It shouldn't matter if you aren't doing anything wrong

Originally posted by PhyberDragon1
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I've never believed in privacy. From a very young age I've always assumed someone, somewhere knows what I'm doing. Even if it's a God or beings I can't see. I even figured someone, somewhere, knew what I threw away in the trash. It's not that I'm not doing anything wrong. I do things that are wrong all the time. It's just that I don't care. There is nothing about me I wouldn't tell my own family and friends. Nothing. And, I have done some pretty embarrassing things when I'm alone. I don't care if my government knows me better than I know myself, life is change and what they think they know today may not be the case tomorrow. They are bound to the same law I am. Law is not the words written with the ink of a dead plant onto the pulp of a dead tree miles away from me. It is not the officer patrolling across town, blocks away. We are the law. We being me and the man with the knife to my throat at the pier on an empty beach at night. We say what we are free to do and if we do nothing we are free to do that, too. That is the only law that truly exists. Privacy is an illusion, the sooner you shake it off, the better off you will be. In my opinion.

edit on 8-6-2013 by PhyberDragon1 because: punctuation

Again, it's not about being afraid. It's not about me being worried that the government will see what I do or know what I think, because I don't break the law, and quite frankly I don't give a %$!@ how the government feels about my opinions.

It's about the potential for abuse. If the people leave that potential left unchecked and simply let the government have it, they are making a grave mistake for their future and their childrens future. The government may not abuse that power today, and it may not abuse it tomorrow. But the fact they have it as an option means they will abuse it eventually. It's inevitable. Why this isn't an issue to more people is beyond me.

What most people fail to realize is doing something "wrong" is all a matter of perspective.

Depending who is in charge being an atheist or a devout catholic could both be wrong. Being a liberal or a conservative could be wrong. Being intelligent or stupid could be wrong. Being gay or straight.

Nobody is liked by every body, and most people have at least one enemy. Allowing everyone to know everything about everyone is a recipe for conflict and persecution period.

Only an arrogant, ignorant fool isn't bothered by this. Unfortunately that may well describe the majority of the American population today.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


If the concern is for how the information is used, then, perhaps, the citizens should petition that the US Constitution should be amended to read: The government shall pass no law that applies to the citizens that does not also apply to the government; and, the government shall pass no law that applies to the government that does not also apply to the citizens.

Im in agreement broadly speaking. Its a very bad thing that the US gov are spying on everyone. No question about that. All im saying is its old news, secondly im not that bothered personally as I dont live in the states..and if it ends up that TPTB decide the average joe in the street is a threat because they are a member of ATS, which lets face it, this site will probably be considered subversive by lots of powerful people anyway...Well if it happens that way, then were all f**ked...haha..but Hitler went after Jews and anyone who had a big nose, no joke, Nazis actually went around measuring noses...So if it comes down to it, and they want to go after everyone for trumped up reasons..then there isn't much you can do about it..other than get out of your open prison, whilst you still can.....and getting up a full head of steam and blowing off hot air on message boards, is worthless and may well be counter productive..like I said they are watching you..muhahaha..

This "leak" is BS, they leaked it for a reason, Obama coming out with...some cr4p "now the bad guys will all go offline" please, like they were ever online to begin with...at least i highly doubt they were..I mean one minute were told they live in caves in Afghanistan and the next were supposed to believe they are all on facebook....exactly...Bu775hi7...

This surveillance was public knowledge from day one...whats really going on here, is the US gov are reinforcing the message.."WE ARE WATCHING YOU, THE PEOPLE", the only reason to reinforce this message, is to cause mass paranoia and anxiety...and quite possibly to stir up some backlash? Put it this way, this leak is not a leak...there is reason this message is being put out there...I mean lets say you had a very personal diary..and a big bully comes along and says they read every page..why would they tell you that? The only reason i can think of is to really p155 you off and perhaps provoke you into a fight you will certainly lose, getting your 455 handed to you..

The population is in a no win situation with this..they wont win in a fight, obviously, and they wont give up their computers and cell phones...and its as simple as that. The only thing to do is keep on keeping on and keep taking this cr4p because there is no feasible alternative other than opting out of society... thats the only way to win your freedom...its the simple life or big brother, choice is yours, ranting about how evil it all is it a waste of time and may well land you in trouble for voicing dissent...and thats how its going..so if you dont like it, get out, whilst you still can because these things tend to get a whole hell of a lot worse before they get better..

OR YOU CAN ALWAYS CHANGE EVERYTHING BY VOTING HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by stars15k
I am shocked at the government for what they are doing, but...there is nothing I do online (or off ) that I would be concerned someone else knew. I'm one of the ones that think it doesn't matter if I'm not doing anything wrong. I have seen little here or anywhere else online that anyone says or does that would be something the government or anyone else really would care about. I am not a believer in conspiracies, so am not the least bit paranoid; I have the webcam lens covered with black tape to prevent a really unflattering picture being captured. Webcams are at a really, really bad angle.

What bothers me the most is the tremendous amount of equipment and people it takes to wade through the mundane crap they are "spying on." It's a big waste of time and money.

The problem is that, with the information they have on you, they can implicate you in any crime, in any way they see fit. By using your information against you.

It's the same with cops. People who think they have nothing to hide, end up giving cops information that can be used against them! Whereas, with this new level of privacy intrusion, ALL of your information is made available to law enforcement, and it man ALL be used against you.

For instance, a cop is killed in your city. They can generate a list, of all the people in the area, who have voiced anger about law enforcement. Your name could be on the list!
A terrorist attack? Generate a list of people in the area, who are anti-government. They can take their pick and use ANYONE as a scapegoat. It's motives galore!

ANY information in the hands of Law enforcement, and Government is bad news regardless if you're innocent or guilty.

Originally posted by PhyberDragon1
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

If the concern is for how the information is used, then, perhaps, the citizens should petition that the US Constitution should be amended to read: The government shall pass no law that applies to the citizens that does not also apply to the government; and, the government shall pass no law that applies to the government that does not also apply to the citizens.

edit on 8-6-2013 by PhyberDragon1 because: punctuation

As long as corporations pay to fund political campaigns, your presidents are in the pockets of big business...and this is not going to change..Obama may even have entered the White house with good intentions, for all i know, but good intentions go out the window when your coerced into playing ball. Put it this way seeing as his presidency has followed on in the same direction as Bushes...then its clear Obama is not running the country..someone else is..OBVIOUSLY. ..And people who rant about Obama are deluded...the next guy will do the same cr4p...OBVIOUSLY...or maybe they will mix things up a little and put a woman in charge...except it will be the same cr4p...Its the same thing in the UK...and has been for decades...Rupert Murdoch had more power in this country than the prime ministers...hell he picked them at will and pretty much told them you either play ball or you dont get elected...He owned the media here, the propaganda campaign. State run propaganda is bad enough but privately owned corporate media is even worse, as their agenda has zero to benefit anyone but themselves...At least the communists knew they had to keep control of the propaganda...

Everyone needs to stick their TV in the garbage..but they wont...they know its like crack...but their addicted to it and all the BS and lies along with the reality....end of...

Also in the UK now..its worse than ever I can remember...there is not even the facade of an opposition political party..its an unfunny joke. Two elitist, privately educated men, pretend to face off against each other with their supposedly different ideologies for running the country...I mean the system here doesn't even try to fake people out anymore..its just like look, you have no choice who governs you..its a two party state...and if another party comes to be popular like UKIP because thats whats happening...well I guarantee they will follow the same agenda...and its all about money...and looking after the rich and big business....all the political parties we get to hear of have to be funded in order to form and to maintain themselves year after year..that money has to come from somewhere...and then all the commercials etc...who do you think funds all that cr4p...Murdoch funded the tory party who were considered to be more right wing..similar to the republican party...then when he got bored of the torys or because they were not living up to his agenda he made sure the public turned against them and he made a deal with Tony Blair in private and backed him and his supposedly left wing labor party instead (the ones who joined the Iraq war..how very left wing of them). See its all complete and utter BU775Hi7.

The world is run by corporations and the mega rich...they pick the puppet governments...look no further than the economic fiasco..where they all bowed to the banksters...all the governments especially in the west..ohh we better throw them more money to gamble with..and make the population pay for it all...or else they will pull the rug beneath our feet..its woeful.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I have started to feel like being on the internet is doing something wrong. The fact that I also visit these types of sites throws in the feeling of guilt by being on these sties. Now that I think about it I think it stems from the stereotype that conspiracy theorists or even just it's readers are "crazy" and that is what the general populace thinks. I wonder what type of mental illness this is can be called.

reply to post by TheBlackHat

I was watching out the window of my old apartment once and looked out across all the rooftops. Then, I started thinking about all the rooftops in the world. Then, I started thinking of the "firsts" of what we consider a civilization and what they have evolved to now and it's overwhelming to think someone can wrap their head around enough of it to get so much figured out and done, much less done the way they want it. I wouldn't even know where to begin out-thinking that.

It is as Orwell says, "all animals are equal, but, some animals are more equal than others." I figure make all people equal and none more equal than others. Maybe, there's a good reason why that shouldn't be done, but, I can't think of any. I don't know that it would solve the problem, but, maybe, it might curb it.

The information is there and, like everything else in the history of the world, it is there to be taken. From the moment it was created it was taken. One way or another someone will take the information, whether they have permission. Before they could collect information on the internet, someone had to collect it so that it could be collected, it was taken from it's birth. When it comes to civilization, you cannot stop good and bad, right and wrong from playing out, you can only even the game.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." --4th Amendment, US Constitution. The problem is, I think, the 13th Amendment-- "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. (and) Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." They have a blanket authority to implement you in a blanket crime, rendering your rights to that of a slave or an involuntary servant. In order to be convicted, you must first be investigated and a warrant shall issue to give law enforcement access to your persons, houses, papers, and effects, so, secret courts grant secret warrants when they don't do it publicly and, then, they send a request, sometimes they will be allowed to collect the information without telling anyone it's being collected, sometimes they'll have to ask, but, get to do it in secret, other times, they have to make a request that anyone can see. I could have it all wrong, but, I figure something like that is going on.

We live in the time of indefinite conflicts and the only solution is to find a way to resolve the conflicts. If we can't control the collection of information, maybe, we can make the rules equal for all.

The line being trotted out by the leaders on this subject is Privacy VS Security, If you want the latter you got to give up some of the former.
So in other words there is nothing we can do.

Even if there was a Widescale revolution and the Gov held their hands up and said ''okay okay we will look into it/back off''

You may briefly get more privacy but expect a big hit in the security area which in turn would make need for more security. Yes.

As for peoples flippant comments on the subject I think a lot of people DO suspect they have been doing this forever they just don't want to hear (and will refuse to) that any of it would be used to harm them.
So far they are kind of right, why fear when there is no reprisals.

Thats my two cents

reply to post by Taggart


I would just like to add my two cents: if you are doing anything right, you are likely to be targeted. Also, totally bad plan for national security to completely gut the Constitution. Talk about losing your credibility.

There is always a way around an obstacle and there will be many people who will come up with ways to do this.

I've read some here and have a few ideas of my own, however, with the ears listening and eyes watching, I don't want anyone to offer any more suggestions that might be a work-around.

We should be able to keep a secret better than they can (it seems).

Originally posted by pirhanna
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I've talked about it with real-life (non internet) people the last 2 days. The reactions ranged from trying to make fun of me by saying that I'm predicting they are going to put trackers in my d*** to pretending I didn't say anything, to anything else that could get them to not talk about what is actually happening. Its unbelievable how far people will go to avoid TALKING about it.

Does anyone else find this to be disconcerting?

Star, toothy trooper: more like unsettling as a dessert of crushed glass. The brainwashing
required to maintain a 'normalcy bias' becomes less each generation, because recognizing
the increasing level of outlandish behavior by the government becomes more difficult to a
normal personality. Add to this an incremental definition of 'Normal" becoming more like
Jack with a fire axe every year.

I fear after the NDAA and maybe before, a vast majority of Americans just can't process
the possibility their governmental 'parents' could be excecuting as evil an agenda as it is
more obviously appearing. Worse, the speed / smell of it is making catch-up pretty much
impossible by now. People I know and have all my adult life are half of them shut down now.

As before, I'll describe one of my three oldest friends with a recent PhD in Political Science
and a 30+ year career in the state mental health hive...he still can't even conceive there
aren't any more Article Three courts. For that I fear he will either do badly at the collapse or
get some brain damage snapping out of a forty year sleep.

What's the alternative? I'd rather die disillusioned than deceived. Can't go back now, eh?

Cause for hope: I'm hearing a lot less reinforcemt by tribalism for it..."That can't
happen here, this is the BlahBlah of Wherever." It's getting harder all the time
for anyone to look around and not pop thier own bubble, thank God.

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by stars15k

I am shocked ... --- truncated for brevity's sake ---
What bothers me the most is the tremendous amount of equipment and people it takes to wade through the mundane crap they are "spying on." It's a big waste of time and money.

The problem is that, with the information they have on you, they can implicate you in any crime, in any way they see fit. By using your information against you.

It's the same with cops. ---truncated for brevity's sake ---

A terrorist attack? Generate a list of people in the area, who are anti-government. They can take their pick and use ANYONE as a scapegoat. It's motives galore!

ANY information in the hands of Law enforcement, and Government is bad news regardless if you're innocent or guilty.

edit on 8-6-2013 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)

Bold emphasis and my apologies for truncating your post; but the spirit remains.
When government corruption becomes incrementally normal, normal behavior by the citizenry
becomes necessarily more criminalized for the sake of protecting the real criminals.
in other words, Ashcroft saying in late 2001 that everybody is a suspect now was right!
Criminal or more ground -down slave every minute. Where's our line in the flouridated sand?

I've heard similar sentiments parroted here on ATS. The idea that we shouldn't be bothered by infringements on our civil liberties if we aren't doing anything wrong.

I have to say I'm vehemently against what's going on....
but the fact is there is no right to privacy in the Constitution.

Now if we wanted it in the Constitution, maybe we all should've done something about it a long time ago, before it was too late.

reply to post by Ghost375
What constitution are you reading?

The U.S. Supreme Court has found that the Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy against governmental intrusion. This right to privacy has been the justification for decisions involving a wide range of civil liberties cases, including Pierce v. Society of Sisters, which invalidated a successful 1922 Oregon initiative requiring compulsory public education, Griswold v. Connecticut, where a right to privacy was first established explicitly, Roe v. Wade, which struck down a Texas abortion law and thus restricted state powers to enforce laws against abortion, and Lawrence v. Texas, which struck down a Texas sodomy law and thus eliminated state powers to enforce laws against sodomy.

As a matter of fact, unless you are a public figure, you can civily sue people, not just the government, for invading your privacy.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Ghost375

 

What constitution are you reading?

The U.S. Supreme Court has found that the Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy against governmental intrusion. This right to privacy has been the justification for decisions involving a wide range of civil liberties cases, including Pierce v. Society of Sisters, which invalidated a successful 1922 Oregon initiative requiring compulsory public education, Griswold v. Connecticut, where a right to privacy was first established explicitly, Roe v. Wade, which struck down a Texas abortion law and thus restricted state powers to enforce laws against abortion, and Lawrence v. Texas, which struck down a Texas sodomy law and thus eliminated state powers to enforce laws against sodomy.

As a matter of fact, unless you are a public figure, you can civily sue people, not just the government, for invading your privacy.

Hmmm...but which Bill of Right specifically were these cases decided on?.

reply to post by ButterCookie

The fourth amendment grants you the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, and technically the ninth amendment.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Its not shocking at all. Its so blatenly Obviously. LOL

It takes Anon to actually pull the curtain Like this.



Most of us on Ats already knew about this. But for the normal citizens it might be a wake up call. We may get an influx of new members.

I say all power to em.
> : )

reply to post by DeadSeraph


many aspects to this.

it's wrong yet we know they do it. on the one hand it is their job. any agency named national security will go ahead and obviously do these things. can't be mad at them even. understand their position.

but i am definitely not in that camp. i do not consent to searches. if they were spying on me (which they are, duh) they would see an astonishing amount of porn sites visited. i would hate that job, watching ppl watch porn all day lmao!

what i'd like to address is the fact that it yields no results. none to justify it's use. who ever heard of this crap stopping alleged terror? how many of the last alleged terror attacks were stopped? well since they happened, i'm gonna say none. or maybe the real ones (if ever there were such a thing) are stopped and all we see is false flags which were allowed because they were scripted. no murders or robberies or even bad moods are stopped. they want the power of omnipresence but don't want the responsibility.

you can argue every side of this til u slip into a coma. it's enough to brain damage stephen hawking.

i heard someone say it'd be a logistical nightmare, too many ppl, too much data. they can't do it. i know you're just saying what they paid you to, but just in case you're serious, look up this new thing everyone's talking about called software, works wonders numbskulls.

i have no fb, i have 50 email addresses (exaggeration). i've been avoiding verizon and (frankly) every corp on that list for years. it's no protection i'm sure, but i don't play. i take every precaution because i do not consent. i will fight with every choice i make to strive for freedom. most of you idiots are all like, "i hate it, i wish they'd stop." then you go write something only you think is witty on ur fb wall. you all get the darwin award for excellence in the face of idiocy. or i should say you will very soon.

all of you need to download everything you can before they shut us off. the end of prism only is here because they have something infinitely more advanced already ready already. it's goin down. while you can, use keepvid to save every documentary and lecture from youtube. use torrents, get ebooks, get 3d objects. store it on external devices or better yet, cds or dvds. forewarned is forearmed, better overprecautious than underprepared. learn how to grow food. learn how to be free!

btw i am entirely against violence (and suspect this coming revolution is scripted) but everyone should have a copy of the cookbook. everyone should learn about free energy. everyone should love each other but never slip. never ever slip, vultures abound. free will is real and you enslave yourself.

When asked if he could assure the committee that phones of those in Congress were not monitored, Holder refused to answer the question, saying the current time was inappropriate to discuss the topic.

I would like to see the phone and Email data that was collected from Congress, the White House and DOJ. Let’s see who calls who before and after legislation is voted on. Which lobbyists and corporations are called first? Who did Diane Feinstein call before her husband Richard Blum, won the first phase construction contract for the California high speed rail. SHOW ME THE METADATA.