Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus


So ok you say that she was no angel(sounds like a justification for the Left to me)

Of course it does. You are fixated on this silly left/right paradigm. I know you think it matters. But there was no liberal/conservative before the dawn of western civilization. The world will go on once it (thankfully) goes away.

"You're a liberal" is the new "You're a satanist".

Spending all day reading news and following forums is rotting your brain.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Cold someone show me what is the difference between a normal wedding cake and a gay one....I'm confused, not about my sexuality, but from a gay cake point of view...

You can refuse to make a straight one (so long as it isn't for a minority, interracial, disabled, or otherwise protected heterosexual couple), but not a gay one.

Basically, you can't refuse the gay cake. It's too fabulous.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Spending all day? My friend you do not know what I do in a day. I do not golf though.

there was no liberal/conservative before the dawn of western civilization

I suppose not. But the left/right paradigm you are speaking of came around the time when Hegel put forth his theory of dialectical reasoning and Karl Marx and friedrich Engels developed dialectical materialism as used in Marxism, then it was brought to America and used and implemented by members of Skull and Bones at Yale University.

what does 'left/right' 'liberal/conservative' have to do with Discrimination, are both sides guilty of it? indeed, it's wrong no matter what ideology you follow.

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
what does 'left/right' 'liberal/conservative' have to do with Discrimination, are both sides guilty of it? indeed, it's wrong no matter what ideology you follow.

You know it was someone else who criticized me for being "left/right" so why don't you gripe at him about it. And the same guy criticized me for what he views as excessive time reading news and forums. Don't "liberals" ever get tired of judging people for any reason they can dream up?
So liberals can be as passionate as they want about something, hack people's emails, file petty lawsuits, call people names, mock people on public television, camp out in public parks for months at a time, but let a conservative voice an opinion and all heck breaks loose.

I actually do a lot of research and then take action.

In November I researched Agenda 21, and with two other people gave a presentation on it. In December we invited a speaker to come and filled the room up.
After that we decided to focus on Common Core.
I attend local city commission meetings to see what they are up to.
Who are a couple people on an Internet forum to judge my activism, especially when they are doing the same thing here? Where is the respect for Community Organizing? Gone when it applies to conservatives?

Didn't Nancy Pelosi tell young people they should pursue what they like instead of the corporate boardroom? Oh wait, that's only for people she agrees with.

I find it incredibly amazing that so many people who hated Bush will defend Obama even when he is doing almost exactly what Bush did.
I don't want to see us turn into a Totalitarian Surveillance Society, but that is where we are already, more or less. But people will accept it if it appears to favor their flavor.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
what does 'left/right' 'liberal/conservative' have to do with Discrimination, are both sides guilty of it? indeed, it's wrong no matter what ideology you follow.

You know it was someone else who criticized me for being "left/right" so why don't you gripe at him about it. And the same guy criticized me for what he views as excessive time reading news and forums. Don't "liberals" ever get tired of judging people for any reason they can dream up?
So liberals can be as passionate as they want about something, hack people's emails, file petty lawsuits, call people names, mock people on public television, camp out in public parks for months at a time, but let a conservative voice an opinion and all heck breaks loose.

I actually do a lot of research and then take action.

In November I researched Agenda 21, and with two other people gave a presentation on it. In December we invited a speaker to come and filled the room up.
After that we decided to focus on Common Core.
I attend local city commission meetings to see what they are up to.
Who are a couple people on an Internet forum to judge my activism, especially when they are doing the same thing here? Where is the respect for Community Organizing? Gone when it applies to conservatives?

Didn't Nancy Pelosi tell young people they should pursue what they like instead of the corporate boardroom? Oh wait, that's only for people she agrees with.

edit on 11-6-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

No T no shade, but that has nothing to do with this topic,

your attacks against Liberals are baseless within this topic of conversation, the word Liberal gets tossed around quite a bit usually with wrong intent and meaning behind it,

are you assuming that all Gays are Liberals? if so you met one (me) who is not a Liberal, i'm Anarchist, likewise the 'Log Cabin Republicans' among other groups

i'm attempting to comprehend your argument and how it pertains to this topic, i think i'm either confused on your argument, or not following correctly?

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Sex education has mutated from, in my day, animated films of sperms swimming toward eggs to an outright violation of children’s innocence. Nine-year-olds learn to put condoms on bananas; middle school children squirm at talks about sex change operations. By high school, free condoms are in plentiful supply.
The federal government and progressive states, such as California, are big cheerleaders for children becoming sexual junkies. The One-World loving UN has chimed in with proclamations declaring children’s “right” to masturbation. And the deluded dupes running today’s public schools follow in lockstep.

The sexual immersion in today’s public schools doesn’t just stimulate kids to experiment with the opposite sex; it cajoles them to consider a gay or bi or polyamorous lifestyle.

www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com... l-fb/

Let's be very clear here.

Firstly this source is highly opinionated and leads the reader toward homosexual discrimination by demonising it through portraying sex education as a radical free thinkers agenda.

If you believe the stance this post takes, I ask you one simple question;

How do you believe it is best for us to ensure that children are given quality and appropriate advice about sex and sexuality that is balance and fair to everyone.

Before you answer the above, consider this. I grew up gay, I knew that I was attracted to the same sex long before I knew it was called homosexual or gay. I thought everyone was like it until other boys starting showing interest in girls.

Our sex education at school was very basic and did not cover homosexuality. I did not have access to any of the information I needed to understand myself and who I am.

I am not pushing any agenda about teaching homosexuality in schools, I am simply asking, how do people like me growing up get the information and advice we need

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
You know it was someone else who criticized me for being "left/right" so why don't you gripe at him about it.

I mention it because I grew tired of you throwing it around here as if it were relevant.

And the same guy criticized me for what he views as excessive time reading news and forums.

I wonder why.....

Don't "liberals" ever get tired of judging people for any reason they can dream up?

Oh yea....thats why. Because you keep calling people a liberal. Why? Because we represent a position you don't like, and you think you are a conservative. Thing is, my political views are actually "Conservative Libertarian". I am in favor of having a system that is just short of anarchy. My views likely align closer to Darth Prime than any "liberal" out there. And it is hiliarious to me that you throw "liberal" around. It is like the only insult you know, so you use it.

So liberals can be as passionate as they want about something, hack people's emails, file petty lawsuits, call people names, mock people on public television, camp out in public parks for months at a time, but let a conservative voice an opinion and all heck breaks loose.

Just what are you talking about? Did you go off your meds or something? What has any of this got to do with any of what has been talked about?

I actually do a lot of research and then take action.

In November I researched Agenda 21, and with two other people gave a presentation on it. In December we invited a speaker to come and filled the room up.
After that we decided to focus on Common Core.
I attend local city commission meetings to see what they are up to.
Who are a couple people on an Internet forum to judge my activism, especially when they are doing the same thing here? Where is the respect for Community Organizing? Gone when it applies to conservatives?

Now that we have returned from you little break of ego stuffing, will we finally get back to talking about anything related to the last 27 pages?

Didn't Nancy Pelosi tell young people they should pursue what they like instead of the corporate boardroom? Oh wait, that's only for people she agrees with.

I find it incredibly amazing that so many people who hated Bush will defend Obama even when he is doing almost exactly what Bush did.
I don't want to see us turn into a Totalitarian Surveillance Society, but that is where we are already, more or less. But people will accept it if it appears to favor their flavor.

edit on 11-6-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

I guess not.

I suppose it isn't that unusual, what you are doing here. Wrapping up morality, religion, sexuality, and politics into some amalgamated viewpoint. But the way you stroll through all of them simultaneously, expecting the rest of us to follow what you are saying, just looks like insanity.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
So liberals can be as passionate as they want about something, hack people's emails, file petty lawsuits, call people names, mock people on public television, camp out in public parks for months at a time, but let a conservative voice an opinion and all heck breaks loose.

Here's something you DON'T know. I stand just as strongly for this baker's rights to believe as he does and to freely exercise his religion as I do for the gay couple's right to equal treatment under the law, AS LONG AS neither or them deny the rights of the other. (I would wager that others here feel the same.) When one denies the rights of the other, it's time to step in and make it right. And no matter what ANYONE says, the baker does NOT have the right to use his religious beliefs to discriminate against his customers. Not only that, I can bet you a year's salary that his religion does NOT state that he is to treat gay people differently than he does other customers. So, his action of denying the cake is not, in fact, exercising his religion. He is still free to have his beliefs about homosexuality. But there's a large difference between beliefs (thoughts) and actions.

And don't fool yourself into thinking that this group you call "liberals" has cornered the market on being passionate about their causes, hacking people's emails, filing petty lawsuits, calling people names and mocking people on television. Your "liberals = bad, conservatives = good" mindset is actually what is keeping us ALL from acting together for the freedom and equal rights of ALL. The blinders that keep you from seeing that BOTH sides have their faults AND their assets should be tossed aside, leaving you FREE to think for yourself, instead of being a minion to a master that exists ONLY to manipulate and use you.

A TRUE conservative supports the rights of all people, not just the ones they agree with.

Originally posted by esdad71
So if I own a business I am dictated by those who want to impose their views but I cannot have my own? Hmmm....does not sound like a free nation to me and you are promoting it.

Are you pretending to be a moron??

It's not "The Gays" Imposing their views on anyone.... it's THE LAW!!

As a business, you CANNOT DISCRIMINATE..... is this fact lost on you???

Everyone has been telling you for dozens of pages yet you keep asking the same STUPID, MORONIC questions.


Also you're defending the EDL in another thread??

So you're homophobic with Anti-Muslim Tendencies?? Anything else you'd like to share?

Any other groups, minorities or anything you want to tell us are wrong or evil??


Or have I got it all wrong... this is about freedoms right? Freedom of speech, freedom of expressions.... yadda yadda.

It's funny... it's always the bigots who scream about freedom...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Ne'er a truer word spoken.

I think this video is timely given your input relating to the divide and conquer strategy working against the rights of all people:

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


NIce post..thought I would make sure to mention it...

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by esdad71
So if I own a business I am dictated by those who want to impose their views but I cannot have my own? Hmmm....does not sound like a free nation to me and you are promoting it.

Are you pretending to be a moron??

It's not "The Gays" Imposing their views on anyone.... it's THE LAW!!

As a business, you CANNOT DISCRIMINATE..... is this fact lost on you???

Everyone has been telling you for dozens of pages yet you keep asking the same STUPID, MORONIC questions.


Also you're defending the EDL in another thread??

So you're homophobic with Anti-Muslim Tendencies?? Anything else you'd like to share?

Any other groups, minorities or anything you want to tell us are wrong or evil??


Or have I got it all wrong... this is about freedoms right? Freedom of speech, freedom of expressions.... yadda yadda.

It's funny... it's always the bigots who scream about freedom...

and again, the insults come out... A moron..not quite but it easy to say that when someone does not agree with you view. You realize that you are discriminating, right, based on thinking you know me in this thread and others like the EDL posts? I will refrain from unkind words although it so hard too but it is not right.

Actually, it was LGBT that lobbied to have the original law, CODA, changed to include this clause So, it was 'the gay community' who proposed this to be voted upon. It was not a guy in a wheelchair needing a ramp.

You are basing the fact a business cannot discriminate based on gender or sexuality as a state law, not federal. It is not the same in all states either so get a grip. I will ask the question 40 billion times and no one, you or otherwise, can stop me but you want too. You want to silence those that would speak up and not let anyone have their rights infringed , gay, black or handicapped. You do not know me so stop making assumptions.

Glad I have another follower since you looked up the EDL thread. Has no business here but now, not only are your discriminating against me based on my posts you are being prejudiced by calling me..what was that...

A homophobe with Anti-Muslim Tendencies

You sir are the definition of a bigot with what you have written by being discriminatory and prejudice. You don't see it because people who feel like you generally do not. They are usually very selfish and just jump on a bandwagon. Go kill some zombies will you?

This is about freedom of speech, and religion, and choice. Something that the couple AND the baker are not given.

I am the most "Liberal Conservative" you would ever meet as my friends say. if you sat down and drew a beer with me you might know that but you have already make up your mind about me. I would defend a gay couple if they were harassed at a bar or in public (and I have) as certainly as I would anyone else. It does not matter who you are to me but how all are treated, not just one group but as a collective. A nation. That is the major disconnect here that many of you do not see in my posts. Why is anyone more special than someone else. We all have our own struggles. Does a gay kid in high school have it tougher than a fat nerd? No, but there is no protection or special group for the fat kid is there?

I did not say they should not get a cake...I said the baker should have a choice which is his birth right in America but it has been trampled by special interest groups. If you do not think so, that is ok, no skin off my back, but if it came down to it, no matter who you are, if you needed help from me, even you, I would give you the shirt off my back. Even if you are a bigot....

reply to post by esdad71


The baker has all the choice in the world. The business, however, does not. The business has no rights. Unless it is incorporated, in which case it has some level of rights.

So you are correct: if the baker feels that strongly against it he should not have to make it. But someone in the business needs to, or the business is in violation of the law.

Since the baker is the business owner, it is his liability to handle. It is the price of doing business. Any idea how much I spend every 3 months for just liability insurance in my business? As a business "owner" (i manage the financial operations of a small corp) I have a duty and obligation to attend to these liabilities.

If someone in my operation refused service to a gay person? Well, my policies state that they would be given a final written warning for insubordination, unless they were rude to the customer (which would likely be a termination). Our business would still provide service. That is what we do: provide service. In todays economy, there aren't that many dollars that a smart business owner would turn away.

Then again, a smart business owner wouldn't violate his state law just so he could continue homophobic practices.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Indeed, this is what many have been attempting to say throughout the topic, no one is saying the bakers right to religion should be denied, nor his 'right' to think/believe against or for Homosexuality, but when it crosses into discrimination is when it becomes wrong,

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by esdad71

 

The baker has all the choice in the world. The business, however, does not. The business has no rights. Unless it is incorporated, in which case it has some level of rights.

So you are correct: if the baker feels that strongly against it he should not have to make it. But someone in the business needs to, or the business is in violation of the law.

Since the baker is the business owner, it is his liability to handle. It is the price of doing business. Any idea how much I spend every 3 months for just liability insurance in my business? As a business "owner" (i manage the financial operations of a small corp) I have a duty and obligation to attend to these liabilities.

If someone in my operation refused service to a gay person? Well, my policies state that they would be given a final written warning for insubordination, unless they were rude to the customer (which would likely be a termination). Our business would still provide service. That is what we do: provide service. In todays economy, there aren't that many dollars that a smart business owner would turn away.

Then again, a smart business owner wouldn't violate his state law just so he could continue homophobic practices.

Yes, I do have an idea and it is sickening. I am a business consultant which deals in HR/Payroll/Benefits/Taxes as well as all aspects of the law and liability in business so yes, it was a poor business choice. A smart business owner would have made it, and then, if he felt so strongly, would file his own complaint as the ACLU even stated based on religious beliefs he has a case if taken to the Federal level.

I do not agree with the way it was handled, nor of the treatment of the couple, but past those points, there is a lot here that could have greater impact and that was my underlying message all along. It was not 'don't make gay cakes". It was do not choose one group of people over the other in any decision. I also think it is unfair to say homophobic practices as it is too broad seeing he employs gays and havs made cakes for thme in the past, just not for marriage. That is the sticker with me that it was just poor choice. Karma will make sure he has to deal with it in some way.

Both parties could have been more adult about it in the end.

Originally posted by esdad71

Both parties could have been more adult about it in the end.

to that we can both agree.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by esdad71

Both parties could have been more adult about it in the end.

to that we can both agree.

Indeed, as i have stated, creating a Law suit doesn't take away the feeling of discrimination and dehumanization, the Legal system is a farce anyway,

i get maybe 'why' they did, to bring awareness to discrimination we still face, or maybe they just wanted money, i don't know them personally,

the Baker knew the laws and broke them with conscious, that and discriminatory actions are on him,

reply to post by Darth_Prime


Yea. But in todays society we are seeing full blown revolution as it relates to sexuality. When I was a young man (in my teens), being gay was taboo and kept secret. Now, in our local west Texas high school, we see openly gay youths free from the shackles of backwards society. The rules are still the same: no "PDA". As it should be for everyone (i hate seeing couples make out in public).

Tolerance is most definitely waxing. The couple certainly had other more appropriate options.

Or, stated otherwise, i typically don't end up in places I am unwanted unless I am looking for a fight. And there is no moral high ground on picking a fight.

Regardless....yes, they were within their rights. But it is like the right to free speech....it also carries a right to be silent. Often times the former is exercised when the latter should be used instead.

ETA: I get the feeling that it was an action you likely would not have chosen. Which should speak volumes, if true.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by grey580

 

The analogy here is that you may be in the KKK and hate minorities that doesn't give you the right to discriminate against minorities.

What gives the right to minorities to dictate sexual mores and values to the majority? I do not care for the KKK if that is what you are referring to. But leave it to a Progressive to suggest that I must accept any and all sexual mores on the basis that KKK hates minorities. The problem here is that Progressives have not made any distinction between race and sexual mores. Of course they do this for a purpose and that is why they argue that there is no "choice" involved in homosexual mores. It is much easier to convince society of their value system that way.

You don't get what America is about do you. It's about the majority not having the opportunity to oppress minorities. Everyone is equal under the eyes of the law. The same law that protects gays from being discriminated against. Protect minorities and religious groups from discrimination.

And for the record I'm a moderate. In the middle.

What I see from both sides is just a bunch of hate. No compromise. No middle ground. It's either your way or the high way. There's 300 million people of every stripe in this country. Just because you say something is so doesn't make it right. And you don't get that. That's a problem. In this country everyone is equal. Freedom of or from Religion just isn't for you. It's for everyone.