Lost Wisdom of the Ancients or failure on our part?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Byrd

 

Baked clay does break down over thousands of years (otherwise we'd have a lot more cuneiform tablets)

Byrd..

Yet we have those very same 5,000 year old clay tablets [Whether fired or not ] still around don't we?

Plastic will be around for thousands of years but will a hand held device still function say after the batteries that power them explode or rupture and or corrode?

Heh. You do like to offer a good thought question for analysis.

Well... I'm on the side of your son, I suspect, so ponder these:

Notice that the parts for ancient mechanisms also didn't survive for thousands of years (many of them we have only descriptions of) and unless their power source was something like water (modern example: Hoover Dam) their power sources didn't survive, either. Our ancestors weren't capable of making some of the things they thought of simply because they lacked technology and knowledge.

I suspect our devices will be more commonly found since standardization in materials science enables us to make things with certain properties. We also make a lot more of these than the ancients did, so I suspect there will be billions of automobiles left in junkyard graves that the future archaeologist can study (or salvage) for reproductions.

Leonardo couldn't make his helicopter OR his tank. But we can reproduce them easily and even make functional models of them (and alter the parts where his understanding fell short... and know WHY they should be altered instead of wasting years in trial and effort.)

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by Byrd

 

I wanted to thank you for showing me Su Song's clock tower. I never knew about that and it is utterly amazing!

China's history has quickly become one of my favorite topics in recent times, Korea, Japan, and others like Siam as well. Always find something new and mind blowing.

edit on 15-6-2013 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-6-2013 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

Ah, there are so many wonders, aren't there? The Chinese and Japanese technology (not often mentioned in the European-centric histories) is just fascinating. I find the robots particularly intriguing and want to build one sometime (probably out of Legos) to understand it better.

Their paper technology (origami) is also amazing.

Slayer

While I understand the point you're trying to make, I think you're comparing apples and oranges on this one.

I agree that the ancients did seem to store their information efficiently; however, this efficiency was more the result of necessity and due to a lack of technology. Can you imagine if we had to carve all our information into clay tablets? I'm sure you would want your information to be as concise as possible!

At the same time, we can also say that the ancients, compared to our present technology, were infinitely inefficient. If we were to take a piece of modern technology of roughly the same size as one of those clay tablets, and crammed it with information, we could probably fit all of that eras knowledge onto that singular device.

So, in that respect, there is absolutely no comparison in efficiencies.

And as far as longevity is concerned, again, I think this was just an instance of the ancients using what was readily available to them. It just so happened that the end result lasted a long time.
Our modern mass produced information storage devices aren't designed to last thousands of years, but, if that was the manufacturers purpose, I'm sure it could be easily accomplished.

Hey,

I just wanted to throw this out there...

If we are going to do this don't we need an actual analog calculating and information storage device with which to make this comparison?

That thing is not an astrolabe or any other sort of 'calculating' device. If you go to read about it you will find that it was preserved in a library because it recorded one significant astronomical event; the entry of some large meteor, or whatever, in to our atmosphere...

It is a copy of the night notebook of a Sumerian astronomer as he records the events in the sky before dawn on the 29 June 3123 BC (Julian calendar). Half the tablet records planet positions and cloud cover, the same as any other night, but the other half of the tablet records an object large enough for its shape to be noted even though it is still in space. The astronomers made an accurate note of its trajectory relative to the stars, which to an error better than one degree is consistent with an impact at Köfels.

www.bristol.ac.uk...

Just as a side note: isn't that stunning enough? It seems like it would be worthy of its own thread. Köfels impact!?

Alright, 'nuff said.

Have a good Saturday.

reply to post by SLAYER69


It makes sense to keep the images simple in to convey the data. But to 1 SLAYER69 there may very well exist technical data that has lasted longer then considered its vaulted and unfound or vaulted and found. Tech like suspected with he crystal skull ORIGINALS and how they are said to release a data with input of some form of prism function connection. using them for an example.

Now when you think if this tech is REAL what would happen if existing today. In one situation the data and tech is obtained by MIB type systems in another the extremely wealthy get hands on and hide and further down the groups with some of the lesser artifacts like sprockets or springs to engines (but a craft off world so impressive springs) would use them as false idols... following this hypothetical approach the wisdom exist but is hindered in various way or unfound vaulted.

I think mankind and others terrain can do similar projects mass projects to leave marks or data for future man but how much is man allowed to share, when deeply considering for the lasers and satellites and aircraft exist today to draw an impressive picture on land and sea floor incase sea floor resurfaced again... but no project really in global perspective is being presented as of now.

So perhaps its about the planets inhabitants getting along enough to carry out the wisdom passing thru times SLAYER69.

NAMASTE*******

Advanced would be a projection inside a celestial body that orbits STAR SOL and when comes near EA*RTH every so many years it stops and Projects Images videos of actual events recorded on and off EA*RTH.

Great post and I agree it's a failure on our part to decipher the clues.

I have some ants that have a colony near a coke tin in my garden, their best carbon daters cannot ascertain when it was built .....

Originally posted by oldmeatwad
to quote Kip . . . . Like anyone can actually know that Napoleon

This dock may have been destroyed many times and the oldest of ancient knowledge may truly be lost.
This of course is all meaningless if we ourselves are fabricating this slice of the quantum veil

Of course. This is ATS, I expect that belief and I enjoy as much as the next guy considering what if scenarios of all the civilizations prior to ours that supposedly exceeded our accomplishments. Or, contemplation of whether our universe exists in a mode of reality different than assumed. But like I said, my thoughts are based on evidence I'm aware of (or lack of evidence), not so much the desire that it be true. The fact is, there is a lot we do know - more so than most people realize. I am with Hanslune:

Originally posted by Hanslune
There is no evidence that we 'reset' world wide advanced technological civilization every 26,000 years (but it is a beloved fringe meme) there is however an immense amount of evidence that we did't. You might want to look at ice cores, sediment cores and particularly archaeological site with long stratigraphic records some going back over a stretch of 350,000 years there is no sign of the 'reset civilization' and lots of signs of mans slow development to cultures then civilizations.

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I have seen the pink granite obelisks and some of the details in those hieroglyphs are minute. According to archeologists granite was cut with copper saws shaped by beating chunks out of it with stone balls/hammers and then lapped to smooth the surface. Obviously you cant use that method to carve hieroglyphs?

Yep you can cut granite with SAND that is driven or directed by a copper or bronze saw - you can even use wood but it tends to wear out real quick - yep and work was done with diorite hammers. Sure you can you just do it with small hammers, sand and lots of elbow grease.

Again if you really, firmly believe its impossible offer up that prize - what do you have to lose?

Why don't you get a piece of granite and try rubbing it with sand for a few hours ( I have) let us know what happens? Yep it might take many months or even years but it works, try it and report back.

Originally posted by Hadrian
The premise implied may be that a qualification for determining the achievement level of technological advancement may be the durability of that technology or the durability of the communication of that technology. I'm not sure this has inherently or traditionally been an accepted criteria.

One of the often cited pitfalls of the speed of our technology has been the lamentable disposable nature of it. For example, it seems there will be soon significantly fewer paper books in the world than ten years ago. Floppy disks, 8-tracks and other types of storage mechanism have come and gone, replaced and sometimes forgotten.

However, if one of the actual intentions of the information was its ability to remain viable over extended periods of time, I have confidence that we can currently meet that challenge better than it has ever been met before. Again, I'm not so sure that has been routinely a goal in our age. Of course, there are indications this is changing in various areas like experts are exploring how to convey the hazards of nuclear waste for indefinite periods.

But for me, there's no question that the level of the knowledge that we currently possess and have access to is incontrovertibly far, far more advanced than at any other time. Any available evidence I'm aware of does not indicate otherwise.

It's probably a very good thing, in general, that we are pondering methods of storing that knowledge and technology so that it isn't lost and so that resets aren't so wholly complete do-overs. Preservation of advancement may turn out to be the great challenge of civilization - perhaps more so than accumulation of knowledge or the advancement itself. Because ultimately, it's going to boil down to man vs. nature and we know who always wins that contest.

Yes it may turn out to be a great disaster but our present technology allows us to record a great deal - which we needed desperately, perhaps in the near future we'll figure out a near permanent recording method that is in synch with modern computer technology. We are in a dangerous change over period, between books and microfilm and electronic memory, hopefully we'll find a permanent solution before data is lost..

The first program I wrote resides in an IBM punch tape, my first MA thesis is on some 5 1/4 disks for the Claris software on a Apple II GS, my first contributions to archaeology and my other careers are recorded on microfilm and most of my teaching stuff was on plastic overhead projector slides, PowerPoint and the software of Hot Potato and Banner - nearly all perishable and some no longer easily readable! I did some great accounting too on Lotus 1-2-3.

Hello, this is a very fascinating topic and well introduced.

But the reason why I am replying is because I believe that the "ancient mysteries" are currently being misinterpreted (see video). Authors such as Alice A. Bailey of Lucis Trust have maintained for example that:

"The 'Mysteries' are, in the last analysis, the true source of revelation...There are planetary energies and forces which men as yet cannot and do not control; they know nothing of them and yet upon them the life of the planet is dependent; they are also closely related to the despised psychic powers...these powers...will prove of enormous usefulness in the sciences which the Mysteries will reveal." (The Teachings of the Christ, Alice Bailey, Lucis Trust)"

or that:

"These ancient Mysteries were originally given to humanity by the Hierarchy and contain the entire clue to the evolutionary process, hidden in numbers, in ritual, in words and in symbology; these veil the secret of man's origin and destiny, picturing to him, in rite and ritual, the long, long path which he must tread, back into the light. They provide also (when rightly interpreted and correctly represented) the teaching which humanity needs in order to pass from darkness to Light, from the unreal to the Real and from death to Immortality."
(The Reappearance of the Christ. p.121/22)

"He [newage christ] will also revive these Mysteries in other ways...The true Mysteries will also reveal themselves through science...The Mysteries contain, within their formulas and teachings, the key to the science which will unlock the mystery of Electricity - the greatest spiritual science and area of divine knowledge in the world, the fringes of which have only just been touched...Only when the Hierarchy is present visibly on Earth and the Mysteries [...] given openly to the world, will the true secret and nature of Electrical Phenomena be revealed..

In other words the Ancient Mysteries are really only Luciferian at their core, and any 'Restoration of these Ancient Mysteries' will only serve to usher in a new 'Luciferian' age (New Age) to be controlled by their expected 'Christ' and his 'Spiritual Hierarchy of Masters'.

New Age authors such as Benjamin Creme of Share International (and former head of The Aetherius Society) unfortunately only serve to confirm my suspicions; Benjamin Creme the author of books such as 'The Awakening of Humanity' and 'The Reappearance of the Christ', titles which you tend to recognise as being either the same, or similar to those published by Bailey at Lucis Trust for example.


Hence I believe that this whole "Planetary Energies" or "New Electricity" thing is being led by the "Spiritual Hierarchy" at the very top of the illuminati pyramid. And indeed, I for one have been increasingly noticing "the minions" gradually beginning to introduce us to more ancient/sacred sites... (Alex Jones at Stonehenge, David Icke in Peru, Mayan sites through 11/11 or 2012.. Ancient Inca sites to the Forbidden City Tokyo by Foster Gamble of THRIVE.. Egypts Giza Plateau by David Wilcock.. Benjamin Creme, Nassim Harrimen, Drunvalo Melchizedek.. on and on.)



Can their be any doubt that the Mysteries are ushering the world into a New(luciferian)Age, under the Antichrist ?

I for one do not wish to be initiated into this New Luciferian Age as David Spangler wrote about.

Oops sorry I forgot to explain David Spanglers coming New Age "initiation". (@ 02:10 Where Alex is describing David Ickes 1991 Peru Initiation for example.)

There is one aspect of initiation which is apt to be overlooked. Every initiation is a process of energy transmission from a higher center of energy to a lower; every INITIATION CHARGES THE INITIATE WITH ELECTRICAL FORCE, and this charging and re-charging is related to what H.P.B. calls "the mystery of electricity." These transmissions of energy enhance the magnetic-attractive force of the INITIATE, and at the same time are eliminative in their effects. In this fact lies a great planetary truth and the key to the science of planetary redemption. When the spiritual and the [736] electrical charging of the three major centers on the planet - Shamballa, the Hierarchy and Humanity - has reached a high stage of receptive efficiency, a certain cosmic Avatar will "become conscious of the vibratory quality of the little point of light within the solar sphere" and will then "turn His gaze and send His force unto that point of light, and cosmic evil will be driven out and find no more a place on Earth."

Two more initiations remain to be considered, but so high is their potency and so mysterious their working that I find myself unable to deal with them in any way....www.ngsm.org...

Thank you for your indulgence.

Originally posted by grandmakdw
Interesting thread!
If a global catastrophe happens, our culture will be lost entirely and far future generations will believe civilization began when humans crawl out of the catastrophe which created a new stone age. We have done nothing concrete (pun intended) except for the Georgia guidestone to pass on any of our civilization or accomplishments. Even the seed vault will just be a mystery anomaly just as the pyramids are today.

The underground shelters for the elite will leave a group of people with practically zero skills to care for themselves and who are selfish and have the notion that others will always serve them and do the dirty work needed to survive. They will quickly implode.

Consider the vast majority of humans today have zero skills to survive a catastrophe. No farming skills, no animal husbandry skills, no spinning or weaving skills, no skills to build a solid shelter, no means to obtain the information lost to survive. All our survival skills are relegated to the few, and the few who have these skills will become fewer.

Our "advanced" civilization will become a legend like Atlantis.

There is information stored in analogical form. It acts as fail save. The golden disks on voyagers are eternal if they don't hit anything. Some of our buildings can last thousands of years, some parts can last million years. Things made from gold and lead last very long time.

Originally posted by Hanslune


Yep you can cut granite with SAND that is driven or directed by a copper or bronze saw - you can even use wood but it tends to wear out real quick - yep and work was done with diorite hammers. Sure you can you just do it with small hammers, sand and lots of elbow grease.

Again if you really, firmly believe its impossible offer up that prize - what do you have to lose?

Why don't you get a piece of granite and try rubbing it with sand for a few hours ( I have) let us know what happens? Yep it might take many months or even years but it works, try it and report back.

I am aware how glass lenses or telescope mirrors can be made by lapping with sand to shape the glass however that method cannot be used to produce hieroglyphs in granite, particularly hieroglyph with straight lines and acute angles. To produce fine detail would take a fine pointed tool, a fine pointed tool made from stone simply would not work.

reply to post by eastendkid


I read those quotes without the religious context and to me there is a lot of sense.

If you take the religious comments or imagine 'x' instead of religious wording, it makes sense from a holistic point of view, science and religion trying to interpret the same thing, that which is absolute, the ultimate, absolute power to which all belongs and is part of.

The ritual part is very true, I read it as nature rituals, rather than religious rituals. I often find such musings, even those of the biblical have two fold meanings, sometimes more. One can see it as a negative thing or one can see it in the light. For example, many of my more profound insights and seeing the reality of situations happen when involved in some sort of ritual, often repetitive, but something that becomes second nature and allows the mind to know the things that it needs to know, or being in a clear unmuddied state where there is clarity of thought that leads to insight. I believe a lot of the major things learned are learned whilst those inventors and the like are involved in ritualistic behaviour.

When I say ritualistic I mean anything from hand washing dishes to something that is done regularly, for some sewing, knitting, cleaning the house, baking, building, carpentry, weaving, crafts, drawing painting etc, something that involves the mind in a way that also allows the mind to access this clarity and essence of truth.

Perhaps it is the use of natural materials, like water, wood, wool, cotton, metal, paint, ink etc that is the catalyst, I have often felt the qualities of the materials used are essential to the work produced, for example when using a really nice wood, a carpenter might make some work more beautifully, when I use certain inks and paper or pens, like goose quill or metal nib, there is an organic quality that accompanies both, same with paper etc, I guess everything has an energy, a vibration and that is perhaps something being sensed and being tuned to.

Perhaps sensing and being tuned to these natural energies is where true clarity is, and in working with these materials and our minds being tuned to the right frequency allows being tuned to the 'absolute' energy to which all belongs and is part of.

I must say I agree with both your recent posts in this thread theabsolutetruth.

I am going on to put out there that there seems to be a distinct lack of physical and fine motor skills and intelligences prevalent in the current generation. I believe that as a percentage of the population the ratio of people with skills necessary to survive and also to create if necessary is far lower that it has been in the past. The only problem with this is that I also believe that necessity can be a powerful motivator. We never truly know what we are capable of until we are actually put into that position or tested.

In reflecting on the thread itself its hard to consider the thoughts and intentions of the ancient Sumerians and Assyrians or any other civilisations older than our current one without the setting and context in the foremost of our thoughts. What they did they did for specific reasons. Why did they seem to spend so much time studying the stars, creating astrolabs and star charts. Or perhaps they did spend as much time and thought on other subjects its just that the knowledge learnt about farming or carving or building temples and the like was more readily utilised and remembered and taught than the complicated aspect of the heavens.

Any students of the stars would need these star charts and such in order to better observe changes and predict future events for those in authority. We have to remember that often the price of failure or misrepresenting an event read from the stars could mean execution. Thus the motivation for keeping the most accurate records one could would be essential. The protection of such records would be foremost in the minds of those practising the skills. I suspect that it is these reasons why we seem to more readily find records like this from ancient civilisations over other aspects of their lives.

There is an interesting article on ancient astrology as the root for science here:
Ancient Astrology

I particularly like this statement as it refers back to my thoughts on why this sort of information is often readily found when people dig up ancient civilisations:

Astrology, however, has at least three important advantages over all other arts of prediction - the divine nature of stars, the universality of celestial phenomena and the fact that these phenomena could be forecasted.

reply to post by Byrd



I thought someone figured out that the pyramids were some function of a power source. they are all over the world.

There are a ton of things which don't make sense technologically. I just found this article today as it goes:

newscenter.lbl.gov...

Basically the Romans made better concrete with natural resources than what we can with harmful chemicals. Work that one out! We missed something big a long while ago. I think we try to over complicate things too much. Why do we need all these exotic chemicals when natural is just as good or better in some instances.

I do believe it will be ... lost wisdom... or knowledge on our part in several ways.

We rely on the technology of today to tell us the same types of things that they engraved onto stone star maps and geoglyphs so in this regard... we have lost the way or the know how "knowledge" to do it ourselves. Yeah there are still a few many knowledgeable in ancient ways but not enough. What happens when they are gone? We rely on the data which has been saved on our high end technology that must be maintained...

& the second notion is that we... just as they... won't be able to perfectly preserve the information for the future generational life forms here on earth. I picture it forever being a mystery for the next ones to also ponder and search for answers to the ancient history and existence just as we do now today.

In my mind I envision the search for all the answers as an ongoing quest regardless of what we or our future heirs try to do.

What will be interesting to me is to see what form the new method of obtaining and retaining this knowledge will be in the distant future... what will it evolve into ?

leolady

reply to post by SLAYER69


I truly believe this to be some of the ancient knowledge and secrets taught to man by the fallen angels and or watchers. The bible speaks clearly about this knowledge given to ancient man.

Also this is a very small portion of the astrological information given to mankind basically as a gift for the exchange for worship and human women these beings took as wives to create there hybrid nephilim race of giants. Half angelic half humans who at one point became so prominant in the ancient world and so wicked in their ways that Jehovah God had no choice but to cause the flood to eliminate as many of these beings as possible. I bleive the fallen survived of course but most of the nephilim along with human life was eradicated.

Nice post though it is fascinating to see how people were able to use and pass down most of this knowledge to future generations.

My faith is very strong so please save the bashing we are all entitled to our beliefs and mine are that these beings while living openly in the old world are the source of this knowledge. I just don't given humans that much credit , they had help at some point.

Who or where the knowledge camefrom is up for debate of course.