What is that "the christian god"?

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Circular logic. You assume god is angry at us because he sent Jesus, he sent Jesus because he is angry at us, he is angry at us because he sent Jesus, he sent Jesus because he is angry at us, ad infinitum.

Your whole argument is based on presuppositions. Where did Jesus ever say god was mad at us and that he required a sacrifice?

Matthew 9
13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Go learn what it means, because you believe the opposite of its meaning.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No. God is angry at us because literally at every turn He brought His wrath down upon His Children. Read the Old Testament and see how Israel disobeyed God CONSTANTLY, and as a result, not only were the Jews put under the submission of the Babylonians, but the Roman Empire, and had not one but TWO temples utterly destroyed, all of which were prophecies as God punishing Israel.

WE are all now children of God, Jew and Gentile both. Therefore, it isn't just Israel under God's judgement, it's every single one of us.

Jesus understood this when He wept over Jerusalem, just as Jeremiah wept for the Jews. But Jesus tells us that there will come a day when "all tears will be wiped away" and a glorious new Earth will be established.

God's wrath isn't evident because Jesus came. God's wrath was ALWAYS evident, but the Jews didn't want to understand that. That's why when Jesus came and told them how they were all sinners and must repent, they tried to stone him, throw him off of a cliff, and finally had him crucified.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

...

...You're specifying for reasons of taking it out of context.

I think everyone takes their little religious texts and take them out of context and twist them to fit their beliefs and agendas. Just follow the laws of creation.

And in regards to the "Holy Trinity", this is in regards to us humans, our souls, and the tuning device that bridges them.

reply to post by Skada


The "laws of creation" you speak of are in the Bible. The only people taking God's Word out of context are people interjecting their own personal presuppositions and ego into reading and understanding Scripture. It's the very reason we have 20,000 different interpretations of the Bible.

The Bible interprets itself, and if it is allowed to do so, there would only be one interpretation. Nothing would be taken out of context ever.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


So why did god choose the Israelites if he KNEW they were going to disobey him? Because he just felt like punishing people?

Jesus said he did not require sacrifice, so why did he require sacrifice?

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


The bible interprets itself... by having pastors interpret it for hundreds of people every Sunday.

Everybody says that THEY have the correct interpretation, including you. Funny how that works isn't it?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

So why did god choose the Israelites if he KNEW they were going to disobey him? Because he just felt like punishing people?

Jesus said he did not require sacrifice, so why did he require sacrifice?

Not all Israelites disobeyed Him. That's the key. It's just like some accept Jesus, most reject Jesus. There is a mystery of predestination that cannot be totally understood, but one thing we do know: God foreknew you, He foreknew me, and everything about us. If God is sovereign, then everything is already decided upon. It is through the many's disobedience that the few's obedience shines through. We love God more because most others hate God.

Jesus didn't require a sacrifice, because He was going to be the final, ultimate sacrifice. His sacrifice therefore abolished God's commandment for animal sacrifice. God called for animal sacrifice up until Jesus's birth, life, death, and resurrection.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


A good pastor lets the Bible interpret itself. Listen to men like RC Sproul, John Piper, John MacArthur, Paul Washer. Or even read works by earlier Christians like John Calvin, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, or Soren Kierkegaard. Or early church fathers like St. Augustine, Polycarp, Justin Martyr. ALL of these men let the Bible interpret itself, not one of them interjects their own personal opinions into Scripture.

Compare them to false preachers like Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, and T.D. Jakes, and you'll see EXACTLY what I mean.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Jesus NEVER advocated violence. Except, of course, if we're dealing with a rebellious, mouthy teenager, who needs to be stoned, or when we're told to take up our sword. We can presume that he meant a literal sword, because Peter was armed with one, and used it, to cut off the ear of the slave who came to arrest Jesus.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

Jesus NEVER advocated violence. Except, of course, if we're dealing with a rebellious, mouthy teenager, who needs to be stoned, or when we're told to take up our sword. We can presume that he meant a literal sword, because Peter was armed with one, and used it, to cut off the ear of the slave who came to arrest Jesus.

Jesus only advocated defending yourself or others. Jesus told His apostles after their first missionary works (after telling them to only take one staff, one tunic, no food, and no sword) to buy a sword if they didn't have one already.

Again, you're talking about Old Testament laws that were required by God for a certain time, a certain place, a certain people. Christians are no longer even under the Ten Commandments, so how can we call for stoning people based on Mosaic law?

And what did Jesus do when Peter cut off the man's ear? He healed it and rebuked Paul by saying, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword."

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Skada

 

The "laws of creation" you speak of are in the Bible. The only people taking God's Word out of context are people interjecting their own personal presuppositions and ego into reading and understanding Scripture. It's the very reason we have 20,000 different interpretations of the Bible.

The Bible interprets itself, and if it is allowed to do so, there would only be one interpretation. Nothing would be taken out of context ever.

The laws of creation are also in Wicca and pagan religions that predate Christianity.

The bible does NOT interpret itself, never had, never will. It contradicts itself at every turn because of the control that they put into the texts.

Ego is a problem. Also, your signature is a problem, "Slave to Christ". Christ doesn't want or need a slave. He wanted/wants you to help your fellow man, and lift them up to where they finally KNOW and REMEMBER WHO AND WHAT THEY TRULY ARE, and that is an all powerful creator experiencing and learning through the genetic space suit. Christ was trying to teach Quantum Physics to a bunch of nomads. Create your day, know how to ask what you want. Ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be open unto you.

We just didn't know the formula until now.
What we ask for we receive: Statement/intention: I want more money. Universal response: Okay, here you go, I will give you the experience of WANTING more money.

Statement/intention: Money comes easily and frequently. Universal response: Okay, I will give you the experience of money coming easily and frequently.

Another secret: It really works this way.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

And what did Jesus do when Peter cut off the man's ear? He healed it and rebuked Paul by saying, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword."

The Bible is full of contradictions.

God never changes, he just changes his mind.

Originally posted by Skada
The bible does NOT interpret itself, never had, never will. It contradicts itself at every turn because of the control that they put into the texts..

Provide contradictions and I would happily shoot them down for you.

Originally posted by Skada
Christ doesn't want or need a slave.

No man can be a slave to two masters. (Matthew 6:24)

The word for slave is the Greek word doulos, which is used 130 times in the New Testament. Most of these instances, the word has been translated incorrectly as "servant" or "bondservant", but doulos can only ever mean slave because it has never meant anything else BUT slave.

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh with fear and trembling in the sincerity of your heart as to Christ, not by way of eye service, not just when they’re looking as men pleasers, but as slaves of Christ doing the will of God from the heart. (Ephesians 6:5)

For he who is called by the Lord as a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called as a free man is Christ's slave. (1 Corinthians 7:22)

His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master. (Matthew 25:21)

for you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God in your body. (1 Corinthians 6:20)

Without understanding that Christ is our LORD and Savior, our MASTER and Redeemer, you will not understand fully what the purpose of Christ's sacrifice was. We were BOUGHT AND PAID FOR by the blood of the Lamb. We are owned, outright, period, by Christ Jesus.

reply to post by windword


Okay. If the Bible is "full of contradictions", I'm sure you wouldn't have any trouble finding one or two to show me, would you? Go ahead.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Provide contradictions and I would happily shoot them down for you.

How about "Thou Shall Not Kill" Then "God" orders his people to go out and kill.

reply to post by windword


This is like talking to a brick wall. All this person does is provide quotes from a corrupted translation of a an ancient text and has no novel ideas of their own. This person is trapped by their own religion and will not budge out of F.E.A.R.

I'm disengaging from this conversation as it is going no where. I advise you to do the same.

reply to post by windword


The commandment is "Thou shalt not murder", which is a far cry from "kill". Murder and kill, though not mutually exclusive, have different implications.

Things that do not fall under this commandment are death penalties, in warfare, and if someone intrudes in your home.

31 Then the king commanded Benaiah, “Do as he says. Strike him down and bury him, and so clear me and my whole family of the guilt of the innocent blood that Joab shed. 32 The Lord will repay him for the blood he shed, because without my father David knowing it he attacked two men and killed them with the sword. Both of them—Abner son of Ner, commander of Israel’s army, and Amasa son of Jether, commander of Judah’s army—were better men and more upright than he. 33 May the guilt of their blood rest on the head of Joab and his descendants forever. But on David and his descendants, his house and his throne, may there be the Lord’s peace forever.” (1 Kings 2:31-33)

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 20:10-18)

Also Exodus 22 on protection of property.

reply to post by Skada


Provide no evidence for claims of contradiction and then insult the Bible. It's alright. Because it seems this "corrupted translation of an ancient text" is crushing every argument you provide.



I'll pray for you.

Originally posted by Angle
So, HA HA HA, there are people around here, who claim being "christians" and having a "christian god".

1. Fact: God is god, and God adressed often in the Bible, is God adressed in the Qu'ran.

moeHA HA HA; then you have these same ones, 'christians', spouting... your "islamic" god blablablabla all nonsense about it, my "christian god" is so much better.

MKAY

The bible as well as the Qu'ran both say there is only one god, mainly God.

I'll be on my guard..

edit on 18-6-2013 by Angle because: (no reason given)

God is not simply "god". There are many and I will respect a Christian when he or she tells me that my gods are nothing like theirs. I agree.

The simple fact is that all the Abrahamic faiths are talking about the same god but they are of different religions with different prophets and messiahs. When somebody says the "Christian god" as opposed to the "Muslim god" or "Jewish god", they are making a distinction of how he's worshiped.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


What Bible do you use? From the King James Bible:

13 ¶ Thou shalt not kill.

Come on now................