Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

reply to post by markosity1973

Originally posted by markosity1973
I have no idea why you are trying to pretend this does not happen.

I am not pretending it doesn't happen. But depending on your state, it can be illegal and the establishment can be sued. That's all.

I don't know your state, so sexual orientation discrimination may not be illegal there. But in Colorado, which is where this lawsuit is taking place, it is illegal.

Oh, and I have been in MANY gay bars. NEVER did anyone ask me to leave because I'm straight.

Originally posted by markosity1973
Okay, challenge for you; name an exclusively straight business. Its not as easy as you think.

Because most business owners know that to discriminate is against the law.

but straight people really are consciously restricted from entering gay ones.

You still have yet to prove this.....

My local gay bar even has a night FOR straight people.....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Originally posted by markosity1973
I have no idea why you are trying to pretend this does not happen.

I am not pretending it doesn't happen. But depending on your state, it can be illegal and the establishment can be sued. That's all.
?
I don't know your state, so sexual orientation discrimination may not be illegal there. But in Colorado, which is where this lawsuit is taking place, it is illegal.

Oh, and I have been in MANY gay bars. NEVER did anyone ask me to leave because I'm straight.

edit on 6/8/2013 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

They bend the rules for girls because they add a little glamour they don't usually get aggro and are fun to party with

I spent a lot of time in clubs when I was younger and yes, I have even seen the odd girl kicked out though.

reply to post by markosity1973


Why are we even discussing this?

Is it to make it ok for one business to discriminate and disobey the law because other businesses MAY be doing the same?

Is that what you are trying to point out? That two wrongs make a right?

And if those gay businesses ARE discriminating against you, then sue them........or are you just making stuff up?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

But the law DOES hold business owners accountable for turning people away simply because of who they are.

no one is denying that, however, there is no evidence that "who they are" is the crux of the reason they were denied.

for all we know, the 'couple' may have be unruly, arrogant, boisterous or may have exhibited any number of behaviors, on-site, that would reasonably permit the refusal.

here, in FL, you'll still see plenty of signage refusing service to potential customers.

and, the other point you are refusing to accept is that participating in a 'wedding event' that isn't religiously acceptable to the bakery has NOTHING to do with the participants IN the wedding party.
and quite frankly, is a legitimate basis to refuse to provide the requested service.

yes, it is a fine line, however, those providing the service, are generally aware of it and how to not cross it, legally.

anyone stating that the baker MUST provide service is only fooling themselves.

which coincides with my statements, "we are Human as you are Human"

there are people in our community who may be more intolerant than others, there is even that within the community, there are those that seek attention by any means, and there are activist etc

there is no one 'Gay thought process'

i'm not for discrimination of any kind, i just don't like being viewed as a Sub-Human because my sexuality


'Equality'

Originally posted by HandyDandy
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Why are we even discussing this?

Is it to make it ok for one business to discriminate and disobey the law because other businesses MAY be doing the same?

Is that what you are trying to point out? That two wrongs make a right?

And if those gay businesses ARE discriminating against you, then sue them........or are you just making stuff up?

edit on 8-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)

I am making mention of it because the law applies to everyone. These same laws these people are trying to sue under could be turned against us and we could lose our social venues.

Yes I live in a place with strong antidiscriminatory laws and yes the gay clubs do ban straight people from entering them.
We get away with it mostly because straight people do not want to go to gay clubs and because the bouncers use the excuse of drunk and disorderly if the cops are called.

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by destination now
Nor, it seems do you give a flying hoot about manners and decorum...

What manners and decorum? I told you I didn't care about the UK when we are talking about the US. Stay on topic...

This site is not just for Americans you know.

It is when talking about a US business. I didn't say you couldn't talk about it, I say I couldn't care less about the UK. Sorry to hurt the feelings.....

Or does equality not apply when it does not suit your own agenda?

Stay on topic......that is an equal rule that is punishable equally.

I am on topic...I gave an example of a business that is exclusively gay, which is just as discriminatory as the claim in the OP...please keep up!

Does not matter where it is geographically, the principle is just the same.

And I have no issue whatsoever with the gay community, as I've said previously, my daughter is gay. What I don't like though are the unnecessary law suits brought by individuals, who have specifically attempted to use a business, which they know to be unlikely to cater for them, in the hopes of a settlement. The customers also had the freedom to decide which business to use and as it seems that this particular bakery was known for having an issue with gay customers, why the heck would they travel to a different state to order a cake, whilst making it known to the proprietor about their sexual orientation...which they must have done as their order was refused.

That's just wrong..I'd rather go to a business that welcomed my custom, and get the service I wanted, rather than go through a court case for a ridiculous non-issue

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Honor93

 

Originally posted by Honor93
if such is being enforced, perhaps a few businesses have yet to be advised ?
www.gaybreck.com...
gay lodging directory

Edited for clarity:

Regarding "The Bunkhouse Lodge", someone could sue them and win.

Did you actually try to go to their website? Because I did and it was a broken link.

Edit: Ah, I see you did. So, the argument has now been de-bunked as there is no place in those links that discriminate against heterosexuals. If the heteros want to join in, they are more than welcome.

edit on 8-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)

as usual, you are reaching for straws.
not only is the link accessible (from both postings), heteros aren't forcing themselves to be accomodated, especially in an environment in which they are obviously less than welcome.

businesses that 'cater' to persons engaging in activities that others find offensive are not likely to attract those clients who find the environment less than desirable.

children are permitted in bars (so long as they are accompanied by an adult) but how often do you find them there ??

Originally posted by Honor93
for all we know, the 'couple' may have be unruly, arrogant, boisterous or may have exhibited any number of behaviors, on-site, that would reasonably permit the refusal.

If that were the case, then there wouldn't be a problem. He specifically denied them a wedding cake for being gay.

anyone stating that the baker MUST provide service is only fooling themselves.

He must provide service EQUALLY. Not that he MUST provide service. There is a huge difference that you people are not seeing.

Had he given any other excuse than what he did, he would have been in the clear. I can refuse to hire a Muslim if I want to but I sure as hell can NOT state that is the reason.

The problem here is a stupid business man who couldn't come up with any other excuse than the truth...

Originally posted by destination now
That's just wrong..I'd rather go to a business that welcomed my custom, and get the service I wanted, rather than go through a court case for a ridiculous non-issue

I apologize if I came off as hostle. I did not mean to be.

When my husband ordered our wedding cake, the baker said "finally".....

And it was the best cake I've ever had

reply to post by HandyDandy



No worries

I understand your point of view totally, of course you should be free to use whatever business you want, but when it comes down to it, common sense should always rule, with the result, you don't like a particular business's ethics or practices or whatever, don't use them, but certainly don't force them to change their beliefs in order to cater to your own..that's true equality

Peace

reply to post by Honor93

Originally posted by Honor93
no one is denying that, however, there is no evidence that "who they are" is the crux of the reason they were denied.

From the source in the OP:

Phillips has said making a wedding cake for gay couples would violate his Christian religious beliefs, according to the complaint.

and, the other point you are refusing to accept is that participating in a 'wedding event' that isn't religiously acceptable to the bakery has NOTHING to do with the participants IN the wedding party.
and quite frankly, is a legitimate basis to refuse to provide the requested service.

What? The baker was not participating in the wedding event OR part of the wedding party. I don't understand your point here at all. What exactly is a legitimate reason for a cake-maker to refuse to make a cake?

anyone stating that the baker MUST provide service is only fooling themselves.

Well, Colorado law is CLEAR. We'll see what the court says.

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

Here's one...first link I clicked on...The Website states "Exclusively Gay Men only

Chaps Hotel Blackpool

...

I don't give a flying hoot about the UK. We are talking about the US here...the land of equality.

edit on 8-6-2013 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)

wow, talk about pot & kettle
several posts ago, i listed an entire neighborhood with exclusive homosexual enclaves in Miami, FL ... if that isn't good enough for you folks, nothing will be.

besides, this isn't about accomodations or private clubs or bars or any such thing.
THIS is about a cake, period.

if the couple wanted it soooooo badly, they could have gotten it, easy enough.
but no, they wanted to make a 'mockery' of whatever they could and they did.

reply to post by markosity1973

Originally posted by markosity1973
I am making mention of it because the law applies to everyone.

Colorado law does NOT apply to everyone in the country.

Yes I live in a place with strong antidiscriminatory laws and yes the gay clubs do ban straight people from entering them.

Sorry to doubt, but so many in this thread spout what they think the law is how it should be. Mind giving a link to the discriminatory laws in your state to back up your statement?

reply to post by HandyDandy

My local gay bar even has a night FOR straight people

duh, of course ... how else do you think they are going to get AROUND the laws ????
are you really as thick as you're coming across ?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


And here we do agree. If it can be proved they were denied service based on sexuality the court has no choice but to rule in favour of the couple.

The point that I have been trying to make is that then opens up gay night clubs in particular to be sued in reprisal. There have been a few close calls on this in my own town with our local club, but thus far thay have gotten away with it because of sympathetic judges but a case like this has the power to change all of that.

Oh and here's the link you requested

www.eoc.sa.gov.au...

reply to post by Honor93

Originally posted by Honor93
not only is the link accessible (from both postings), heteros aren't forcing themselves to be accomodated, especially in an environment in which they are obviously less than welcome.

Your links are fine. One is about a gay friendly town. The other is about gay friendly accommodations. Neither excludes straight people.

businesses that 'cater' to persons engaging in activities that others find offensive are not likely to attract those clients who find the environment less than desirable.

That's certainly their choice. But that's what it's about. Choice. I go to "dog friendly" hotels when traveling. Some find dogs offensive, but the businesses are not discriminating against those who don't have dogs.

I'm afraid you are the one who's "reaching".

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

My local gay bar even has a night FOR straight people

duh, of course ... how else do you think they are going to get AROUND the laws ????
are you really as thick as you're coming across ?

Straight people are welcome every night. Thursday there is a straight club that comes in.......

The gay bar is owned by 2 straight brothers. I really doubt they wouldn't like anyone's money as long as they are not "drunk and disorderly".

Originally posted by markosity1973
The point that I have been trying to make is that then opens up gay night clubs in particular to be sued in reprisal.

Good. If they are discriminating then they deserve it.