Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about personal beliefs regarding gay marriage. Personally I don't care who you want to spend your life with, it's your life and your choice so if you wanna marry, have sex, or spend your life in a committed relationship with a badger go for it but don't expect me to agree with it. I will neither support or condone it as it's your personal decision.

DENVER – A gay couple is pursuing a discrimination complaint against a Colorado bakery, saying the business refused them a wedding cake to honor their Massachusetts ceremony, and alleging that the owners have a history of turning away same-sex couples.

The Colorado Attorney General's office filed a formal complaint last week after the ACLU initiated the process last year on behalf of David Mullins and Charlie Craig. The case is scheduled for a hearing in September before Colorado's Civil Rights Commission.

LINK

The way I feel about this is that if the owner of this bakery didn't want to make a cake for the couple then they could have and should have simply found another bakery. That would have been the end of it, there is no mention in this story of the owners of the bakery being rude or offensive to the couple and as I see it there was really no damages suffered by the couple.

I can understand that some would see this as discrimination towards the couple and I also understand that this could be a very slippery slope. However my point in making a thread about this is to bring forth the question of when does one persons rights override another persons rights.

A quote from the article that I find to actually present a double standard follows:

"Religious freedom is a fundamental right in America and it's something that we champion at the ACLU," said Mark Silverstein, the legal director of the group in Colorado, which filed the complaint on behalf of the couple. "We are all entitled to our religious beliefs and we fight for that. But someone's personal religious beliefs don't justify breaking the law by discriminating against others in the public sphere."

IMO a person that is engaged in private commerce has the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason they want. If it is a private enterprise then why should they be forced to do something that is against their will, beliefs, moral or religious ideals as long as they decline service in a respectable and decent manner.

The ACLU spokesman in the article even states that religious freedom is a fundamental right that they champion and stand up for everyday. Yet apparently that religious right is not as fundamental as the right that someone has to force you to overlook your religious beliefs and go against those beliefs.

This is why I bring this article to the attention of the ATS community. If we have fundamental right to our religious beliefs then why and how can someone force you to set aside your right when you have exercised it in a respectable manner? If this is the case then that right is no longer an actual right but is instead a privilege that can only be exercised when a certain party deems it to be okay.

The fact is that we need to determine in this country when to draw the line. When does one persons right to believe a certain way override another persons right to feel their certain way? As I already said if the owners of the bakery would have been rude or made disparaging remarks then I could see justification for a discrimination suit, however to just simply refuse service shouldn't be.

In all reality I think that the biggest culprit in this story is actually the blood sucking lawyers that will litigate anything just to make a dollar, but that's just my opinion and doesn't matter. I'm sure I may catch a lot of flak over this thread but that's okay, you don't have to worry about me calling the ACLU and suing those who do for discriminating against me based on my opinion.

I guess a lot of it boils down to the fact that Americans have become weak minded and sue happy. As I said, I'm not trying to debate the issues of homosexuality but rather the rights of a private business owner.

Oh now is: Whether you accept us or we sue you?

Wth is going on with our society...

I am of two minds on this sort of thing.

As a business owner you do have the right to do or not do business with someone.

However the question here is does the business owner have the right to discriminate against someone because of the way they are.

And let's look past the argument of whether or not being gay is a choice or you are born gay.

Does the same business owner have the right to discriminate against someone if they are black, hispanic, chinese, muslim or hindu? If the answer is no why does he get a pass on discriminating on gay people?

As far as I'm concerned if his money is green I'll take it. That should be all business owners philosophies.

Originally posted by grey580
As a business owner you do have the right to do or not do business with someone.

However the question here is does the business owner have the right to discriminate against someone because of the way they are.

Does the same business owner have the right to discriminate against someone if they are black, hispanic, chinese, muslim or hindu? If the answer is no why does he get a pass on discriminating on gay people?

As far as I'm concerned if his money is green I'll take it. That should be all business owners philosophies.

I think the owner doesn't believe in same sex marriage. Nothing to do with race or ethnicity IMO He has all the right to refuse to sell a 'wedding cake'. Definition of weddings vary according to different religions but none of them have anything mentioned about 'same sex marriage'. Personally I couldn't care less if I were the bakery owner as to me its about business transactions even though I am not in favor of same sex marriage.

Wasn't this a story last year or year before?i'm sure if you search there was a story about a CO bakery refusing to make a cake for a gay couple.

Is this the same bakery or another?

Originally posted by stargatetravels
Wasn't this a story last year or year before?i'm sure if you search there was a story about a CO bakery refusing to make a cake for a gay couple.

Is this the same bakery or another?

I think so

ATS_THREAD

I believe this is from last year where I had opened a thread on this news but now they've filed the lawsuit after consulting the leaches/vultures..err lawyers

ATS_THREAD

Thought crime will not be tolerated. All must be in lock-step harmony, marching towards the Progressive World of Tomorrow!

You will comply, you will submit. This is for your own good.

Hmm... OP says you can marry a badger for all he cares. That's a troll line if I've ever heard one. Religion has been contorted to condone all kinds of discrimination. A restaurant cannot exclude patrons of different ethnicities. I don't really see a difference here.

Okay....WTH? I am really getting annoyed with the ATS search engine.

This is 3 times this week that Ive used it to search a story and came up with nothing just to find out that it's been posted. Anyone have any suggestions?

Originally posted by fomalhaut
Hmm... OP says you can marry a badger for all he cares. That's a troll line if I've ever heard one. Religion has been contorted to condone all kinds of discrimination. A restaurant cannot exclude patrons of different ethnicities. I don't really see a difference here.

Hmmm.....did it ever occur to you that I don't subscribe to any of the religions because much like government they are all about control?

Originally posted by Nucleardiver
Okay....WTH? I am really getting annoyed with the ATS search engine.

This is 3 times this week that Ive used it to search a story and came up with nothing just to find out that it's been posted. Anyone have any suggestions?

thats fine. It happens to me as well when I use ATS search engine. Besides your thread is an UPDATE to the news piece from last year so I guess it qualifies for a new thread?

I started reading this thread and thought that if the bakery doesn't want to sell them a cake, then it's their (the bakeries loss) But if they'd refused to do business with someone because they were white or black etc, it would be illegal. So, on balance, sue 'em.

To me it's all about fellow decency and respect for any/all human beings. You can't discuss incidents like these without discussing how feelings toward another human impacts ones actions. Obviously this business owner has a disdain for, or at the very least, a disagreement with, the homosexual lifestyle, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out what a cake transaction has to do with someones sexual orientation.

Would people's views be any different if it were a KKK member owned backery and they refused to sell a wedding cake to an inter racial couple?

Remember that the KKK was founded as a Christian group.

I believe at least a few would......

Originally posted by redtic
I can't figure out what a cake transaction has to do with someones sexual orientation.

It was a 'wedding cake' not just a regular cake. So perhaps the owner is against 'gay marriage'

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by redtic
I can't figure out what a cake transaction has to do with someones sexual orientation.

It was a 'wedding cake' not just a regular cake. So perhaps the owner is against 'gay marriage'

And what if he were anti-semetic? Could he refuse a barmitzfa (sp?) cake?

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by redtic
I can't figure out what a cake transaction has to do with someones sexual orientation.

It was a 'wedding cake' not just a regular cake. So perhaps the owner is against 'gay marriage'

And what if he were anti-semetic? Could he refuse a barmitzfa (sp?) cake?

Ofcourse he has the right to refuse if he were anti-semetic.

Originally posted by HandyDandy
Would people's views be any different if it were a KKK member owned backery and they refused to sell a wedding cake to an inter racial couple?

Remember that the KKK was founded as a Christian group.

I believe at least a few would......

Good point, but even better yet what if it was a KKK member that had wanted to buy a cake for some KKK celebration? If he were refused service by the owner would the ACLU be taking up his cause and would he be justified in his litigation?

This is exactly the point that I was attempting to make. Since we all have the right to believe as we choose how do we determine who's right carries more weight?