I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

reply to post by jiggerj


"the Big Bang" man that's high tech stuff right there... very complex and scientific wording I might add. It sounds like something below kindergarten level speech trying to explain such a complex thing.

tell us again just exactly what is a "big bang" ?

facts are many... truth is one!

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The study of astrology reveals a fine example of the practical application of fractal geometry.

(I have been waiting to jump back into this thread for the past 30 pages or so, but I seem to have lost the plot of the conversation.)

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
That doesn't make sense.

Forever asking for explanation's and elaboration.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Do not know what is happening in the 4-9 D, what their rules of engagement are.

The pursuit of the souls.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

4) Deities often represent something we wish we could be. They represent perfection, capability, invulnerability, beauty, everything that we would imagine to be plentiful and intrinsic in a utopian world with utopian species. a significant portion of our fascination with, and adoration for, deities stems from our insecurities as a result of being weak, finite, ignorant creatures. We're not satisfied with what we are, so we worship what we want to be in the hopes that if we wish for it hard and long enough, we will eventually be it. And even if that never happens, we'll never be foolish enough to be satisfied with what we are now.

Toward that end, I advocate the appreciation and recognition of what we are. Just because we're imperfect doesn't make us worthless. Just because we're weak in some ways doesn't mean we're not vastly powerful in others. Belief and worship of deities discourages us from such a stance because we are forever in the shadow of that which we admire.

THIS
IS
BRILLIANT.

Thanks, AI, for stating your case so calmly and succinctly. I like to read your posts when they are written like this, rather than simply showing your anger and frustration (which you do quite well, also). Well done. BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Serdgiam

Really, every ideology will need to expand if that is the case, which all points to the same idea I concluded. That every individual ideology was just one "bubble" in something like the eye of a fly. Even more amazing was the fact these were all simultaneously sustained in the same medium/universe. The very existence of that vast diversity points to a pretty incredible system, whether it is called God, the Universe, or All That Is.. we are all looking at the same awe-inspiring event.

THIS
TOO
IS
BRILLIANT.

Wow, you guys are amazing. This is what I love about ATS - this sort of open-ended discussion that stretches the mind and pushes the boundaries. I'm proud to be part of the team!!!

ALL of your posts since my last (sorry, my computer suddenly became unresponsive and had no visuals - just went dead, crashed yesterday - today it seems to have recovered itself - I was afraid I'd have to run out and get another computer today just to stay hooked in here!! -- explaining this in case I do have to suddenly do so and disappear)...
are some of the best thinking & reading I have seen on this site!!
It's like being at a TED-Talk!!

Just wanted to let you know I'm getting caught up, still reading. I'll probably go back and read the posts again, but there's too much to try to quote/reply - I'd have 100 posts in a row if I did that!

Keep 'talking', Serdg.....
(who the hell ARE you? I can't figure it out. I have some guesses, but no real idea)

So, for now, all I can offer is

reply to post by Serdgiam

The issue I have with "deity," is that it tends to carry some pretty strong connotations. One is that a "deity" is somehow separate from the system over which it presides. Kind of like the idea of a human male figure sitting on a throne. While this is how it is viewed in some contexts, it is not one that I hold true.

"Deities" also tend to require some type of worship.
As a human concept, I am not sure this is even relevant to the rest of the Universe.

Another is that somehow this "deity" actively punishes and rewards those who do it the "right" way, but we seem to all of that just fine on our own. I think that people try to get out of personal responsibility with this single concept because regardless of a God/s, we are fully capable of choosing and creating either concept of heaven or hell. It just happens here and now.

YES!!!
I feel like throwing a party!!

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Sure, I'm conscious and processing, but I have no conscious or subconscious connection to the rest of the universe. The universe does not react when I stub my toe. I do not cry out in pain when a supernova annihilates a dozen moons.

There's a lot of differences between the universe and a traditional god. I'm not being aggressive or antagonistic here, I'm trying to understand. And I think, from what you have explained so far, that "god" is the wrong word for what you're trying to say.

Ahhhh..but don't you SEE, Aft ???? Yes, you DO have a connection, both conscious AND unconscious to the rest of the universe!!! WE ALL DO! We ARE the universe, just as much as a supernova or a stubbed toe.

Maybe it's your definition of what a 'god' is supposed to be. This is a perfect example of how Western thinkers don't easily wrap their heads around the Eastern idea of ONE-NESS, of interconnectedness - we are ALL CONNECTED to EVERYTHING. We EACH have a slice of the universe's consciousness. We are all 'God'. And what we do DOES have an impact on everything else.

Have you ever read The Physics Of Consciousness: The Quantum Mind And The Meaning Of Life by Evan Walker Harris? It is the book I was reading when my dad passed - making his passing all the more poignant, as he was a brilliant engineer-at-large, and fascinated with study of the universe.

For decades, neuroscientists, psychologists, and an army of brain researchers have been struggling, in vain, to explain the phenomenon of consciousness. Now there is a clear trail to the answer, and it leads through the dense jungle of quantum physics, Zen, and subjective experience, and arrives at an unexpected destination.

In this tour-de-force of scientific investigation, Evan Harris Walker shows how the operation of bizarre yet actual properties of elementary particles support a new and exciting theory of reality, based on the principles of quantum physics-a theory that answers questions such as "What is the nature of consciousness, of will?" "What is the source of material reality?" and "What is God?”

It was really slow reading for me, because I am NOT a mathematical genius, and have only a pedestrian grasp on physics to begin with, including quantum theories - I do get the double-slit experiment, and string theory, sorta kinda, at least, and I'm working my way painfully through The Elegant Universe, a book of Daddy's given to me by mom after he died.

I am BARELY able to make heads and tails out of all of it - but it IS soaking in. Serdg has described it beautifully - how "it" seems to me to be. The term 'God' is a weak one. Even Buddha said that trying to "define it" was improper, because it goes beyond our comprehension. But, as you say, we ARE more powerful than we know - and we have only here and now to make a difference in our own unique way. And we literally have only THIS INSTANT - oops - no THIS ONE - erm - THIS one! You see?

reply to post by colbe

This message by itself should have it's own thread.

Blah, blah, colbe....(humor)
Then GO MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD. I don't say this to be harsh, but you are out of your depth here, we've moved on from your rote proselytizing in this thread. We are getting somewhere.

You know what I pray for? I PRAY that you and all other "my religion is the truthers" will pay attention, and WAKE UP!!

Originally posted by mysticnoon
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The study of astrology reveals a fine example of the practical application of fractal geometry.

(I have been waiting to jump back into this thread for the past 30 pages or so, but I seem to have lost the plot of the conversation.)

You have more to add to this conversation than you let on mystic.

For one, you are the link between the old and new. What brought you to this thread?

Originally posted by wildtimes
THIS
TOO
IS
BRILLIANT.

Wow, you guys are amazing. This is what I love about ATS - this sort of open-ended discussion that stretches the mind and pushes the boundaries. I'm proud to be part of the team!!!

And without you, it likely never would have happened. I can see how your posts, albeit a bit hot headed occassionaly, led us directly to where we are now. You are not just an integral part of it, but were the spark that lit the fire.

It's like being at a TED-Talk!!

Oh no, not quite yet. We are working our way towards there, but those participating have to choose to progress or fight along the same old lines of battle.

Just wanted to let you know I'm getting caught up, still reading. I'll probably go back and read the posts again, but there's too much to try to quote/reply - I'd have 100 posts in a row if I did that!

I enjoy your perspective, you have been one of the view to get a "reaction" out of me. Well done, though now you are saddled with the responsibility of an interwebz crush. Dont worry, its like a bro-mance.

Keep 'talking', Serdg.....
(who the hell ARE you?

I can't figure it out.

I have some guesses, but no real idea)

Quite frankly, I am not sure I even know how to shut up! Throw your guesses out there! I will let you know if you are right. It is not hidden, but it was a different time in my life. The cover story is that I forgot my login info while I had the last username, but there might be hints that there is more going on than that And, I really did lose the login stuff for a bit.

You can ask mysticnoon for help, he doesnt even know why he is here (yet) Though, he really does have much, much more valid input than he is letting on.

Originally posted by wildtimes
YES!!!
I feel like throwing a party!!

PARTAY!!!!



I knew we would have a lot of over lapping ideas once we got to it. I also cant wait until you get more comfortable, my sarcastic troll side is itching to come out. Literally... I think I might have to get an ointment.

reply to post by Serdgiam


LOL!
Ugh, speaking of ointment - I've got a wicked case of poison ivy right now - and just came in to take my medication after applying the ointment and icepack -

long and totally off-topic story, but.....maybe it's YOU that gave me this rash!!! *Thinks: conspiracy, it's a conspiracy*

Okay, I'm headed back outside now to read some more "Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill. Very disturbing bit of journalism, that.

But meanwhile - I'm not going to throw guesses out there - uh uh....
(but I will ask - did I interact with you 'before'? I'm comparing members' styles and what I know of their personal/health issues, and you just aren't matching up with anyone on here. Or OFF of here, except possibly Stephen Hawking. (Will watch for a u2u.) It's okay, I'm comfortable now - so sarcas-me all you like. I'll let you know if you're out of bounds. Obvi. Don't worry, your 'crush' will soon dissipate and you can just join my fan club. I'll even add you to the friends list! But no autographed picture, sorry. But their aren't any dues, either. )

So, have you read The Physics of Consciousness as mentioned above??
I hadn't thought of the book earlier in the thread, but yes, as soon as you went to quantum and totality and 42 and all that - I remembered it. It would be a PERFECT read for anyone here looking to intertwine physics with 'faith'. In fact, it was your thoughts that reminded me. So this is really all YOUR FAULT?!

*electrolytes*

Originally posted by wildtimes
Ahhhh..but don't you SEE, Aft ???? Yes, you DO have a connection, both conscious AND unconscious to the rest of the universe!!! WE ALL DO! We ARE the universe, just as much as a supernova or a stubbed toe.

Maybe it's your definition of what a 'god' is supposed to be. This is a perfect example of how Western thinkers don't easily wrap their heads around the Eastern idea of ONE-NESS, of interconnectedness - we are ALL CONNECTED to EVERYTHING. We EACH have a slice of the universe's consciousness. We are all 'God'. And what we do DOES have an impact on everything else.

Thats really the most amazing part about it all to me. The amount of sheer data that is simultaneously happening here is.. incredible. It is more than awe-inspiring and incomprehensible. There is no amount of words one could use to even come close to describing how amazing it is. And that is just to a humans perspective. One. Human!

Not only are we all part of the same system right here and now, we all came from the same thing, are interconnected at every imaginable level, and are all going right back into star dust.

It was really slow reading for me, because I am NOT a mathematical genius, and have only a pedestrian grasp on physics to begin with, including quantum theories - I do get the double-slit experiment, and string theory, sorta kinda, at least, and I'm working my way painfully through The Elegant Universe, a book of Daddy's given to me by mom after he died.

I think being a "mathematical genius," or a "genius" of any kind is not what it is cracked up to be. It is very frustrating. None of my "advanced" ideas can even be communicated through math, all I get from everyone (even the math genuises) is glossed over eyes. The amount of times I have been laughed at is pretty high. Hell, even back in high school, the teacher got the entire class room to laugh at one of my ideas because of how "crazy" it sounded to him.

That is why I try so hard to find people, such as yourself, who have different strengths. If we can get over our communication hurdles, then nothing can stop us.

I also wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your father. How scary that must be... I am lucky enough to have mine, though he does have osteosarcoma. We are a team, and a good one. Our only goal is to get all of these things finalized to the point that others can continue them without it being usurped by the "greed before need" clan.

And we literally have only THIS INSTANT - oops - no THIS ONE - erm - THIS one! You see?

*head explodes*

Originally posted by Serdgiam

You have more to add to this conversation than you let on mystic.

For one, you are the link between the old and new. What brought you to this thread?

You seem to know me better than I know myself.

What brought me to this thread? Stimulating discussions, generally, and an interest in the shift of perspective involved in the conversion from one belief to another.

reply to post by mysticnoon

What brought me to this thread? Stimulating discussions, generally, and an interest in the shift of perspective involved in the conversion from one belief to another.

This is of great interest to me too. We must ask: with such a shift in perspective, what in us actually changes? So far the only difference I can see is the literature we subscribe to.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

LOL!
Ugh, speaking of ointment - I've got a wicked case of poison ivy right now - and just came in to take my medication after applying the ointment and icepack -

long and totally off-topic story, but.....maybe it's YOU that gave me this rash!!! *Thinks: conspiracy, it's a conspiracy*

Its the mysteries of the universe wild, the mysteries of th..

*look over there!!!*

*runs*

(but I will ask - did I interact with you 'before'? I'm comparing members' styles and what I know of their personal/health issues, and you just aren't matching up with anyone on here. Or OFF of here, except possibly Stephen Hawking.

(Will watch for a u2u.)

I am pretty sure we have interacted before, but I cant remember the specifics. No one has heard of me, and that is for a good reason. So, no publicity figure or anything. The best way will be to look for the username. Mysticnoon has the key in all of this.

It's okay, I'm comfortable now - so sarcas-me all you like.

That sounds dirty

I'll let you know if you're out of bounds. Obvi. Don't worry, your 'crush' will soon dissipate and you can just join my fan club. I'll even add you to the friends list! But no autographed picture, sorry. But their aren't any dues, either. )

Good, cause Im broke! And we will see what dissipated and what doesnt, only time will tell

So, have you read The Physics of Consciousness as mentioned above??

I dont think I have, but I have to be honest, I have read a lot of books. So many, that I can read one I have read before and not even know it until the end. I had the luck of working in a bookstore where I was allowed to freely take and read any book whatsoever. I worked there for years, so you can only imagine.. I generally would read 4-5 books simultaneously and finish them within 5-7 days.

I hadn't thought of the book earlier in the thread, but yes, as soon as you went to quantum and totality and 42 and all that - I remembered it. It would be a PERFECT read for anyone here looking to intertwine physics with 'faith'.

In fact, it was your thoughts that reminded me. So this is really all YOUR FAULT?!

Yeah, just blame it on me. So typical...

I wanted to say though, that I think our universe is a small piece of something bigger (unimaginable in size or construction). When we look into the quantum, I think we are looking outside of our bubble of space-time. When something has a strong impact, in a certain way, we are able to get access to both dualistic waves at once.

When you take a picture of a car speeding down the street, you can take either long or short exposure. These can represent the idea of what data packets the two waves contain. A short exposure will allow us to see all the fine detail but no sense of movement. A long exposure will allow us to see the rest of the data (movement, direction, things like that) but all of the fine detail is lost. The way these two waves interact is called "phases." How the two waves are phased when they change medium will result in some very interesting things.

If this car were to crash into a wall, even a short exposure picture would allow us to determine more of the pertinent data in the situation. We can see the fine detail, and also get data sets that can help us understand the speed (through material rigidity, crumples, dents), etc.

*electrolytes*

One of my solutions is a welfare replacement (see what I dids thar?). The idea is to model a living arrangement that is sustainable in many ways, mostly self-sustaining. Meaning, one can grow their own food with aquaponics, gather their own water, and have an integrated technology system that is able to handle all of the variables for them for the best results (but it will still require some work). Because of my.. predicament, I feel I get a unique view into what will or wont work for even the disabled. Its the idea of "teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life." I am able to build a house for very, very cheap. And yet, it has all of the latest technology (including a 100" movie screen!!), as well as all of the "green" tech. The biggest key is an efficient energy generator. There has been a false divided created between technology and "green living," just as there has been between religion and science.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
This is of great interest to me too. We must ask: with such a shift in perspective, what in us actually changes? So far the only difference I can see is the literature we subscribe to.

This just gave me a real hearty laugh! My overflowing bookshelves seem to be a testament to the truth of your statement.

Originally posted by mysticnoon
You seem to know me better than I know myself.

What brought me to this thread? Stimulating discussions, generally, and an interest in the shift of perspective involved in the conversion from one belief to another.

No, you know yourself better than me, I would say. However, it is probably safe to say I do know you.

What do you think of life now? (and dont ruin the puzzle! for some it is a great source of fun!)

That is what brought me here too, though it seems we were all led here for various reasons. Interesting how the topic has morphed over the period of the pages. It will be even more interesting to see where it goes. Great amounts of learning taking place buried after dozens of pages, on some obscure section, on some message board.

I suppose it could be intentional in only having those who were meant to see it, see it.

Originally posted by mysticnoon

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
This is of great interest to me too. We must ask: with such a shift in perspective, what in us actually changes? So far the only difference I can see is the literature we subscribe to.

This just gave me a real hearty laugh! My overflowing bookshelves seem to be a testament to the truth of your statement.

I am replying to both of you here.

Perhaps after we have read enough books on other "worlds," we can start to see how many exist simultaneously in the Universe. For some, it may be the first step in recognizing how truly vast this all is.

At some point though, I think we need to start writing our own, so to speak..