It shouldn't matter if you aren't doing anything wrong

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Two more absolutely great rants.

Kudos to you.

Now I know why hair will stand up on your arms/neck/nape/body in general.
Pay attention people to these vibes because they are real and the threat is very very real.

Great thread and lord save us please.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by TDawgRex


Oh and dont forget..I still see people even on this very thread..saying "vote" to make a change...hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha, seriously people even on this website still promoting the concept of voting for change, when they voted out Bush and replaced him with Obama, as if they shouldn't have figured out decades ago that they are all the same, the fact Obama is supposedly a democrat yet he has kept on with a Republicans game plan....except even more so.....I just want the hell away from the whole lot of everyone....as soon as I can get away to the wilderness, im off.

The government is only doing what governments always do once they see people are to stupid to care..its the people that are the problem, in this scenario. And as I said the people, and I do mean millions of them, are way beyond help or hope. You have a society now, that encourages school kids..and i dont even mean teenagers.. to go on facebook, because their parents don't want them to miss out...

I cant even imagine growing up these days...probably bullied if your not on facebook..then you can have your ideas of sex warped beyond all vistas, with the easily accessible online hardcore porno. We have gone well beyond the tipping point. Like I said sheeple doesnt even come close, the walking dead isnt a TV show, its real life.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Uh... if we are finding out about the massive surveillance, I'm guessing the govt. has moved on to its next project and either has all the surveillance it needs, or already has the system in place.

The government had to keep it out of the mainstream focus until the project was completed.

So... I take the sign of the surveillance programs being admitted to as a sign that another phase is starting.

ALSO - didn't this all happen JUST after the Bilderburg meeting on June 6th?

So transparent - either the government is dropping surveillance (unlikely) or they are moving on to the next step and using it as a distraction etc.

up unitill the other day..the govt never admitted to spying on all its people all the time..untill then that type of thought was just wacko fringe conspiracy crap....it doesnt matter that some of us knew or assumed all along...what matters is ,, that for some reason all this info is coming out now..the govt has had to say .."yep, you guys were right.. shucks'

the sheople have been blinded by govt and business..thru 'fun things' thru keeping the sheople totally involved in day to day concerns..keeping them from having the time or drive to look deeper into what is happening. i have a full time job and a 'life' outside work but i choose to keep up with what is going on in the world today, which takes time..and time is what TPTB what to keep from you.. if you are not working, you are working or playing stupid tivial things that are suppose to enrich us, make things better when all the time it degrades the spirit, it blinds you to the past, it cover your eyes to the future, it takes any real control from you.......all for govt control....dont ask questions, dont look too deep, dont question the govt ways..as long as you trust that the govt is doing the right thing for you..all will be ok.

all the spying is just another stepping stone, just another training ground for TPTB..all at your expense..we pay for that which enslaves and spies on us..how ironic

society may be slooooowly waking up, but they are waking up way to late, waking up into a world where they have no say or power anymore...sorta like a rollercoaster with out an end

reply to post by Raxoxane


Wow, thanks. As an outsider your perspective is appreciated - plus you have seen similar things. I try to deny where I think this is headed every day, but it is rather simple if you take a look at the direction things are going - I doubt it will suddenly turn around or stop.

I think people is America have a view that they are immune to any kind of major crisis just because they are American. They may not even fully grasp the idea of what it would be like.

reply to post by clearmind

Sorry, but society is not slowly waking up one bit...Society is f**ed and has been for some years now...In fact not only have we been witnessing the global economic collapse, but what we are also living through is the collapse of our civilization..We have the likes of Richard Dawkins offering us a Godless world view...I mean im agnostic myself, but to commit yourself to being an all out atheist, which many are choosing to be these days, well whats the point in a life with zero point what so ever..I mean at least I have a hope their might be some point to it all...but looking into the abyss with no point or hope well that says it all...Thats why everyone's chasing the material life ..now, me, me , me...and to hell with any substance...To hell with the family unit...To hell with morality or responsibility...and who cares about privacy either...f**k it. thats the modern mentality.

Unlike east Germany where the secret police spied on everyone, and people had to whisper in their own homes...what we have is a society where everyone freely blabs about their entire life online...most of it is absolute garbage and trivial cr4p of course but still worth sifting through the sewage in order to look for the supposed gold dust, that probably isnt there anyhow...

The fact we have a surveillance state, is yet another indication that we are nearing the end and collapse of civilization..because the communists did this stuff, it was borne out of paranoia and totalitarianism..those mentalities never last, because if the government is this paranoid, it will lead to a fragmented government where politicians and the higher ups start wondering about each-other like Stalin did... He bumped off most of his own government, through being that paranoid as well as millions and millions of the soviet people.

When a government needs to spy on ALL its own people, its over, there is no civilization, because by definition spying on everyone is uncivilized and a police state.

The fact Obama has admitted the government spies on the entire population and no doubt the entire world that uses the internet. Then we finally have the official confirmation that the USA is a fully fledged police state. there is no getting around it anymore or calling people nuts for calling a spade a spade. All those fools living in denial will still live in denial...because they are beyond all hope.

It's is so hard to be original in forum because of this monitoring. Even deletions before posting get criticized. Most of the time it feels like I am being critiqued by a 20 year old button pushing Navy or Air Force employee in a gigantic fiber optic connected floor of surveillance. Think about how it makes me feel, when the two lines of text come up, I am aware of the little cyber spud on my shoulder denigrating my print along the inflections of no you don't want to say that.

I have deleted lines and threads because of the crowded feeling. It is not a paranoia, it is full knowledge of privacy invasion by a cyber mouth breather in a battery of offices reading the rough drafts waiting to mark up my text with the red pen, like being in school again. Lots of prejudice feeling. It's one thing after the publish button but it is like an itchy fungal infection to have the cyber parasite watch me while I type.

The hardest lie to carry is that it is a secret. The nation has militarized a force to burden free speech. They are in their cell watching, like a chicken in an egg factory trying to lay a golden egg for a promotion. It's a desperate state for a nation.

The only way to win in this world, it to opt out of it. Quit your jobs, quit this technology and get away. I know the US government have a habit of chasing people who set up communities out in the sticks... etc...so basically Id get out of america and find some country where you can live cheaply and where there isnt much infrastructure or invasive technology..south america or somewhere in Africa..then of course you've got to accept third world conditions etc...and there we once again see what it takes to be free, you gotta have some gumption, integrity and guts...something our society have pretty must lost completely because of valuing comfort above freedom.

reply to post by defcon5

And if they still don't believe you, tell them to search up the Boston Marathon and see how the FBI admitted that they were running facial recognition searches against the federal passport, visa, and states drivers license databases.

The average sheep wont even put that much effort into finding out the truth.
Even if you handed them the papers themselves proving it all they would not even bother to read it.
It nearly seems like they are afraid of finding out the truth and rather wants to delude themselves.

reply to post by juleol
If the average sheep has children or grandchildren, ask them what they are going to tell them one day about how they allowed this to happen.

Originally posted by pirhanna
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I've talked about it with real-life (non internet) people the last 2 days. The reactions ranged from trying to make fun of me by saying that I'm predicting they are going to put trackers in my d*** to pretending I didn't say anything, to anything else that could get them to not talk about what is actually happening. Its unbelievable how far people will go to avoid TALKING about it.

Does anyone else find this to be disconcerting?

I totally understand what you are experiencing. I am too.

A relative of mine, one that used to discuss 'conspiracy theories' with years ago, seems to fallen back to his slumber now that its 'out in the open'. It's like as ling as it was 'he-he-he, ha-ha-ha' it was nice to discuss. Now that its real deal, they have become afraid and even said,

"Well, its a brilliant idea to thwart terrorism."

"What???? You are not serious, are you?"

"Yes. I mean, let's face it. If the gov't notices someone on the phone calling overseas a lot, that's suspicious, right?"

"No. Why is that suspicious??"

"Uhhh...well....we've known the gov't spies on us for years. So this is nothing new. They are trying to protect us."

Originally posted by Elostone
What can we do?
We could all unplug.
Personally, I have been thinking about just getting a pre-paid phone that doesn't require personal info. Do all my Internet surfing etc at a public place that has wifi.
I've already closed bank accts and only pay with cash, though it seems big bro is attempting to make that difficult to impossible in some cases.
Work under the table if possible...
Stop using store membership saver cards unless they're in a bogus name.
There are ways to avoid giving personal info out there, you just need to be pro active and creative.
People are too lazy, too dependent on the machine these days to walk away from it.
And THEY (TPTB) know it.
JMHO of course

edit on 7-6-2013 by Elostone because: (no reason given)

I tried the new phone thing. You'll get someone flagging all new numbers and taking roughly three days to take your blank persona and connect it to your well worn identity that you dropped.

Ideally to survive would be to corporatize your life, and put your stuff under a lifestyle management company, with yourself as an agent or business partner. Professional domestic resident, job includes eating, pooping, and sleeping, mowing the lawn, etc. You would get an operating budget plus food but your salary would be like, a dollar. I have seen men become very well taken care of using this method of just a dollar a year. Basically puts a domestic management agency around you, uses a foundation. And it is expandable. It could be a charity, maybe the company could have many houses, have office space. It is generic but government does it all the time making groups to hide their visitors. For example the Texoma council of governments seems like such a setup, with housing as part of their budgets.

Still wouldn't get past government intelligence, and the laws still need following. It's a police state. It's happened in other nations, where things like bibles are banned. The parasitic creep will go on until the spy market is saturated, because the eye is never satisfied with seeing. The thrill of a secret is dead and novelty disappeared. Government plays god trying to see everything.

reply to post by TheBlackHat

The thing is, I know my internet usage is pretty much no different for most of the population. So they aint gonna find much of interest with me or 80-90 percent of everyone else. So their monitoring the entire population is a waste of time. Thats the first point.

You should read up on some data mining patents as that reveales some scary stuff of what is done and possible right now. The software they use to track you is so intrusive that it most likely knows your personality, habits and so on better than yourself.
Their data mining software which google, facebook and so on use can find out alot about your personality even from how you move your mouse cursor when browsing a web page, which google has already patented and is most likely already in use. Most of this is done by you subconsciously, so you arent even aware of it yourself.

And what if you are one day in the wrong spot at the wrong time?? There are pleny of such examples of people being jailed or even sentenced to death over crimes they never committed. Imagine if a murder took place and you just happened to be in that area at that time wearing your cell phone. Criminals would probably be smart enough to leave their cell phone at home...

reply to post by ButterCookie


Maybe your friend is just lying low. Maybe he likes you, but doesn't trust you all the same based upon previous conversations.

Just saying that there is always more going on behind the curtains than in front of them.

I have already added a post about this today. They, the f*#king law makers, can't even tell you how many federal laws there are.
The many failed efforts

And now those laws are going to come back and bite us on the ass.

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Oh I guess I can't resist reacting to such overt provocation. Public insults and all- who could resist bringing forth an equally exaggerated counter argument?

Actually, I don't feel you've put up enough argument behind your position to contend with. I'd need something besides "you're just daft if you are not against this". It's to easy to counter with "You must be a criminal if you're against it."

The issue of privacy on the net always makes me wonder if, when people started to gather together into grouped dwellings, forming villages, there was controversy over the problem that walking around in that village meant ANYONE might see your face, might be able to ask around and know your identity and background, might see your daily activities......?

If so, the answer was probably as simple as it is now- if you don't want to be seen and known, don't live in or walk around in, a village or city. Or in this case- don't use the internet. Stay out of that cyber-community.

I am not doing anything illegal, and am not really against those that are, being caught, in general.

edit on 7-6-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

How does the fact people can see you when you go out in public have any bearing what so ever on this discussion? We aren't talking about being recognized in public. We are talking about the government monitoring every day people...

If you cant see the danger in what is going on then I really feel sorry for you. If you'd like, try and consider a few of things:

-Do you think the average citizen in pre-war germany had any idea just how heinous and evil Hitler really was? Do you honestly think the german people as a whole were completely on board with everything Hitler ended up doing when he first came to power? Did you know that Hitler came to power under democratic processes and then slowly changed laws and eroded civil liberties until he made himself the fuhrer? Do you think that could never happen here?

-If such a surveillance grid is necessary to stop terrorists, why do we still have terrorists attacks? Furthermore, why did Boston go under total lockdown and turn into a dry run for marshal law in America if these surveillance measures are so effective at countering terrorism? Could it be that these measures are more effective at silencing dissenters than targeting terrorists?

-Speaking of dissent, part of living in a free country involves the right to dissent, free of persecution. While we still enjoy some of that freedom, it is being slowly taken away bit by bit. Now, instead of being able to demonstrate freely, protesters and dissenters are herded into "free speech zones" like cattle and surrounded by cages. Do you not see a problem with a society where a difference of opinion with the status quo could land you in serious hot water? Does it not seem dangerous to you that you could be detained without trial if you are suspected of being a "terrorist"? Who decides what is and isn't a terrorist? What happens if a group you belong to or an ideology you support is labeled "terrorist" in nature? Will your opinions change then?

-Do you not feel it is necessary for the population of a nation to be vigilant over it's government? Should people just give government a blank check to do as they please because the latter said it's necessary for our safety? What if the checks and balances which are in place to prevent tyranny come under threat? Would that not concern you?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I've never believed in privacy. From a very young age I've always assumed someone, somewhere knows what I'm doing and may even know what I've thrown away in the trash or on the side of the road, etc.. It's not about whether I'm doing anything wrong. I do things that are wrong all the time. It's just that I don't care. There is nothing about me I wouldn't tell my own family and friends. Nothing. And, I have done some pretty embarrassing things when I'm alone. I don't care if my government knows me better than I know myself. Privacy is an illusion, the sooner you shake it off, the better off you will be. In my opinion.

Yes, I can think of all the scenarios they could nefariously use my information for, but, I can think of ways to deal with that, so, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. As for whether the law allows it, we are the law, do we allow it? Law is not the words written with the ink of a dead plant onto the pulp of a dead tree miles away from us. It is not the officer patrolling blocks away. Law is what we say it is. We being me and the man with the knife to my throat on the pier at the empty beach in the dead of night. We say what we are free to do. I freely type on the computer, the people who run the server freely give it away to governments and corporations and they are usually compensated for it. Those people freely use it any way they wish. I freely don't go and take that information back, so, if they use it against me I will deal with that, otherwise, I can care less what they do with it, I freely put it out there for strangers in the first place.

reply to post by PhyberDragon1



Well, thanks! you have ruined masturbation for me, forever!! ; )

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

... Which brings me to my next question:

WHY aren't more people up in arms about this? You would think people would be ranting about this all over the front page of ATS?

Is it possible that the complacency and apathy we see in the average citizen over such issues is in fact a result of some of the indoctrination we've been through? Are they putting something in the water to pacify people? I just don't understand why people don't care?

I've also wondered the same thing. It's as if these scandalous situations that keep popping up are not considered a serious wrong or encroachment. However, when compared to historical examples, this type of action from the administration and governing body causes huge uproar and public distress/distrust.

This number of scandals would have never taken place around the time of Carter, and before.

The presidents from Carter and before would have never been able to produce this number of scandals. The people would have been so furious that impeachment proceedings would have taken place before anymore scandals could have taken place.

What's changed? Well, it isn't the president or the people running the show - they have always walked the razor thin line of secrecy. They simply could not get past the public opinion/outcry in order to go to the places we see being visited by today's POTUS and administration. I believe that previous administrations & presidents would act in a very similar manner, IF they could get away with it - but they couldn't get away with it, because of the public voice.

The former presidents and their admin. knew this, they knew it would take a much larger effort that would be implemented over decades, not single POTUS terms.

We've seen the work they have put in, slowly, over the past 10-15 years. The changes were patiently and methodically put in place, each of them sold to the public as tools to help protect American's civil liberties and physical wellbeing.

It seems as if they approached this as a boxing match and have worked toward wearing us all down.

I really do hate to say it, but the reason we are not seeing the public in arms and fighting mad is because the general public is throwing in the towel. The situation has gone past the point of hopelessness, many citizens know their voice does not really matter - in the voting process or any other political arena where big government is in opposition to the public's desires.

Those who are not worn down and haven't lost faith in the system are the same ones who continue to support this administration, regardless of what the evidence and accusations point toward.

'Get on-board, or get off the tracks'

Personally, I am not at all ready to throw in the towel and let them win via TKO (technical Knock-out; boxing), but it is very disappointing to see so many acting as if everything is copacetic.

Those who see the problems, and want to right the ship, must fight 2 battles.

One battle is with the government itself.

The other is the battle between our peers, our neighbors, co-workers, and even our family members. Those who see how bad things are must try to spread the truth and show the 'consumer population' how dangerous the our government is right now.