Lost Wisdom of the Ancients or failure on our part?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Hanslune
I hold that the Maine Penny is legit but may have come to it locations by trade.

My understanding is that the Maine Penny was found in a Labrador FN tool kit. But all it takes is the right site, eh?

Exactly, but I'm sticking to my story...I had a friend who spent most of his life searching NE for more Norse relics-sadly he never found them but believe another site was under city/town/village x, y, or z

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thank you Slayer, it's been awhile reading any of your threads. I agree with you, I truly think that they had their stuff together back those thousands of years ago. And today our scientists and govt. is doing everything they can to keep this quiet. I truly think the real dark secret is the possibility that humanoids not like us but a different type of species existed on this planet and where the top "people" on the planet and when the cataclysm happened or they where overthrowned everything about them was changed and we did this or we did that. The victor comes the spoils and the telling of history.

Originally posted by hoghead cheese
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Thank you Slayer, it's been awhile reading any of your threads. I agree with you, I truly think that they had their stuff together back those thousands of years ago. And today our scientists and govt. is doing everything they can to keep this quiet. I truly think the real dark secret is the possibility that humanoids not like us but a different type of species existed on this planet and where the top "people" on the planet and when the cataclysm happened or they where overthrowned everything about them was changed and we did this or we did that. The victor comes the spoils and the telling of history.

Hey Hoghead

Question if the 'government and scientists' are doing this that would mean - the governmnet of Luxembourg is deeply concerned about this and a guy working on particle physics is helping to hide Atlantean vases?

Seriously how would you coordinate all the governments in the world and scientist to do this? How would they know or even agree that x and y had to be hidden? In what year did 'they' decide to do this?

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by hoghead cheese
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Thank you Slayer, it's been awhile reading any of your threads. I agree with you, I truly think that they had their stuff together back those thousands of years ago. And today our scientists and govt. is doing everything they can to keep this quiet. I truly think the real dark secret is the possibility that humanoids not like us but a different type of species existed on this planet and where the top "people" on the planet and when the cataclysm happened or they where overthrowned everything about them was changed and we did this or we did that. The victor comes the spoils and the telling of history.

Hey Hoghead

Question if the 'government and scientists' are doing this that would mean - the governmnet of Luxembourg is deeply concerned about this and a guy working on particle physics is helping to hide Atlantean vases?

Seriously how would you coordinate all the governments in the world and scientist to do this? How would they know or even agree that x and y had to be hidden? In what year did 'they' decide to do this?

Not everybody has to know, it's called the conspiracy of silence or culture of silence. It relates to a condition or matter which is known to exist, but by tacit communal unspoken consensus is not talked about or acknowledged. Commonly such matters are considered culturally shameful, or potentially dangerous to speak openly about. Taboo subjects may be indirectly discussed via the use of politically correct code words, or euphemisms.

en.wikipedia.org...(expression)

For example, people who hold power in Luxembourg my not want information about a higher or more advanced civilization in the far past because it may knock them out of power. Either people seeing that you don't need a govt. structure like Lux to be advanced and/or feel that they aren't different from other humans that where in the same boat as they. For the religious, they may not want to have it come out because it would through their believe system out the window. A possibility since almost all the stories from Noah and such are copied form Stories from Sumeria and it was ancient back then. And it could be said that sheep herders did this and changed some things in order to fit their beliefs. And for the scientists it's like this, it takes a big man or woman to admit that they are wrong. What type of person would it take to admit that everything that they have been tought and believed is not only wrong but dead wrong. So if something doesn't fit, they ignore it or say it's in error.

A silence that everybody knows that they system that we have is wrong, but they can't come out and say it because it may destroy what they have known.

What about The Georgia Guidestones made in 1979?

It's carved in these languages:

English, Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Hebrew, Arabic, (Mandarin) Chinese, Russian, Babylonian, Classical Greek, Sanskrit and Egyptian hieroglyphs.

If a disaster ever happens and humanity needs to start over, here is what they'll see on this stone:

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

- Wikipedia: Georgia Guidestones

reply to post by hoghead cheese


You presume a vast net of cooperation by tens of millions over multiple generations

Good theory - wrong species

I wanted to give this thread a well deserved bump. there have many great replies and the ongoing discussion seems rather interesting.

Thanks to all members participation .

Great contribution.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hey Slayer

I'll add a point for discussion

Lets consider 200 years

In 1813 the world 'European' view was that our planet was about 6,000 years old and that men came from a special creation event initiated by God.

2013 we know the world is now billions of years old and the evidence points to a slow evolution and development of culture, language, society etc. We have found a number of civilizations that we didn't know existed in 1813 and scores of cultures.

So I would say there is no failure - but it will take centuries more of effort to find out more about our past, often blocked by religious bigotry, scientific egos, lake of money, lack of technology but we will in the end gain a fair idea of the when and how of our rise.

JayinAR
There is actually a lot of stuff that would last quite awhile if civilization was wiped out today. Though maybe not our IPads, but other stuff. Interstate I-40 here near where I live has an expanse of hundreds of miles of reinforced concrete slabs. That would last quite awhile. As would the excavated embankments running parallel. Underground bunkers, etc...

Modern concrete has a very short lifespan, actually. It is reinforced with steel, which is mostly iron, which tends to oxidize, which turns out not to be very good at reinforcement. One hundred years, and anything made of concrete will be crumbling rapidly. After a thousand years, it won't be much more than scattered gravel within concentrations of lime in the soil, plus the occasional rust stain.

Tsurugi

JayinAR
There is actually a lot of stuff that would last quite awhile if civilization was wiped out today. Though maybe not our IPads, but other stuff. Interstate I-40 here near where I live has an expanse of hundreds of miles of reinforced concrete slabs. That would last quite awhile. As would the excavated embankments running parallel. Underground bunkers, etc...

Modern concrete has a very short lifespan, actually. It is reinforced with steel, which is mostly iron, which tends to oxidize, which turns out not to be very good at reinforcement. One hundred years, and anything made of concrete will be crumbling rapidly. After a thousand years, it won't be much more than scattered gravel within concentrations of lime in the soil, plus the occasional rust stain.

And thousands of years later, still recognizeable as (former) concrete slabs.

Harte

reply to post by Tsurugi


Depends on what type of concrete was used; Roman concrete structures are doing just fine - Roman concrete is ten times weaker than modern but despite the weakness it lasts longer.

Some modern concrete especially that made for dams and fortifications will last for tens of thousands of years - the common stuff will degrade but as Harte noted it will still look like an artifical mix and if set into the ground will leave an impression.

neo96
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Man is NOT presently the most sophisticated he has ever been, not by a long shot. Oh, sure, we have plenty of high-tech modern electronics and a better understanding of the Micro, Macro and even of the Multi but in the end what have we really obtained?

IMO not much sure we have some 'nice gadgets', but nothing that would stand the test of time like that star chart.

For every technological progression older technology is lost like how many people would be able to carve a star chart in stone?

Not too many.

Common analogy to that would be in this digital age writing has been pushed off to the side maybe it's just me but when i look at my parents handwriting, and my own?

Mine is severely lacking today there is not much need for it thousands of years today what will the future people think of us?

Probably not too much as nothing really would be left sure some broken chips, and ic circuits, and a shatter lcd, without power.

Analog stands the test of time, digital is just a fleeting moment in time, lost.

Look it is basic physics, hear me, it is not physically possible for the ancients to build the great pyramid with the tools they had in less than twenty years. That would be moving and placing several ton stones one every two minutes. Now that doesn't mean that they did not do it, just that they did in a different way.

One thing is becoming more and more clear from sites around the world, the ancients were smarter than we know and they had advanced knowledge and technology that has been lost. This knowledge would have been sacred and only known by few select shamans, priest, holy men etc.

One such knowledge that we are now finding they had was sonics. It explains allot, it is how they were able to move and place such large stones. New discoveries are coming and hopefully soon we may have this ancient knowledge once more.

The ancients had a great knowledge of sound that was lost to us. They knew it could move and possibly liquify stones, but they new sound could enhance meditation and help with everything from sex, to healing, and even making war.

I hope we fully recover and understand lost ancient knowledge, they were truly smarter than we are.

The Bot

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Lol, I forgot all about that movie, lol. My favorite scene:

Lost "WISDOM" of the Ancients is the name of this thread.
I only read the first three pages, and I seen no Wisdom.
I only read of technology and knowledge.
Wisdom is far greater than technology and knowledge combined.
That is what this world lacks. Wisdom.
Man's technology today has caused knowledge to increase all around the world.
It has also separated him from his original state suppressing the wisdom that we have the ability
to access. Knowledge made the chart, wisdom understands it.

I would say that a few ancients were pretty smart and were able to come up with some impressive bits of stone or metal that could help them do simple calculations or find stars. I've always said that human beings have always been more or less the same level of intelligence ever since we became a separate species. The ancient world had its Einsteins and Stephen Hawkings, although for the most part they were probably about as smart on average as any random sample of contemporary people.

What they don't get credit for, however, is ambition and speed. As smart as they were, it still took them 35,000 years to come up with some of this stuff. Yeah, life was pretty hard, but what they were trying to do was simple. Catch food and stay alive. They didn't have to learn to drive or operate a computer, and they didn't have distractions like TV that ate up their time. Once they figured out fire, and later when they figured out agriculture, they had time. Time to ponder things.

Then they sat in front of the fire for dozens of millennia and as a whole didn't really accomplish jack squat. I wonder sometimes if maybe life didn't get too easy for them. They got lazy. Once you find a system that works, there's not much need for genius.

beezzer
Oh lord, please don't tell me that we are the pinnacle of intelligence.

We will build machines that are smarter than we are, and then they will build machines even smarter than that. They'll be our offspring, in a way. Traveling though time and space where we can't go because of our flimsy organic natures. Hopefully they will remember us fondly.

Harte

Tsurugi

JayinAR
There is actually a lot of stuff that would last quite awhile if civilization was wiped out today. Though maybe not our IPads, but other stuff. Interstate I-40 here near where I live has an expanse of hundreds of miles of reinforced concrete slabs. That would last quite awhile. As would the excavated embankments running parallel. Underground bunkers, etc...

Modern concrete has a very short lifespan, actually. It is reinforced with steel, which is mostly iron, which tends to oxidize, which turns out not to be very good at reinforcement. One hundred years, and anything made of concrete will be crumbling rapidly. After a thousand years, it won't be much more than scattered gravel within concentrations of lime in the soil, plus the occasional rust stain.

And thousands of years later, still recognizeable as (former) concrete slabs.

True. Provided that:
a) you know what you're looking for
b) you look forensically
c) the area in question has not undergone any catastrophic events(heavy/repeated flooding, volcanism)
d) the area in question has not become a tropical rainforest
e) the area in question did not have glaciers cross it

GezinhoKiko
I know your an expert Byrd in this field, but sometimes we need to look at reality and realise the ancients had a message of utmost importance for future peoples.
But just like the thread title, we have failed massively in understanding the messages.

What? I understand the message just fine, it goes something like this:

If you are standing
amidst scattered ruins
whilst reading this

Don't do what we did
because
it didn't work out

Hanslune
reply to post by Tsurugi

 

Depends on what type of concrete was used; Roman concrete structures are doing just fine - Roman concrete is ten times weaker than modern but despite the weakness it lasts longer.

Yeah, they used volcanic ash, among other things. I recall reading an article not too long ago about some studies of Roman concrete that were going to completely change the modern concrete industry....ah, here it is:
Ancient Roman Concrete Is About to Revolutionize Modern Architecture

Some modern concrete especially that made for dams and fortifications will last for tens of thousands of years - the common stuff will degrade but as Harte noted it will still look like an artifical mix and if set into the ground will leave an impression.

I agree that fortifications--especially subsurface fortifications in geologically stable areas--will very probably last a long, long, LONG long time. And, being completely sheltered from the elements, much of the stuff that is left in them would probably survive for ages as well.
And no doubt any poor sap who stumbles into one thousands of years from now in the middle of a desert or jungle somewhere will be judged a crazy loon or a hoaxer if he returns to his civilization and tries to tell people about it. ¬_¬

On the other hand, the lifespan of a structure like a dam is entirely reliant on constant, vigilant maintenance. If Captain Tripps(the deadly flu from The Stand) wipes most of us out and leaves the dam empty of techs and engineers, it will not be long before it is destroyed in any number of ways....all of which have to do with the fact that it is built across a bottleneck blocking the passage of huge amounts of water.

Tsurugi

Harte

Tsurugi

JayinAR
Modern concrete has a very short lifespan, actually. It is reinforced with steel, which is mostly iron, which tends to oxidize, which turns out not to be very good at reinforcement. One hundred years, and anything made of concrete will be crumbling rapidly. After a thousand years, it won't be much more than scattered gravel within concentrations of lime in the soil, plus the occasional rust stain.

And thousands of years later, still recognizeable as (former) concrete slabs.

True. Provided that:
a) you know what you're looking for

I believe that is a given.

Tsurugib) you look forensically

See above, no thanks to earlier archaeologists.

Tsurugi
c) the area in question has not undergone any catastrophic events(heavy/repeated flooding, volcanism)
d) the area in question has not become a tropical rainforest
e) the area in question did not have glaciers cross it

All three could be a problem. But you could just find it in one of the other twenty or thirty million such sites. Somehow, I don't think concrete from our time will be looked upon as a curiosity by far future archaeologists.


Harte

edit on 10/18/2013 by Harte because: (no reason given)