Extraterrestrial hypothesis vs Jacques Vallee

reply to post by The GUT


I don't need to post pages of UFO documentation because I do not have the time for that but if you look for quite good threads started by people who post endless documentation on cases that suggest extraterrestrial, do I need to cite or start posting sources, what has been done many times? If I start posting all posted by others it would not be needed, this is a summary of all documented so far - many for extraterrestrial vs few also without logic for coverup regarding plasma beings or spirits...

In order to be most objective, I do not exclude dimensions may be used but currently it's so much in defense of EBEs that really - such alternative sources are like a distraction. What should I do other than say it - people already post enough cases without me. Also nice ad hominem.

reply to post by ImpactoR
Awww, Impy, you know Gut loves ya!

But I still stand by my assertion that without detailing why you believe--or lean towards your theory--you do nothing to further the discussion. In the past, you have--at times--posted some very good thoughts on the subject that had some true depth to them. I just want to encourage you to do more of that.

Btw: Your English, while always good, has gotten really good. Starting to get hard to tell it's not your native tongue.

What i´m going to say bellow might sound ridiculous or the thoughts of a very mentally-ill person.
Take it as you like.

As some have already pointed out, I think we live in an extremely advanced simulation.

Our reality generates (and is fed) from an outer reality, that for the sake of argument i´ll call it the Matrix. The simulation we live on is run by post-human/future humans or some other type of entity.

So, UFO´s and entities that show up on our reality (simulation) are a deliberate manifestation from the "beings" that run this simulation. That´s why both craft and their occupants seem impervious to the physics of our reality.

The variety of sightings (shape, size, "species") could attributed to the decisions made outside our reality.
That´s the "look" they chose to manifest on our reality (their simulation).

Not all humans here are "really live humans". Some of us (humans) are the physical manifestation of beings from the Matrix (the outside and "real reality"), and are here in order to perfect themselves interacting with others and with this reality.

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by The GUT


I've had more than 15 years of English, I have proven that with exams, my writings on exams have got high scores, I was in shape much more several years ago but either way, I prove it outside this forum, I do not need to prove it to anyone here - for example one member criticized me once and asked that I use a translator because my writing was horrible - lol I do not even try to write an essay to have some consecutive thoughts per paragraph, so like I said criticizing means nothing to me here. Thanks for the compliment but it sounded as if I am some newbie who just starts learning English.. Unless you make some less obvious jokes.

Also I am seeing something new every week or two, whether from threads here by karl or others, I've watched lots of shows and documentaries about UFO cases, some of them are so known to me that it gets painful to hear or read about them again. So I am not speaking from my arse, by never reading anything and shooting random thoughts but I evaluate and make my own conclusion. I am not serious or deep into the topic but I've had observation over many cases to make conclusions about what is more obvious:

You are saying I need to prove examples when I am saying all I've observed so far is much more likely than 'spirits' or 'demons'. So if I started linking all threads with more serious cases, that would somehow differ from saying - look at the threads where a SOLID object and technology is reported? I could but you can see this yourself in all threads around this one by people who bring useful information about cases from the 20th century.

I am not saying any of those cases is 100% proof, I am not a believer to think they ARE when it is still questionable, I am only saying there are many cases with objects that represent technology, so it's times more likely than spirits, demons or light beings...

reply to post by ImpactoR


Don't look now but there are people with nowhere to go but down the Platonist Epistemology road.
See here:
www.nrgnair.com...
The standard policy since 1945 is Platonist Epistemology ever since Tesla found out everything
we ever wanted to know about power, energy the stars and the cross between material and
ether worlds and people don't like it.
You however sound to fit in the Aristotelian Epistemology sector.
I don't recall if Epistemology is defined on that page so here is a sample:
www.google.com...

Basically they sound like they can't make up their mind one way or another because
the belief systems seem counter opposed.
I suppose the reasons of 'national secrets' give them the right to denounce the work of Tesla
who saw what he did and told everyone.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


I do not belong to any belief system, I am evaluating the existing data. I do not believe and I am not fan of dimensions but I accept such possibility because some data suggests so. Either way arguing that there are light beings or critters on the background of all data that suggests rather solid objects is like taking 10 stones and saying they are wooden. Plain dumb.

Originally posted by ImpactoR
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

I do not belong to any belief system, I am evaluating the existing data. I do not believe and I am not fan of dimensions but I accept such possibility because some data suggests so. Either way arguing that there are light beings or critters on the background of all data that suggests rather solid objects is like taking 10 stones and saying they are wooden. Plain dumb.

It's really interesting to see how you've "grown" here, ImpactoR, and have expanded your views of possibilities. I, too, owe the denizens of ATS a big thumbs up for helping me pursue some rather interesting directions.

You make, however, a lot of 'either/or' statements that don't, at times, reflect what folk have written. For example, I don't discount the ETH as a possibility. However, I do find the arguments of the ETH vs IDH very compelling in favor of some form of the IDH.

For example, I don't call the nuts and bolts observers "liars" in any way, shape, or form. I do, though, question the VAST variety of different "craft" that are described in the literature. Don't you take it into consideration--or think it odd--that SO many different craft are described? For the openminded yet thinking man, it seems to me that that fact alone raises some questions.

Are we being visited by that many different civilizations? Where's the evidence in that case?

Btw: My comment on your superior skills as english-as-your-second-language was a sincere compliment. I had 4 years of Spanish and have nowhere near your admirable skillz.

To reiterate: Your viewpoint has expanded greatly since your early days here...I bet that will continue. Have you read any of Vallee's books? Maybe you aren't totally familiar with the argument or the compelling questions he raises as regards the ETH?

reply to post by ImpactoR


All you have to know is one source of light from air is possible.
The ship hull is pounded by air that explodes in light.

The fact that electricity flows in an even finer material is not in question.
Gas light bulbs of slight evacuation will shine.

With heavy duty waves to lift ships the air outside was predicted to shine bright.

No ETs or spirits or made up reasons required however there are for those who
wish to continue without knowing how things are done for UFOs.

Vallee mentioned 74 times

in that book that has him going to Russia in the 60s. This may have been connected with the
book by Timothy Good that was also mentioned. Not an expert on Vallee but I figure he has
as little evidence of working ships as the rest of us which he can't reveal anyway so the best
policy is keep any messenger going on the policy dictated by the doctorate writers that
script most of what is going on.

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by g2v12
As you likely know, Hynek was privy to the highest classified evidence of UFO studies by the Air Force.

Just the first in a long line of misstatements inherent in your post. Not to say that some of your thoughts are without merit, however, because I think they are.

Back to the point though: Can you show that Hynek was, "privy to the highest classified evidence of UFO studies by the Air Force?"

I seriously doubt that he was "let in" on anything. He was, however, apparently hired for the specific job of debunking before wising up and charting his own course.

Greetings GUT. Its been some time since we've sparred. As for your doubts that Dr. Hynek was privy to highly classified UFO reports, he unabashedly stated that in order to retain access to official UFO reports, he could not afford to risk an open confrontation with the Air Force.

Ufologists had usually branded Hynek as an unassertive personality because of his willingness to brandish the official bureaucratic mantra. Nevertheless, and according to his own words, his cooperation in the Air Force program gave him an unprecedented opportunity to personally view whatever was reported. Agree or disagree as you please, I've done my homework.

reply to post by meaningless333

Mental illness is relative... usually. I'll jump off with you for a minute.

That said, and as this topic is not really off topic, I feel that what you outlined, that we are in a very detailed simulation with intrusions from the outer "reality" happening very rarely (or at least rarely in such a startling manner) is quite possible and would provide answers to many of these "weird" things.

Most religion states this idea to some degree, if you bend the definition of terms used, like "heaven" and "gods" to "outer reality" and "programmer/s." I also have a "feeling" this is the case sometimes, whatever that means.

So where does that leave us, if such has a relative truth to it. A whole epistemological / existential can of infinite worms is opened! Fun!

We're still "here," wherever "here" is, for now at least. And we still have to interact with others, whether or not they are NPC's or programmers/gamers. I know more than a few folks who are poorly coded, to say the least. I'm also not egotistical enough to state that there's no way that I'm nothing more than a very long string of code. Actually, in the state I exist in right now, with DNA, that's precisely what I am whether or not the simulated reality postulate is correct.

But heck, it's a neat, enlightened view... as long as one doesn't "lose it" and do anything because "Hey, this ain't real! I can flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy... splat" and that's because it IS real in the sense that we are affected by actions in the here and now.

The nature of a good simulation is to make the participant unsure of it's nature. I assume, if I'm not a generated personality, that I opted into the sim for a reason... so I'll play along until my lives run out.

And heck, the way we are going, there are going to be such simulations in the near future... double fun.

It always gets me wondering what the precursor reality would be like... at the end of the near infinite chain of realities couched in realities... what does the original reality look like? What are it's properties, physical laws, origins? Heh... glad they programmed alcohol and stuff.

reply to post by ImpactoR

I do not belong to any belief system

There is nothing to belong to. We either know something one way or the other way.

All epistemologies are classified as either Platonist, or Aristotelian.

as stated here
www.nrgnair.com...
there are two major ways to wind up with ETs doing anything.
ET knowledge must be arrived at by Platonist, or Aristotelian methods.
And perhaps not a mixture by tossing in Aristotelian determination for one fact.

www.google.com...
which means how we learn not what we believe in.
That is how we get to the beliefs we have.

So for some ET considerations are

Platonist Epistemology are mystical flaky, and/or totalitarian,

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


You seem to rule out the likelihood that fallen angels et al

may pilot such tangible craft.

I think that's a foolhardy assumption unwarranted by the evidence. Evidently Dr Jacques Vallee also believes that regardless of what percentage of craft are tangible, the pilots are likely evil entities from an evil spiritual dimension.

If "spiritual" troubles some, maybe "irregularly intangible" would work . . . or . . . "tangible in selected dimensions" . . . or . . . "tangible at will."

reply to post by JayinAR


Ah, yes, the "no response"... I don't know how many times I've spent a great deal of time formulating a post and waited impatiently for a response from the person I was addressing, only to be frustrated and made to feel inconsequential. One reason I almost never give anything away here.

Vallee theories are redundant, theories of 'mystical' and 'paranormal' beings and 'beings from another dimension'. It adds a layer of mystery unnecessarily.

It doesn't really mean anything. If there's something there it's physical and has physical properties like you and me. We might not understand all the laws of the universe but that doesn't mean that IT/THEY operate outside of the laws of the universe either. They are simply more advanced than us technologically wise.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I think we know the place for fallen angles.
According to Christian attitudes man is free to roam the Earth on the way to heaven
without too much hindrance from evil forces but lack of knowledge is a problem.
Why rule out all the German pilot trainers and US pilots since 1945 in New Mexico for starters.

Dr Jacques Vallee has apparently tapped every Platonist Epistemology answer to UFOs except
consulting a true light source researcher and one that predicted a super ship and actually can't
start now cause the historical and scientific path to the Tesla ship UFO has been done by
someone else.

Ether light is apparently the physical mechanism of angel apparitions due to voltage and
frequency levels obtained by the spirit. The light, voltage and frequency relationship determined
by Tesla.

Atoms are high voltage containers of electrons whose quantum jumps emit light. Humans atoms
thus contain the ether spirit under eventual control of final justice.

reply to post by ManInAsia


Many people on Earth do not know how to fly airplanes.
Still fewer know how to fly the UFO ships.
There is no need to assume the suggestions of the Illuminati rule makers.
The Illuminati control a large part of our education and will never tell us even the
slightest hint of UFO ship control.

I think there are people that know the advanced UFO technology and the ET talk
and otherwise confused writers help to hide the truth.

Just thought I'd give this thread a little bump, as I love this song, and think it worth exposing to those on ATS who may not have seen it before.

originally posted by: cuckooold
Just thought I'd give this thread a little bump, as I love this song, and think it worth exposing to those on ATS who may not have seen it before.

Aww thanks man. It is one of my favorite vids I have made on weird topics I enjoy.

Thanks for the bump!

Hugs!

MM

originally posted by: JayinAR
reply to post by EnPassant

 

Great point.
The reasoning is that they have been here forever, "appearing in whatever form we are willing to accept at the time". So, following from there, it is safe to assume they are no longer studying. They are taking.

You can also assume that it isn't very difficult for them to get here.

Plus, Vallee ignores evidence. Testimony from whistleblowers and abductees who clearly state that these things come from other planets.

Of course, the beings could be lying, but there is no way to know that.
It could also be a combination of the two.

false.. Vallee also interviewd some of these 'whistleblowers' and found them wanting.

read the vallee's interview with Cooper for example

and Vallee also involved with Barbara Bartholic for certain time period , she is one of the leading lady in abduction scene, she was abducted herself before