What is that "the christian god"?

reply to post by Deetermined

Considering that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God

Jesus was the son of god, or that was my understanding.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Angle

 

...
See, Christians don't have to kill people trying to convert them. Muslims don't play well with other religions, however.

You are forgetting the crusades and the inquisition. That was not a peaceful time for Christianity.

So, the same can be said for any "religion". In fact there are just 4 laws of the universe, just four. They are thus:
Number One: You exist.
Number Two: The One is The All, The All are The One.
Number Three: What you put out is what you get back.
Number Four: Everything changes except the first three laws.
__________
1: your spirit exists and will always exist
2: The God particle makes up everything, we are all connected
3: golden rule; karma; rule of three
4: only constant is change.
__________
Why are we have a discussion on which religion is better then the other? They are all based on these 4 laws. My rule of thumb: if it takes away freedom, it is not true. If it promotes freedom and spiritual growth; it is true.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


God is one being which exist as three persons, God and a son and a holy spirit. God is able to do that as God was able to do creation and there is nothing what God couldnt do.. this is what Christians believe and therefor Jesus is a God as one of these three persons presenting the God. This is also why Christians and Muslims do not have the same God.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Christ offers redemption. That is to say, every single one of us are sinners who deserve to burn in Hell for a long, long time. We're corrupt, evil, depraved, enslaved by greed, lust, and hate. If we were brought into a court of law, we'd be found guilty in a heartbeat for our evil thoughts, words, and actions. We're all fallen, and God wouldn't be unjust for punishing any of us.

What a sad, pathetic and disgusting view of humanity. And you're charged with spreading the "good news"?

But the atonement of Christ's blood is the shelter of God's wrath upon us.

If Jesus IS God, then how is this statement logical. Did Jesus sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself, is own wrath?

Originally posted by ObservingYou

'God' as in 'God most high' - is beyond any Christian or Muslim comprehension.

But not Jews, definitely not beyond the Jewish comprehension of God.....I kid.

reply to post by Skada


There are ill doings in every Abrahamic religions, some dates back in many centuries and still a lot happens in modern age. Lets not forget the genocide of Armenian people where muslims attacked and killed christian families, raped and sex slaved young girls (still children) for many years. This happened during and after World War I, that is not so long ago.

What kind of God can accept that.. that God is not Christian God.

reply to post by Skada


You're forgetting that the Bible doesn't advocate anything that happened in the Inquisition or the Crusades, but the Quran absolutely condones violent activity.

reply to post by windword


Do you even know what the Good News implies? Christ came to redeem us. Why? Because God is angry with us. Christ intercedes in Heaven. He advocates for us. Christ died so that God's anger would be lifted from us. THAT'S the Good News. How else am I going to spread the Good News? By saying everything is okay, everybody is alright, just believe in whatever you want to believe and God will accept you anyways?

Sorry. God's Word says something different, so I'm going with the Bible, and not human opinion.

"Did Jesus sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself, is own wrath?"

Yep.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


I don't recall any scripture in which Jesus claims that God is angry with "us" (humanity) . Please provide citation.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Skada

 

You're forgetting that the Bible doesn't advocate anything that happened in the Inquisition or the Crusades, but the Quran absolutely condones violent activity.

I do hope you can read:

Qu'ran: "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

Please prove things otherwise, like you said.

I think you are one that tries to fight them, as many of you. You fill yourself with lies making your acts so called righteous. Do not talk about things you don't know. You've just been very lame FTWR.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Skada

 

You're forgetting that the Bible doesn't advocate anything that happened in the Inquisition or the Crusades, but the Quran absolutely condones violent activity.

Wrong. Check your Old Testament.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

I don't recall any scripture in which Jesus claims that God is angry with "us" (humanity) . Please provide citation.

Yet, God has been angry about men/women very often.

reply to post by windword


The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29)

The name "Lame of God" is a reference to the Passover lamb, whose blood was used to mark the houses of the Jews during the day of Passover (Exodus 12), so that the spirit of death would pass over that particular house.

24 Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (Romans 3:24-26).

2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

4 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins (1 John 4:10).

That word, "propitiation", means in a Christian sense a literal appeasing of God's wrath. In other words, manifested in some way when Jesus looked over Jerusalem and wept, Jesus knew God's wrath would befall upon Jerusalem (which it did, as it had been done many times). This is also manifest in the "weeping prophet" Jeremiah, whose eyes God wept through for His children. What's even worse, the Jews were so filthy and unrighteous in that time, that not even Jeremiah escaped persecution by them.

Christ's sacrifice was that propitiation. God hates sin, He cannot even look upon sin. When Jesus cried out on the cross, "Why have you forsaken me?", it was because at that moment Jesus took on all sins of the world, past, present, and future, and was so embroiled with the sins of mankind that not even his Father in Heaven could look upon him.

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

reply to post by Angle


That is Eye-for-an-eye talk there. Again, refer to the 3rd law. What you put out is what you get back.

When we die, and go for the life review, there is no harsher judge then our own soul. If the religion promotes taking of free will (power) and giving it to another soul, it is not true. I think that blows most religions out of the water, in my humble opinion. We could argue over this until we die and find out for real, until then it is just belief.

reply to post by Angle


Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." In other words, violence is a virtue, and contradicts the claim that violence is only for self-defense. The audience clearly wasn't under attack at the time of this statement. The Hadith tells us that this verse was narrated when Muhammed was motivating his followers into raiding caravans for loot.

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Or maybe this refers to a spiritual struggle? Lol

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

reply to post by windword


Wrong. The Old Testament is the shadow of the New.

Edit: Also, the most religious followers of the Old Testament law, the Pharisees and the Sadducee, were frequently called hypocrites and dogs by Christ.

38“You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’39“But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.40“If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.41“Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.42“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Christ was referencing Exodus 21, in which it was said that:

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


None of those quotes are attributed to Jesus nor do they prove that God is mad at humantiy, whom he supposed created.

Psalms 82
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Does this sound like God is angry with the down trodden? Who is responsible for the foundations of the earth being out of course? God or humanity?

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


What does that quote have to do with the justification for the Crusades and the Inquisition?

Deuteronomy 20:
10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13 And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

There are lot more commands like this one, in which "God's" followers are urged into war upon unbelievers.

Is this NOT the same God as your God called Jesus?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

None of those quotes are attributed to Jesus nor do they prove that God is mad at humantiy, whom he supposed created.

Psalms 82
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Does this sound like God is angry with the down trodden? Who is responsible for the foundations of the earth being out of course? God or humanity?

If God isn't mad at humanity, why did He send Jesus to die for our sins? Does God love sin? If God isn't mad at humanity, then why are there many who are condemned to Hell? In fact, MOST people are condemned to Hell, because "the way is narrow" that leads to GOd.

Is God angry with the downtrodden? You're specifying for reasons of taking it out of context. God calls for us to help everybody. But it is God who is the ultimate judge and executioner of His rule and wrath. God's glory is made manifest in His love AND wrath both, you can't have one without the other.

If God is willing to evoke His wrath upon His own children (Israel), then what do you think He has planned for every other sinner? What? God picks and chooses what sins are bad and revokes His wrath from certain people because of their position in life?

How would that be fair?

reply to post by windword


God's followers at that time were His children (the Jews). He led them to the Promised Land, gave them laws to keep order, and gave them rules of worship. God was specific: Do these things, don't do these things, and you will prosper and rule forever.

What did they do? They began to interject pagan idol worship, they turned away from God, they cavorted with Satanic influences. The history of Israel is one long tragic story of God being sad and angry with them for what they did constantly.

When Jesus came, He didn't do so to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Upon the cross, when Christ "gave up the ghost", what happened? Many strange natural phenomenon took place, including the Herodian Temple (Second Temple) shaking, and it says that the "curtain of the temple was torn in two."

Now, what does that mean? What is the curtain?

The curtain was the only thing keeping the rest of the temple from the Holiest of Holies. The Holiest of Holies was the most sacred place of the temple, where the throne of God (the Ark of the Covenant) was positioned. By the curtains of the temple being torn in two, this was the literal and symbolic opening of God to both Jew and Gentile, and the establishment of the New Covenant.

This New Covenant is not just with Jews. It is also with Gentiles. The Mosaic Law now is merely a shadow of Christ's coming in body to act as a propitiation for our sins against the Father.

WE are not the children of Israel, therefore, WE are not beholden to go around invading people for God. God doesn't decree that of us, and Jesus preached the exact opposite.