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Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake
page: 26share:
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by grey580
Being nice doesn't necessarily mean being loving. Progressives are demanding everyone be nice to them no matter what wares they hawk. And yes we can do that, but what kind of society does that really create? I said that likely I would just bake the cake, but it doesn't mean I have to agree. What the Progressives are trying to do is say that to be tolerant it means that we must enforce things through government. In the meantime, they are using force through educational indoctrination, through the nationalization of the education sector. Do you mean to tell me that I must like everything Progressives do because they say so? That brings me to the liberal fascism point.
So because you disapprove of the way other people have sex, you should then be allowed to discriminate against them?
Do you really care how they are having sex? What is happening in their crotch? What effect does it have on you? If being gay were not seen as a social taboo....what hell would be unleashed on humanity?
REPLY TO bigfatfurrytexan
Contradiction again. No one has the right to tell another group what they can do, huh? So why can a group such as LGBT tell this man who he can sell cakes too?
The US has not valued the rights of the individual since 1913. You need to read some books on history my friend. We are not even in the top 20 nations for expressed freedoms. What we have is a minority dictating the majority. You can try to paint it any way you want but you sound like the MSM and many of us in this thread are not swallowing it.
This will, and should, get shot down at a Federal level, based on current law. You can theorize and wish all you want but when did gays become a class? There are black gays, white gays, handicapped gays....it is a sexuality not a class of person. This would then mean anyone straight had no rights if someone gay was involved. You are voted for Barry, didn't you?
How is forcing a business to sell something the Amrerican way? You are describing Communism here.
And Progressive, it does not mean moving forward as the common definition applies, it is an ideology which again tells us you have no idea what you are talking about. Look up Woodrow Wilson or maybe Teddy Roosevelt and you will learn what Progressives are. They are the most racist of them all but they use people such as yourself and special interest groups to sway law and opinion while the common everyday Jack or Jill is screwed.
This is just another step and nail in the coffin. Make gays think they will get ahead by following the left agenda when it will take away more rights in the end. Deal with the devil but you cannot see it. That is why America is failing. The last 2 elections were won by the last 'class' of people that were needed to be fooled. Black America. They voted for someone they thought was like them and what happened, Everyone's taxes went up, civil liberties are in the toilet and everyday another right in our country is lost due to decisions that are not for the majority, but the minority with far reaching impact.
Contradiction again. No one has the right to tell another group what they can do, huh? So why can a group such as LGBT tell this man who he can sell cakes too?
The US has not valued the rights of the individual since 1913. You need to read some books on history my friend. We are not even in the top 20 nations for expressed freedoms. What we have is a minority dictating the majority. You can try to paint it any way you want but you sound like the MSM and many of us in this thread are not swallowing it.
This will, and should, get shot down at a Federal level, based on current law. You can theorize and wish all you want but when did gays become a class? There are black gays, white gays, handicapped gays....it is a sexuality not a class of person. This would then mean anyone straight had no rights if someone gay was involved. You are voted for Barry, didn't you?
How is forcing a business to sell something the Amrerican way? You are describing Communism here.
And Progressive, it does not mean moving forward as the common definition applies, it is an ideology which again tells us you have no idea what you are talking about. Look up Woodrow Wilson or maybe Teddy Roosevelt and you will learn what Progressives are. They are the most racist of them all but they use people such as yourself and special interest groups to sway law and opinion while the common everyday Jack or Jill is screwed.
This is just another step and nail in the coffin. Make gays think they will get ahead by following the left agenda when it will take away more rights in the end. Deal with the devil but you cannot see it. That is why America is failing. The last 2 elections were won by the last 'class' of people that were needed to be fooled. Black America. They voted for someone they thought was like them and what happened, Everyone's taxes went up, civil liberties are in the toilet and everyday another right in our country is lost due to decisions that are not for the majority, but the minority with far reaching impact.
edit on 10-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)
jesus christ, did you not read what I wrote?
Originally posted by esdad71
REPLY TO bigfatfurrytexan
Contradiction again. No one has the right to tell another group what they can do, huh? So why can a group such as LGBT tell this man who he can sell cakes too?
That man doesn't have to sell anything to them. The business does. The business is not a person, and is not afforded rights. The man, if he owns the shop, can have an employee do it. Or quit selling cakes altogether.
If ever, and no kidding.
The US has not valued the rights of the individual since 1913.
[quote[We are not even in the top 20 nations for expressed freedoms. No kidding. So why ride this handbasket further into hell?
You need to read some books on history my friend.
That is called "civil liberty", and we most certainly do not have that. Although we should Perhaps YOU should read some history, and start by learning what the "mob rule fallacy" is.
What we have is a minority dictating the majority.
What the hell does that even mean? i see it thrown around here on ATS all the time. It is the ad hominem du jour. This must mean you have been talked into a circle and have nothing with any meaning left to say.
You can try to paint it any way you want but you sound like the MSM and many of us in this thread are not swallowing it.
A protected class? They haven't, federally. In Colorado it happened awhile back, and it makes your entire 20 pages of babble meaningless.
This will, and should, get shot down at a Federal level, based on current law. You can theorize and wish all you want but when did gays become a class?
Another patent, cut/paste insult. To do you one better, I am not going to even tell you who i voted for. Let you keep guessing for my own entertainment.
There are black gays, white gays, handicapped gays....it is a sexuality not a class of person. This would then mean anyone straight had no rights if someone gay was involved. You are voted for Barry, didn't you?
How is forcing a business to sell something the Amrerican way? You are describing Communism here.
You keep using the word Communism. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Kind of hard to be used by anyone when I am fiercely opinionated. But if you haven't picked that up by now, Lord help you.
And Progressive, it does not mean moving forward as the common definition applies, it is an ideology which again tells us you have no idea what you are talking about. Look up Woodrow Wilson or maybe Teddy Roosevelt and you will learn what Progressives are. They are the most racist of them all but they use people such as yourself and special interest groups to sway law and opinion while the common everyday Jack or Jill is screwed.
Cuckoo!!!!
This is just another step and nail in the coffin. Make gays think they will get ahead by following the left agenda when it will take away more rights in the end. Deal with the devil but you cannot see it. That is why America is failing. The last 2 elections were won by the last 'class' of people that were needed to be fooled. Black America. They voted for someone they thought was like them and what happened, Everyone's taxes went up, civil liberties are in the toilet and everyday another right in our country is lost due to decisions that are not for the majority, but the minority with far reaching impact.
The argument goes around in circles and evades the point of Discrimination, love the law or detest it it was discrimination, regardless if it is a law
or not it's discrimination, the thought process behind the denial of the cake was a discriminatory act,
we can agree on that?
we can agree on that?
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
No, honestly I don't give a cr^%$ what do they behind closed doors(as long as it doesn't involve children). But they have no business indoctrinating children in school. You clearly did not understand my post on the National Sexuality Education Standards and how the Progressives are using this to indoctrinate the children, not just about sexual mores but about many other things including socialism, Marxism, redistribution of wealth, anti-Americanism, and much more. You obviously do not understand the difference between real tolerance and forcing your mores on others. For you and others, it means demanding your way exclusively then giving death threats and jail sentences to those who disagree. And you cannot seem to see that this is nothing but the social face of Totalitarianism.
THIS is indoctrination:
www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com...
And the picture books used for 7 year olds is pretty explicit.
So I'm not buying that there's a legitimate complaint about wedding cakes when these people have an agenda to influence children and force a lifestyle.
No, honestly I don't give a cr^%$ what do they behind closed doors(as long as it doesn't involve children). But they have no business indoctrinating children in school. You clearly did not understand my post on the National Sexuality Education Standards and how the Progressives are using this to indoctrinate the children, not just about sexual mores but about many other things including socialism, Marxism, redistribution of wealth, anti-Americanism, and much more. You obviously do not understand the difference between real tolerance and forcing your mores on others. For you and others, it means demanding your way exclusively then giving death threats and jail sentences to those who disagree. And you cannot seem to see that this is nothing but the social face of Totalitarianism.
THIS is indoctrination:
By the time they leave elementary school, children should be able to “define sexual orientation,” and by the eighth grade be able to “define emergency contraception and its use,” according to a report containing controversial new recommendations for sex education in U.S. public schools.
Starting in the third grade, and upon completion of the fifth – when most children are 10 years old – students should be able to “[d]efine sexual orientation as the romantic attraction of an individual to someone of the same gender or a different gender” and “dentify parents or other trusted adults of whom students can ask questions about sexual orientation.”
By completion of the eighth grade, the report says, students should be able to “[d]ifferentiate between gender identity, gender expression and sexual orientation,” “[e]xplain the range of gender roles,” and “[d]efine emergency contraception and its use.”
www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com...
And the picture books used for 7 year olds is pretty explicit.
So I'm not buying that there's a legitimate complaint about wedding cakes when these people have an agenda to influence children and force a lifestyle.
edit on 10-6-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
More on the indoctrination of our children and the reason for it, so you really get the point
www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com... l-fb/
More on the indoctrination of our children and the reason for it, so you really get the point
The debasement of children’s minds through sex education was concocted about a hundred years ago by Germany’s Frankfurt School. The socialists launched a cultural revolution to corrupt the West so badly that it would “stink,” in their words. Some of their methods would be destroying the family, stripping parents of power, and forcing sex education into the schools.
Sex education has mutated from, in my day, animated films of sperms swimming toward eggs to an outright violation of children’s innocence. Nine-year-olds learn to put condoms on bananas; middle school children squirm at talks about sex change operations. By high school, free condoms are in plentiful supply.
The federal government and progressive states, such as California, are big cheerleaders for children becoming sexual junkies. The One-World loving UN has chimed in with proclamations declaring children’s “right” to masturbation. And the deluded dupes running today’s public schools follow in lockstep.
The sexual immersion in today’s public schools doesn’t just stimulate kids to experiment with the opposite sex; it cajoles them to consider a gay or bi or polyamorous lifestyle.
www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com... l-fb/
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
There is no connection between two individuals wanting a cake to celebrate, and your children in school. I am a proponent of the concept of our schools intentionally dumbing down the populace. Charlotte Iserbyte has a lot to say on the subject.
But....you are taking one thing, and relating it to something that is wholly unrelated. I am not sure if it is paranoia, or just poor logic. But the "its for the children" fallacy doesn't do much to lend credibility to your position.
"I don't have a problem with gay people having sex, as long as it doesn't involve children". What the hell is that all about? Why would you even say that? Are you afraid that every gay person out there is just waiting to get their hooks in little Timmy? Try to proclaim your lack of prejudice. But the other side of your mouth seems to speak for itself.
There is no connection between two individuals wanting a cake to celebrate, and your children in school. I am a proponent of the concept of our schools intentionally dumbing down the populace. Charlotte Iserbyte has a lot to say on the subject.
But....you are taking one thing, and relating it to something that is wholly unrelated. I am not sure if it is paranoia, or just poor logic. But the "its for the children" fallacy doesn't do much to lend credibility to your position.
"I don't have a problem with gay people having sex, as long as it doesn't involve children". What the hell is that all about? Why would you even say that? Are you afraid that every gay person out there is just waiting to get their hooks in little Timmy? Try to proclaim your lack of prejudice. But the other side of your mouth seems to speak for itself.
Originally posted by Darth_Prime
The argument goes around in circles and evades the point of Discrimination, love the law or detest it it was discrimination, regardless if it is a law or not it's discrimination, the thought process behind the denial of the cake was a discriminatory act,
we can agree on that?
Hell no! Its for the children!!!
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
Yes, I'm afraid there IS a connection. Both are part of the same effort to force people to accept a sexual lifestyle and to use genuine civil rights (Rosa Parks and civil rights of blacks) in their attempt to force people to accept alternative and risky behavior, all in the name of telling us it's for our own good. That is classic Totalitarianism. Mussolini coined that word in case you didn't know.
How dare people make death threats and call that justice.
www.renewamerica.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
Yes, I'm afraid there IS a connection. Both are part of the same effort to force people to accept a sexual lifestyle and to use genuine civil rights (Rosa Parks and civil rights of blacks) in their attempt to force people to accept alternative and risky behavior, all in the name of telling us it's for our own good. That is classic Totalitarianism. Mussolini coined that word in case you didn't know.
How dare people make death threats and call that justice.
Propaganda and Thought Control
Socarides drew a lot of his information about the program which involves "jamming" from the book After the Ball: How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 1990's (1990) by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen. This book is a blueprint for gay activists for applying brainwashing techniques developed by the totalitarian regime of Communist China. These techniques were catalogued in Robert Jay Lifton's seminal work, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of Brainwashing in China (1989).
www.renewamerica.com...
Lifton's research for the book began in 1953 with a series of interviews with American servicemen who had been held captive during the Korean War. In addition to interviews with 25 Americans, Lifton also interviewed 15 Chinese who had fled their homeland after having been subjected to indoctrination in Chinese universities. From these interviews, which in some cases occurred regularly for over a year, Lifton identified the tactics used by Chinese communists to cause drastic shifts in one's opinions and personality and "brainwash" American soldiers into making demonstrably false assertions.
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 10-6-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason
given)
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
Yes, I'm afraid there IS a connection. Both are part of the same effort to force people to accept a sexual lifestyle and to use genuine civil rights (Rosa Parks and civil rights of blacks) in their attempt to force people to accept alternative and risky behavior, all in the name of telling us it's for our own good. That is classic Totalitarianism. Mussolini coined that word in case you didn't know.
How dare people make death threats and call that justice.
but as i reiterate in everyone of my post, we are human not an 'Alternative Human' or a 'sub-human' or a 'defect'
force people to accept alternative and risky behavior? meaning 'homosexual Sex', it seems homosexual debates and arguments always come down to 'Sex' and how we are 'unnatural' and 'Deviant' because of it,
than we get grouped into 'Beastiality' and 'Pedophiles' because they share such common connections it seems,
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
Yes, I'm afraid there IS a connection. Both are part of the same effort to force people to accept a sexual lifestyle and to use genuine civil rights (Rosa Parks and civil rights of blacks) in their attempt to force people to accept alternative and risky behavior, all in the name of telling us it's for our own good. That is classic Totalitarianism. Mussolini coined that word in case you didn't know.
How dare people make death threats and call that justice.
People aligned with every cause under the sun make death threats. There is no shortage of nutjobs in this world, and they end up permeating every aspect of society.
But all that aside, read what you are saying. You just said in your prior post you don't care what peoples sexuality is. Then in this post you bristle at being "forced" to accept their lifestyle. Either you care or you don't....but if you aren't being honest then what are we doing here? Your answers seem to be changing with your needs at that moment.
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Originally posted by Darth_Prime
The argument goes around in circles and evades the point of Discrimination, love the law or detest it it was discrimination, regardless if it is a law or not it's discrimination, the thought process behind the denial of the cake was a discriminatory act,
we can agree on that?
Hell no! Its for the children!!!
indeed, as much as people seem to avoid admitting, we Gays have so much power, we can corrupt the world and its children, corrupt marriage, corrupt religion,
www.aclu.org...
Colorado
Colorado state law bars discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity in employment, housing and public accommodations.
www.law.cornell.edu...
(7) Public accommodation
(E) a bakery, grocery store, clothing store, hardware store, shopping center, or other sales or rental establishment;
en.wikipedia.org...
reply to post by Darth_Prime
Folks who are so adamantly anti-gay, in my estimation, suffer from the "yuck" factor. They don't like it for not other reason than the thought disturbs them. We could spend days discussing the possible why's behind it, I suppose. But it all boils down to the yuck factor.
At least, that was the opinion of a psychologist I read in a magazine eons ago.
I don't know what the real reason is Horus has. But given the blatant contradictions, I can only surmise that they ahve yet to admit it publicly for us.
Folks who are so adamantly anti-gay, in my estimation, suffer from the "yuck" factor. They don't like it for not other reason than the thought disturbs them. We could spend days discussing the possible why's behind it, I suppose. But it all boils down to the yuck factor.
At least, that was the opinion of a psychologist I read in a magazine eons ago.
I don't know what the real reason is Horus has. But given the blatant contradictions, I can only surmise that they ahve yet to admit it publicly for us.
reply to post by Darth_Prime
Well, I am obviously subjugated by the mind controlling commie progressive fascists. As I have accepted homosexuality as a lifestyle that should exist. The ramifications of this? I have continued not giving a damn what other people do in their bedroom.
I mean, what is there to accept? As if kids would see homosexuality as wrong were it not for bigoted parents indoctrinating them to being with.
Well, I am obviously subjugated by the mind controlling commie progressive fascists. As I have accepted homosexuality as a lifestyle that should exist. The ramifications of this? I have continued not giving a damn what other people do in their bedroom.
I mean, what is there to accept? As if kids would see homosexuality as wrong were it not for bigoted parents indoctrinating them to being with.
reply to post by Darth_Prime
For the record, bestiality is part of the Progressive trend in sexuality education. I've seen it listed in books for grade schoolers.
Would you care to explain why Progressives insist on adding that to federally enforced education programs?
For the record, bestiality is part of the Progressive trend in sexuality education. I've seen it listed in books for grade schoolers.
Would you care to explain why Progressives insist on adding that to federally enforced education programs?
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
Social Justice is being is being used as a method for indoctrination and brainwashing. It's so very simple. I know you disagree and so we come to an impasse.
People complain about the Westboro Church and how obnoxious their methods are, and yet activists defend the use of equally obnoxious methods of intimidation, picketing, boycotting, death threats, and other forms of harassment.
Ok good for you, don't you feel so proud.
Social Justice is being is being used as a method for indoctrination and brainwashing. It's so very simple. I know you disagree and so we come to an impasse.
People complain about the Westboro Church and how obnoxious their methods are, and yet activists defend the use of equally obnoxious methods of intimidation, picketing, boycotting, death threats, and other forms of harassment.
Ok good for you, don't you feel so proud.
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
Obviously you see nothing wrong with institutionalizing indoctrination and brainwashing so long as it fits your particular pet needs. This is exactly what I have talked about on these forums and why I say that Totalitarianism is preferred by those who think they have a right to tell everyone else what to do. You champion having the almighty State dictate these things because you personally don't like having parents teach their own children.
I see exactly where you are coming from. As long as it's your pet thing eh.....
I mean, what is there to accept? As if kids would see homosexuality as wrong were it not for bigoted parents indoctrinating them to being with.
Obviously you see nothing wrong with institutionalizing indoctrination and brainwashing so long as it fits your particular pet needs. This is exactly what I have talked about on these forums and why I say that Totalitarianism is preferred by those who think they have a right to tell everyone else what to do. You champion having the almighty State dictate these things because you personally don't like having parents teach their own children.
I see exactly where you are coming from. As long as it's your pet thing eh.....
edit on 10-6-2013 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason
given)
Let me see if I understand this:
1. The gay couple has the right to refuse doing business with the bakery owner. For any reason whatsoever.
2. The bakery owner does not have the right to refuse business from the gay couple because they are gay.
Why is it that consumers have the right to refuse to do business under any circumstance, whereas producers can only refuse business in certain cases, and even then, can become subject to scrutiny and legal action?
1. The gay couple has the right to refuse doing business with the bakery owner. For any reason whatsoever.
2. The bakery owner does not have the right to refuse business from the gay couple because they are gay.
Why is it that consumers have the right to refuse to do business under any circumstance, whereas producers can only refuse business in certain cases, and even then, can become subject to scrutiny and legal action?
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
What does that have to do with Homosexuals? or the original topic of conversation?
i'm not privy to why they would instruct children on Beastiality, maybe because it can found on the internet and children are far more technology savvy?
i have never said i was for the Schools teaching anything, School is an excuse for parents not having to instruct their children, likewise it teaches them to be sheep and follow along in line, if you get an A you get rewarded with future of collage and money, if you get a C you are below average and have no future,
but again, what does this have to do with the original topic of conversation?
What does that have to do with Homosexuals? or the original topic of conversation?
i'm not privy to why they would instruct children on Beastiality, maybe because it can found on the internet and children are far more technology savvy?
i have never said i was for the Schools teaching anything, School is an excuse for parents not having to instruct their children, likewise it teaches them to be sheep and follow along in line, if you get an A you get rewarded with future of collage and money, if you get a C you are below average and have no future,
but again, what does this have to do with the original topic of conversation?
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Obviously death threats....well, they are what they are. Threats. Meant to intimidate. Like I said, there are nuts in all groups. However, I could imagine the rage I would feel if my monogomous partner of 20 years died and I was denied the same "common law" rights as any other hetero human. "Common law" is another word for "natural law". I would feel rather dehumanized.
Obviously death threats....well, they are what they are. Threats. Meant to intimidate. Like I said, there are nuts in all groups. However, I could imagine the rage I would feel if my monogomous partner of 20 years died and I was denied the same "common law" rights as any other hetero human. "Common law" is another word for "natural law". I would feel rather dehumanized.
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