilet washer in a public park? Forget it...... He won't even be allowed to clean the toilets of the system he ran from ...should that be the path taken.

I would be laughing

I would report smile and not argue


As soon as those morons told me I was re-enlisted..

"Respectfully request permission to go to chaplain's office"

can not deny it per DOD regs

"Respectfully request permission to go to Medical"

can not deny it per DOD regs

"Respectfully request permission to go to Legal"

can not deny it per DOD regs


Since its one hundred percent legal, they forced me back...they are gonna be stuck with the bill..

I am a disabled vet..

Chaplain's office-
ensure get to medical

Medical-
da- I am going to need a s#$% ton of vitamin -M
make sure they know they F- uped

Legal-
due to medical condition want to make sure politically correct command knows anything I do is because I am injured

And to make sure I am married to my GF so she does get to go and because the BAH is necessary to survive.. (geopolitical bachelor while she still gets BAH

Then I have to go to the gym regularly.. I have to make sure I am in better shape.. I have to go back to some old practices..

I have to be able to knock the s$%^ out of you younger genius's .. Your just smart enough to get yourself killed and more importantly you might get bright and find a way to get me killed..

Also most of you lack the morals necessary to be soldiers or sailors.. even the retired dumbarses need refresher courses...

Things like rape in the military
Theft of government devices


Once you have a smooth running operation.. you wait for the genius who thinks he is slick and can get past your methods..

You go to his or her rack and beat the ever loving crap out of them. Then you drag them out into the middle of the muster grounds and leave them as an example.. regardless of rank or position..

Next day, you have them lead an extreme PT with everyone knowing that they are responsible for everyone being out there..

I am not popular, but we are all coming back.. over our enemies dead bodies


EDIT

when this is over.. I am not signing discharge..
Back to legal..
due to nature of disability I am going to get a medical discharge...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Well, I'll be entirely honest here since it moves into the realm of the personal ..and a fair spot to go, given the topic at hand. My son just turned 13. He's got 5 years to be in the jackpot and Syria is just starting up in a serious way ...among other places. It's not theory to wonder as my wife and I have both, sadly, concluded.

What we have here is a fair to even chance given recent wars (Iraq and Afghan both in the 10+ year range) that if Syria sucks us in too, he'll come of age at the point where fighting may well be his to decide.

In the spirit of complete honestly, I'll share what my wife and I concluded on this, at least at this point. If selective service is reactivated to use the rolls for draft call up, then one of two things will happen. It'll depend on our discussion then. What we'll be discussing is two fold. What is the justification, in our minds, for the fight he's been called to join? Is it Vietnam Politics or are we facing fighting in our own streets..or worse...if we lose?

Based on the outcome of ^^^ That discussion, we'll DO one of two things. # 1). We'll help and support him in every way possible to join the Military (and I'd push hard for a voluntary into the AF or Navy before drafted as a Ground Pounder) with everything I can bring to bear in making his future as positive as possible for his return. Or... #2). Well help and support him in every way possible to meet and endure his jail term that he'll be required to serve instead of his place among those of his generation in a distant fight.

Running? Well... I'll help CATCH him, if my Son runs. Why? Two reasons... I'm teaching him how to be a man capable of walking with a tall posture who should never feel second to anyone else based on integrity or character. He'd lose it all in that action. Second? He'll have DESTROYED his future in SO many ways, it's hard to calculate. College? forget it.... Financial Aid is tied into initial checks on things like Selective Service. Gov't job all the way down to toilet washer in a public park? Forget it...... He won't even be allowed to clean the toilets of the system he ran from ...should that be the path taken.

edit on 26-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Thanks for shareing, thats a good infomative post.

So the route I would go basicaly.

Not running and standing your ground.

Originally posted by ripcontrol
I would be laughing

I would report smile and not argue


As soon as those morons told me I was re-enlisted..

"Respectfully request permission to go to chaplain's office"

can not deny it per DOD regs

"Respectfully request permission to go to Medical"

can not deny it per DOD regs

"Respectfully request permission to go to Legal"

can not deny it per DOD regs


Since its one hundred percent legal, they forced me back...they are gonna be stuck with the bill..

I am a disabled vet..

Chaplain's office-
ensure get to medical

Medical-
da- I am going to need a s#$% ton of vitamin -M
make sure they know they F- uped

Legal-
due to medical condition want to make sure politically correct command knows anything I do is because I am injured

And to make sure I am married to my GF so she does get to go and because the BAH is necessary to survive.. (geopolitical bachelor while she still gets BAH

Then I have to go to the gym regularly.. I have to make sure I am in better shape.. I have to go back to some old practices..

I have to be able to knock the s$%^ out of you younger genius's .. Your just smart enough to get yourself killed and more importantly you might get bright and find a way to get me killed..

Also most of you lack the morals necessary to be soldiers or sailors.. even the retired dumbarses need refresher courses...

Things like rape in the military
Theft of government devices


Once you have a smooth running operation.. you wait for the genius who thinks he is slick and can get past your methods..

You go to his or her rack and beat the ever loving crap out of them. Then you drag them out into the middle of the muster grounds and leave them as an example.. regardless of rank or position..

Next day, you have them lead an extreme PT with everyone knowing that they are responsible for everyone being out there..

I am not popular, but we are all coming back.. over our enemies dead bodies


EDIT

when this is over.. I am not signing discharge..
Back to legal..
due to nature of disability I am going to get a medical discharge...

edit on 26-6-2013 by ripcontrol because: Patriotism isnt dead, it is just wearing its cami's out in field with its 50 cal

[/quote


So you would sign up just so you could bully the recruits.

reply to post by Boscov


Haha! Thanks for putting words in my mouth and projecting your assumptions on to me. I suppose you think I should join up and go try to fight another Iraq, or Afganistan, or a Vietnam for the bankers?

Shall I now assume you're a banker and are trying to make me feel bad because I won't help you gain more credits to play your derivatives games? Or are you an oil man who wants to go steal some other countries' resources? A drug dealer who saw a nice field of poppies some where?

I won't assume those things. I will just assume you're a person who jumps to conclusions based on their own assumptions.

Works both ways.

If there were people invading my home- I would protect my home. I would not protect this government.

"What red blooded American would pass up the opportunity rape, pillage, and kill the Godless hoards before they invade the homeland." This tried and true ruse to get the youth to march off to war has worked in the past and will continue to work with the mostly brain dead, video addicted, fantasy lovers, "we're No.1" shouting, sport worshiping American males.

The scripted unemployment will insure a healthy bounty of cannon fodder. We don't need no stinkin draft; just wrap the package up in patriotic red, white and blue, have Kid Rock write the anthems and off they'll go.

Does anyone actually think the military industrial complex hasn't figured this all out long ago? They have entire university departments, think tanks, independent contractors, media machines devoted to the manipulation of us. Independent, critical thinking went out of style with the Ford Falcon.

ATS isn't a good cross section of American culture; only a bunch of loony geeks that can read frequent this goofy site.

God help us!!!

reply to post by Hushabye


You sure told me. Yep, you just verified my assumption. Not a patriot, definitely not, and get this straight, this is not only your government, it is our government. You are only willing to protect yourself. How about your neighbor, your community, your city, your state?

Now I will help you with your assumption. I am a son, a husband, a father, a friend, a citizen, and a patriot. I work hard for a living and am willing to fight to protect myself, my family, and my fellow contributing citizens and their families. I do not respect zealots who tell me they only care about themselves and their homes.

reply to post by crazyewok


Quit being a fuzzy crazy ewok

stick to crazy ewok


Its called training.. Bullying is when you do it for personal pleasure and gain

You may not like what you hear, but it is necessary..

I left out the balancing act that is there.. So it does not become bullying
it is a definition that is needed-

simple damage done for pleasure to government equipment is not training

damage done to maintain unit integrity and correctly repair government property is training..



Their is not enough space here to put the rule book I operate by on this... I will say this.. your facing 2 issues

1)tards, climbers, and clock punchers

2)unit survival and cohesion- spelled discipline
which will be maintain


Take the earlier mention of rape-
do you have any idea how much this issue alone is mishandled
commands bury it
ostercise the female
and convince upper command to go alone

Sorry I do not appreciate someone who has not handled these issues tring to claim I am being a bully.. (especially when the NCO bury the issue because its there friend)

No thank you I am being a monster!

You see all these issues go back to a singular one.. Discipline and its lack there of... The way its run is to show pure darwinism and ruthlessness..

I am not going to sugar coat the issue for you or anyone else...

the whole reason is that nine times out of ten the disciplined soldier or sailor comes back alive.. For those who do decide to not fight.. (the idea of choosing a branch before predraft is VERY SMART!!!!- how ever as former NAVY I say go air force- food is better and the women are easier.. Thats right cray e add in sexism to my bll as well..)





Now that we remember the simple rule of total discipline.. every other issue falls in line...

Take for instance.. I always treated the men and women in my command the same.. I know because I had an argument with the EEO officer.. She was not happy when my right hand man pimped slapped her..

(by the way right hand man was mountain woman from Carolina north.. the EEO landed hard.. )



What you perceive as bullying from a soft civilized PC ness pov is called zero tolerance for discipline failure...


Please remember every one I influenced has not died in their time of service.. 100 percent survival rate knock on wood..

for those of you whose family get drafted and end up in a command i HAve taken over... I will be doing my best to make sure we are all coming home...

I will fight dirty but be well trained.. You see their are a lot of place you can hide in the military.. I intend to be hiding there with my friends and those I am responsible.. however if we get stuck in a situation we will be able to kill everyone in our way...


I want those who are PCing this conversation to think over this scenario...

Would your child be able to survive a walk through the worst gehtto in the world to go to the store and back?

now think over your answer...

you will get two categories of answers..

1) yes-
you know why, because those kids have been properly trained to deal with the situation and all the assorted answers..

2)no
the child is not ready
the parent gets an f for failure

this issue is very touchy but goes to this last question
children of one will not need as much correction and will be relied upon

children of two will have there mommy come crying because training is to hard... its the children of two that ruin commands and nations

ps.. I was drafted not signed up

please note title of OP

@ crazy ewok...

You're good at this game! Guess what- the continent I live on is my home. I'll damn well defend Canada as well, if I have to- but not this government. Where, by the way did I say that this way my government? You should really stop putting words into other peoples' mouths. You might be a lot happier if you stopped that and stopped projecting your feelings onto others.

I'm done with you, kiddo. Enjoy the summer!

Originally posted by Boscov
reply to post by Hushabye

 

You sure told me. Yep, you just verified my assumption. Not a patriot, definitely not, and get this straight, this is not only your government, it is our government. You are only willing to protect yourself. How about your neighbor, your community, your city, your state?

Now I will help you with your assumption. I am a son, a husband, a father, a friend, a citizen, and a patriot. I work hard for a living and am willing to fight to protect myself, my family, and my fellow contributing citizens and their families. I do not respect zealots who tell me they only care about themselves and their homes.

reply to post by ripcontrol


You're scaring the kids man,
Accurate but they haven't got the depth of the concept down,how could they. They have never challenged them selves above their environment to the level of combatants and as such ,I suppose ,it is left to vets like us to tell them the truth regardless of how pitifully they define it.

The world will decide what it will do not us. We only have to adapt to what happens with what we know.
We know war.
Avoid it ,if you can't do it,be good at math.