The three unclean spirits

Originally posted by truejew
Again, we are not a cult.

Yes you are.

cult /kəlt/ Noun
1 - A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2 - A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

What is a cult?

The 'pastor', Gary Reckhart, lies a lot He talked about building a temple that has the names of the apostles in the foundation and the name of Jesus in it and that no other church in the world has done this. That's hogwash. Catholic Basilicas do that all the time. And they have the actual relics from the apostles that they have put in the foundations of the altars.

reply to post by Deetermined


Riiight...

I always seem to forget that Jesus went from being evil to righteous... And canceled his Fathers original commands and laws for better ones...

Geez... *facepalm* That always seems to skip my mind

Originally posted by Deetermined
Yet, at the same time, it's also the only book that specifically states this...

It's just a threat. It might be from God. It might not be. I can make up threats too.
That doesn't mean that what I say is from God. Ya' know??

reply to post by Akragon


Everything is appointed for it's time and purpose.

Not to mention, it still proves that it doesn't matter if God comes in wrath or in peace, those who don't recognize him won't, regardless.

Just don't expect Jesus to be returning in peace when the Bible says he'll return to judge and make war, the peace will come after the war is over.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Everything is appointed for it's time and purpose.

Not to mention, it still proves that it doesn't matter if God comes in wrath or in peace, those who don't recognize him won't, regardless.

Just don't expect Jesus to be returning in peace when the Bible says he'll return to judge and make war, the peace will come after the war is over.

Yeh... good old revelation eh...

Considering how many threads there are about Islam these days... Don't you find that statement sounds very...

I don't know.... Muslim?

reply to post by FlyersFan


I think those who ignore what's written in the Bible are doing themselves a disservice based on the prophecy that's already been fulfilled, but ultimately the proof won't be in the pudding until it's over and it can't be changed.

reply to post by Akragon

Yeh... good old revelation eh...

Considering how many threads there are about Islam these days... Don't you find that statement sounds very...

I don't know.... Muslim?

You think it's an accident that both the Bible and the Qu'ran layout a similar blueprint of what's going to happen?! Regardless of what you think of Islam or Muhammad, God used it/him to fulfill his prophecy of every nation turning against Israel. God uses everyone towards his purpose, not their own.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Yeh... good old revelation eh...

Considering how many threads there are about Islam these days... Don't you find that statement sounds very...

I don't know.... Muslim?

You think it's an accident that both the Bible and the Qu'ran layout a similar blueprint of what's going to happen?! Regardless of what you think of Islam or Muhammad, God used it/him to fulfill his prophecy of every nation turning against Israel. God uses everyone towards his purpose, not their own.

Actually no... I think it was very purposeful that this God of the OT uses the two most Violent religions in the history of man kind to further its agenda...

Interestingly enough... Jesus didn't play along with the "God of this world"... yet neither religion realises it...

Even to this day...

And sadly enough most Christians will pretty much use anything they can think of to support the idea of linking the Old with the New... Even reject the fact that Jesus was a peaceful man...

And try to back that idea with crap from revelation...

*sigh*

Whatever though

reply to post by Akragon

So is that an open declaration that the Ancient religion that Christianity is based around was not following God?

Sounds about right to me...

And Deetermined quoted the actual verse:

Is 19:14 Yahweh has mixed a spirit of perverseness in the midst of her; and they have caused Egypt to go astray in all of its works, like a drunken man staggers in his vomit.

That's the MO. Many times it is written that he causes Jerusalem to become a wine of madness to the nations.

As much as I don't particularly care for Revelation, at least the OP identifies the groups of people that are effected by Yahweh's wine of madness resulting in obsession over Jerusalem.

reply to post by Akragon

Interestingly enough... Jesus didn't play along with the "God of this world"... yet neither religion realises it..

He didn't play along? Jesus said he came to fulfill the scriptures. The scriptures that were written about him by the followers of Yahweh. He absolutely played along with the God of the Old Testament, even unto his own death, because he was the God of the Old Testament unbeknownst to the ones who helped to fulfill the scriptures.

This is another reason that I tell you that God uses all people towards his greater purpose and not their own.

The "God of this world" as you put it is Satan, not Yahweh, but I know you like to insinuate as much.

reply to post by Akragon

Actually no... I think it was very purposeful that this God of the OT uses the two most Violent religions in the history of man kind to further its agenda...

You obviously don't understand what the agenda is.

The agenda is that until everyone chooses to follow God and accept him as their Savior, he will allow all of them to kill each other until they wake up and smell the coffee! That's the agenda! They can't save themselves! God's going to step in and do it for them and show them how hard headed and stubborn they have been about rejecting him!

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Interestingly enough... Jesus didn't play along with the "God of this world"... yet neither religion realises it..

He didn't play along? Jesus said he came to fulfill the scriptures. The scriptures that were written about him by the followers of Yahweh. He absolutely played along with the God of the Old Testament, even unto his own death, because he was the God of the Old Testament unbeknownst to the ones who helped to fulfill the scriptures.

This is another reason that I tell you that God uses all people towards his greater purpose and not their own.

The "God of this world" as you put it is Satan, not Yahweh, but I know you like to insinuate as much.

edit on 15-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Ya... i'll just let you believe whatever you like... I'm completely sick of having this argument...

IF you believe he played along with the OT God... then you're happy in your ignorance...

So be it...

You obviously don't understand what the agenda is.

The agenda is that until everyone chooses to follow God and accept him as their Savior, he will allow all of them to kill each other until they wake up and smell the coffee! That's the agenda! They can't save themselves! God's going to step in and do it for them and show them how hard headed and stubborn they have been about rejecting him!

Again... doesn't that sound very muslim?

Everyone must follow the Christian God or there will be hell to pay....

Frankly I find this idea repulsive from both religions...

And the idea that Jesus WAS the OT God is completely disgusting...

But again... Whatever.... believe what you will

reply to post by Deetermined

The agenda is that until everyone chooses to follow God and accept him as their Savior, he will allow all of them to kill each other until they wake up and smell the coffee! That's the agenda! They can't save themselves! God's going to step in and do it for them and show them how hard headed and stubborn they have been about rejecting him!

On another thread, I went through a bit about prophecies before the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon. People refuse to recognize that the time passed for those prophecies and many dooms went unfulfilled. Rather than recognizing the falseness of the prophecy, they insist that it must still happen in the future.

So the agenda becomes the people's agenda, and they bring it about themselves. So here is Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 25: 17 Then took I the cup at Yahweh’s hand, and made all the nations to drink, to whom Yahweh had sent me: 18 Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and its kings, and its princes, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, a hissing, and a curse, as it is this day; 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people; 20 and all the mixed people, and all the kings of the land of the Uz, and all the kings of the Philistines, and Ashkelon, and Gaza, and Ekron, and the remnant of Ashdod; 21 Edom, and Moab, and the children of Ammon; 22 and all the kings of Tyre, and all the kings of Sidon, and the kings of the isle which is beyond the sea; 23 Dedan, and Tema, and Buz, and all who have the corners of their beard cut off; 24 and all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mixed people who dwell in the wilderness; 25 and all the kings of Zimri, and all the kings of Elam, and all the kings of the Medes; 26 and all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another; and all the kingdoms of the world, which are on the surface of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them. 27 You shall tell them, Thus says Yahweh of Armies, the God of Israel: Drink, and be drunk, vomit, fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you. 28 It shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at your hand to drink, then you shall tell them, Thus says Yahweh of Armies: You shall surely drink. 29 For, behold, I begin to work evil at the city which is called by my name; and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished; for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth, says Yahweh of Armies. 30 Therefore prophesy you against them all these words, and tell them, Yahweh will roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he will mightily roar against his fold; he will give a shout, as those who tread grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. 31 A noise shall come even to the end of the earth; for Yahweh has a controversy with the nations; he will enter into judgment with all flesh: as for the wicked, he will give them to the sword, says Yahweh. 32 Thus says Yahweh of Armies, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great storm shall be raised up from the uttermost parts of the earth. 33 The slain of Yahweh shall be at that day from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung on the surface of the ground. 34 Wail, you shepherds, and cry; and wallow in dust, you principal of the flock; for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are fully come, and you shall fall like a goodly vessel. 35 The shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape. 36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and the wailing of the principal of the flock! for Yahweh lays waste their pasture. 37 The peaceable folds are brought to silence because of the fierce anger of Yahweh. 38 He has left his covert, as the lion; for their land has become an astonishment because of the fierceness of the oppression, and because of his fierce anger.
-WEB

Notice verse 32, evil going forth from nation to nation, that seems related to the OP and the revelation verses of unclean spirits like frogs. Notice also verse 37, even the peaceful folds are brought to silence because of the fierce anger of Yahweh.

I'm one of the people who says, "Huh, the prophecy was wrong in many respects" Now it's other people who say, "No, this must happen! We'll just keep doing it over and over again until all is destroyed as it is written."

Originally posted by Deetermined
You think it's an accident that both the Bible and the Qu'ran layout a similar blueprint of what's going to happen?!

OF COURSE it's going to be similar. Muhammad STOLE bits and pieces from the Jews and Christians and Pagans and Zorostrians when he invented his religion. So naturally some of it is going to sound familiar. But the fact that he Qu'ran sounds familiar to what the Christians or Jews or Pagans have doesn't validate Islam nor does it validate the Christians or Jews or Pagans. It just means that Muhammad plagiarized.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
one were the writing of "YHWH" does not match the rest of the writing in the source.

What is your evidence of this? Do you have a scan that demonstrates it?

Because there is a logical flaw in your claim and a reasonable explanation for it, if it's true. The logical flaw is that the scrolls can't really be tampered with after the fact, because there wouldn't be physical space to put in an extra word.

The reasonable explanation is that YHWH is a different sort of word, being the name of God, so it seems reasonable that it WOULD be written differently -- either in a special script, or perhaps it had to be written down by a priest, while the rest of the text could be written by an ordinary scribe.

You can find the scan by doing an Internet search.

Okay, so your answer is "no" -- you have no evidence for your position, and we're just supposed to take the word of someone who has no evidence over actual evidence that is contrary to your non-evidence. Think I'll pass, thank you very much.

And, since you've ignored a direct request three times, I can come to the conclusion that you have no evidence for the claims made in your opening post, either. Next time you think you have an "insight", do try and think through what a critically thinking person is going to find wrong with it.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Deetermined

 

We've already proven how Yahweh (YHWH) is Jesus.

Back to the study board for you.

"Jehoshua" means "Yehova is salvation".

"Yeshua" in Hebrew is verbal derivative from "to rescue", "to deliver". It could also be construed as "savior" or "saved".

Why would he be given a name that doesn't explicitly label him as a physical incarnation of YHWH? At best, it refers to apparently himself in the third person. That's a little odd, don't you think? Like they are separate entities and Jesus was merely a walking, talking arrow intended to promote YHWH's plan for humanity.

Well, thats actually a little inaccurate because languages change slightly over time.

Yahweh means "the Lifted High, this One is Comforter of"

Yahshuweh means "the Lifted High, this is Comforter of Salvation"

Which is where the man Jesus keeps talking about "my Father". Jesus is our Comforter, and his Father is his Comforter. The Father's name is in the Son of God's name.

Isaiah 8:1 "wayyumer (Now saith) Yahweh (The Lifted High, this One is Comforter of) elay (then) qah (take) leka (unto this it became) gillayuwn (a tablet) gaduwt (large and rolled) uketub (and write more) alaw (against the accursed one) beheret (words) enuwus (ordinary in size) le (of) maher (desirous in killing) salal (to ruin them) has (rush) baz (swifty)."

For which Jesus said:

John 8:21-30

21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”

22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.

28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. 29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.

The Comforter of Salvation is the Lifted High. Lifted High because he would be crucified and he knew it from the beginning of creation. Over and over in the OT he says he has declared it from the beginning. You're like the people who didn't listen to him way back then.

BTW, modern hebrew is not the exact same as ancient hebrew and chaldean ideogrammatical language Abraham spoke. Changes in langauge occur when two different peoples come into contact, like the Israelites and Egyptians. Much like today, how the British have different words than Americans do and when they start using words we have never heard or throwing down slang, you have no idea what theyre talking about, it's like a totally different language. Like comparing Ebonics to modern english.

See the difference in the evolution of language.









YHWH and IEUE evolved from the same root symbols. Theyre both correct.
There is only One God, and he and Jesus are One and the same person which is what the Temple, and Ark of the Covenant signify.

the man Jesus, the Ark of Testimony and Temple

reply to post by FlyersFan

OF COURSE it's going to be similar. Muhammad STOLE bits and pieces from the Jews and Christians and Pagans and Zorostrians when he invented his religion. So naturally some of it is going to sound familiar. But the fact that he Qu'ran sounds familiar to what the Christians or Jews or Pagans have doesn't validate Islam nor does it validate the Christians or Jews or Pagans. It just means that Muhammad plagiarized.

Any way you look at it, prophecy is playing out for God's greater purpose regardless.

Now we just have to wait and see who's ending fulfilled which prophecy.

The Bible always told us to look towards Jerusalem and Israel for what's to come and that's what's happening.

Whether people think that other people are trying to fulfill them on their own doesn't matter. They were written and they will happen.

reply to post by pthena

I'm one of the people who says, "Huh, the prophecy was wrong in many respects"

How so?

reply to post by pthena


Prophecy is never wrong. Your interpretation of prophecy is what is wrong. Take when the Lord told Elijah to tell Ahab that he would die and the dogs would lick up his blood. That prophecy did happen, just not the way Ahab thought. Ahab lost a battle with a king of Syria, he was wounded and later died. When the servants were washing out his chariot, his blood spilled into a pool that some whores were bathing in and dogs came and licked up the bloody water. It happened, just not the way Ahab was imagining it would because people take stuff too literal.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

You do realize that the word "av'eh" is only used ONCE in the entire Bible, in this particular verse?

Isaiah 19:14

14 The Lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.

So, you've obviously mistaken this word for something that it was not.

That it is only used once in Scripture, does not change the definition of the word.