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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
While discrimination is wrong, the question is why target one person or business?
Does the baker, if he has employees, has he denied any employment to anyone who is gay? If a gay person were to walk in and ask for a cake, not a wedding cake, does he refuse them service?
In 2012, Phillips told local CBS affilate KCNC-TV that he has no problem with lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT) customers or staff members, but nonetheless does not support gay marriage, when he refused to bake a cake for Dave Mullins and Charlie Craig.
Arguing that he who rather "close down the bakery" than "compromise our beliefs," Phillips said at the time, "If gays come in and want to order birthday cakes or any cakes for any occasion, graduations, or whatever, I have no prejudice against that whatsoever. It's just the wedding cake -- not the people, not their lifestyle."
If he has hired and has on staff gay people, and has sold cakes and goods to gay people, then it is simply a matter of the fact that he does not believe in gay marriage and it is not a case of discrimination, thus the lawsuits are ultimately fradulent, and what is going on is an attempt to ruin his name and reputation.
On the flip side, the question is, if the couple knows that this man is not going to or be willing to make them a wedding cake, due to his belief, why then bring a lawsuit against him?
Did he make any disparaging remarks about such, did he indicate that he does not like gay people, did he at any point and time indicate that he was disgusted by them?
Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by esdad71
In what reality does who you are having sex with determine the bakery you can use? Do you not see the sheer insanity of this?
I would say that if it is a Christian baker who is up in arms over having to bake cakes for gay people...they should ask themselves what the namesake of their religion would do. You know, Jesus....the guy who had among his best friends a prostitute.
“We were all very upset, but I was angry and I felt dehumanized and mortified,” Mullins said in an interview with the Associated Press.
Originally posted by esdad71
a baker for following his right to religious freedom.
As you point out, he hires and sells to gays. His normal business practice has not changed over time. It is, as you indicate, not discriminatory.
Those questions have been answered. He has not denied employment to gay people and he has made cakes for gay people, just not wedding cakes.
But here is your error, he does not provide same-sex wedding cakes to other married couples, he rejects all such requests equally. They may or may not ask for gay wedding cakes, but that's not the point. He would treat all requests for such a product equally, therefore no discrimination.
He refused them service that he provides to other married couples - because they were gay.
The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament
Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by HandyDandy
So you are calling gays sinners?
Question: Is Ganja Legal for Rastas in the United States?
Marijuana, commonly known as ganja among Rastas, is illegal in most countries, including the US. However, as an important part of the Rastafari religion, is ganja smoking protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees religious freedom?
Answer:
No. Possessing marijuana is illegal in the United States regardless of religion. In fact, while a number of states have taken steps to decriminalize marijuana use, particularly for medical reasons, federal agencies can still arrest marijuana users within those states.
Originally posted by esdad71
The reality where in America we have a choice. Just like they have a choice of a baker as a "private" business, I should have the choice to choose who I want to serve especially if it goes against my core religious beliefs.
Point is that in the tolerant and liberal left leaning society that is out there, there is a plethora of bakeries they could go to and out of all of them, they went to one that was known, even by them, to not make same sex cakes.
They went into the Masterpiece Cake Shop thinking they’d spend a full day trying cakes for their ceremony. Instead the meeting lasted a few seconds.
“My first comment was, ‘We’re getting married,’ and he just shut that down immediately,” Craig said.
Mullin and Craig were stunned.
Originally posted by charles1952
The only thing that has changed is the product asked for, a gay wedding cake.
The couple are alleging the owners have a history of turning away same-sex couples.
Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Originally posted by markosity1973
Originally posted by HandyDandy
Originally posted by markosity1973
The point that I have been trying to make is that then opens up gay night clubs in particular to be sued in reprisal.
Good. If they are discriminating then they deserve it.
And this is where your straightness betrays you.
There is a good reason, albeit illegal why gay clubs do this. It is the only place a gay person can go and meet and make an advance on another person being safe in the knowledge they are not about to be beat up for it. I have been into gay clubs all over the world and the same entry policies apply. Yes some gay clubs do have events that see them open for straight folk but most are discriminatory to this day
Its actually not that easy out in the open world for 2 gay people to find one another you know. Sure the internet has changed things a bit, but we still need safe places to met.
i concur,
though, places i've done drag there have been straight guys who go with their Girlfriend, Likewise straight guys who just enjoy the entertainment,music,drinks Etc, straight people even go to pride events because they support the cause and community
no matter how much debates occurs, he refused based on discriminatory views, that is a law in Colorado, regardless if it was a Law or not, discrimination is wrong on any level and both sides
P.s. Off-topic, but an interesting thought experiment. Walk into a Halal bakery wearing a yarmulke and ask them to make a cake with a picture of Muhammad, kneeling before an Israeli flag on it. They want it for a special festival. The bakery refuses, claiming it's against their religion. Sue on the basis of religious discrimination. Profit. - C -
Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
In my world there is no her 'kind'. There is no black, white or gay. Only Americans. Each day we are chipped away at by those like who want to bring about equality by taking away rights and causing division, not unity. You give up your freedoms so we can all be the same. Why? Uniqueness is what makes progress. A voice is what makes change. Not targeted attacks on those who do not agree with you.
Rosa was a black woman who had no choice in the color she was born with and trying to compare black suffering to this case is simply wrong. Miss Parks had balls the size of a bull to do what she did. Miss Parks did not have a choice. She was just sick of having to roll over. These guys did.
Again, These two targeted someone who did not agree with their thoughts as did the other attention seekers. To even pull the race card is completely off base, and sad.
Those were real struggles
Anyone who would compare Rosa Parks to two gay men needing a wedding cake are reaching and using a real struggle to promote their own agenda.
edit on 8-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)
That's not quite accurate. They have not discriminated against gay customers or employees. They are discriminating against that product, a cake celebrating same-sex marriage.
They sought to deny services to someone because of a characteristic of that person.