What Jerusalem?

reply to post by SimonPeter

Show me chapter and verse where Jerusalem was not to be rebuilt.

He already did.
You just have to put the two things together.
The Law says if someone in a city promotes idolatry and the city does not kill that person, then the city itself is to be utterly destroyed along with its inhabitants, never to be rebuilt.
Solomon and apparently others, were so guilty and should have been killed but weren't.
So because of those offenses, according to "Moses", Jerusalem should be destroyed and never rebuilt.
The fact is that it has been destroyed, more than once, so should, by the "Law", never be rebuilt, or in my opinion, ever again inhabited by those who purport to follow the Law, such as those today calling themselves "Jews".

reply to post by Phoenix267

Based on what I have read on the subject there is supposed to be another Messiah coming. According to the book of Malachi for example there was supposed to be 4 messiahs actually. There was supposed to be as follows.

The Lord.

Elijah the Prophet.

The Messenger.

And the Messenger of the Covenant.


The Messenger was first according to the book of Zechariah.

Zechariah 6
11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Then according to Christianity the Lord showed up with Elijah the prophet. But that leaves us with a problem.

The messenger of the covenant never appeared according to the book. But here's a reason why. According to Revelation 11-4 the branches/messengers of the old testament are the witnesses of Revelation. Which implies that he shows up and rebuilds the temple then returns later to protest the desecration of it later.

So the answer to your question is yes. He is a future event per prophesy.

reply to post by deadeyedick

. . . temple will be built in the us in two weeks time and that the us would be the new Jerusalem.

Supposedly there are only two places in the world where there is the same geological formation of quartzite as Mt. Zion, the other place is on fenced-off private property in Arkansas.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Show me chapter and verse where Jerusalem was not to be rebuilt.

It's in the OP. That's why I wrote the thread, to point out the verse.

reply to post by SimonPeter

The Temple about to be built has a purpose . The Antichrist will sit in the seat of God and try to claim he is God . The abomination of Desolation will take place . . .

When you write things like that, you should add a disclaimer, such as, "according to a particular cult theory".
According to the Bible there is no such thing as a person known as 'the Antichrist'.
There isn't anything about a temple being rebuilt other than the one built post-Babylonian exile.
The Abomination of Desolation that was predicted by Jesus, happened when the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD.
The person "claiming to be god" is in 2 Thess. which is a late forgery not written by Paul.

reply to post by SimonPeter

. . . It is appointed to every man to die . . .

That is not a commandment in the Bible, as if it is laying out some edict that everyone must die.
For one thing, Paul says not everyone shall sleep, in 1 Corinthians 15:51.
The writer of Hebrews was just using that as an analogy, about things that only have to happen once, which is normally the case with dying.
Could you identify which cult teaches that there is a law that everyone has to die at least once?
Or is that something that you came up with on your own?

reply to post by Deetermined

Herod only renovated and expanded the second temple before it fell in 70 AD.

Suppose you have a house. You say to yourself, "I've got a much larger cash flow now, and I want a bigger house."

Because of where your house is located, you must raise the foundation 15 ft. So you completely remove your house, raise the foundation 15 ft., build a new larger house out of all freshly quarried stone, freshly cut wood.

Would you then say to your neighbor, "No, it's not a new house, just a little touch up"?

I suspect that there is some magic(sorcerous) purpose to insisting that some future temple is the third. Why else pretend that Herod's temple was just a paint job for the 2nd temple?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

The Temple about to be built has a purpose . The Antichrist will sit in the seat of God and try to claim he is God . The abomination of Desolation will take place . . .

When you write things like that, you should add a disclaimer, such as, "according to a particular cult theory".
According to the Bible there is no such thing as a person known as 'the Antichrist'.
There isn't anything about a temple being rebuilt other than the one built post-Babylonian exile.
The Abomination of Desolation that was predicted by Jesus, happened when the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD.
The person "claiming to be god" is in 2 Thess. which is a late forgery not written by Paul.

For God's sake, jmdewey, learn your Bible!!!

When has anyone ever stood in the temple to declare themselves God, performed signs and wonders like Jesus, and then destroyed everyone that chose not to worship him as God as a result of it?

It hasn't happened yet.

reply to post by pthena


So, with your analogy, if I go and get reconstructive surgery, that just made me a new human with a new soul? NO!!!

reply to post by Deetermined

For God's sake, jmdewey, learn your Bible!!!

When has anyone ever stood in the temple to declare themselves God, performed signs and wonders like Jesus, and then destroyed everyone that chose not to worship as God as a result of it?

It hasn't happened yet.

I know enough about the Bible to be able to tell if something is in there or not.
What you just said is not.
For one thing, even the faker pretending to be Paul in the forged 2 Thess. does not say it has to be any particular temple, and could have meant one in Rome.
You are picking minute fragments from all over the Bible and splicing them together to support a theory invented in 1800 by John Nelson Darby.

reply to post by Deetermined

When has anyone ever stood in the temple to declare themselves God, performed signs and wonders like Jesus, and then destroyed everyone that chose not to worship him as God as a result of it?

You never heard of Antiochus IV Epiphanes?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Revelation 13

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

reply to post by Deetermined

So, with your analogy, if I go and get reconstructive surgery, that just made me a new human with a new soul? NO!!!

We aren't talking about human beings. If you got a whole new body that you moved into, that's called transmigration of the soul.

What we are talking about is idols, man made objects of stone which are said to house a god. So what god lived in Solomon's temple? What god lived in Zerubbabel's temple? and What god lived in Herod's temple?

Originally posted by pthena

You never heard of Antiochus IV Epiphanes?

Yes, I know of him.

When did he ever do all of the things posted in the scriptures above?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WashMoreFeet

 

Have you ever read the Bible, cover to cover, in Its entirety?

pthena, as he has stated on other threads, has completely worn out several Bibles from reading them through so many times.

I find his gross lack of historical knowledge and understanding to be had of OT events conspicuously telling otherwise.

Wearing out a Bible by thumbing through it seeking points of contention does not constitute reading the collective whole. Nor does using it as a resource to posit vain and provocative argument.

Keep reminding God's people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. (Titus 3:9)

Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. (1 Tim 4:7)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned to fables. (2 Tim 4:4)

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; they are conceited and understand nothing.
They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil surmisings, suspicions; 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw yourself. (1 Tim 6:3,4,5)

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sins, being condemned of himself. (Titus 3:9)

Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels (2 Tim 2:23)

Surely none of us alive today are beyond such reproach?

reply to post by pthena


The first temple was built as a place for the Jews to worship God and house the Ark of the Covenant. God led them until the temple was defiled by foreign idolaters. Then Israel and Judah split. There will come a day when Jesus will bring the two kingdoms back together again.

A lot of this is symbolism too for what's going to happen in the future.

reply to post by pthena


You show contempt for God . There has only ever been one God the Father . And you should know that if you did indeed read the Bible completely . It is not a dictionary where you turn to a page to seek a meaning . It is a continuous story about God and his creation . There is a plot to the Bible and while cherry picking your points to debate you have missed something . You do not stand on firm ground in your debate .

reply to post by jmdewey60


If you will read that post you will see that God chose Jerusalem for something more . If you ever can get clear of your Historism you could see the truth . But you have all but denied Christ any way so I see where you are coming from .

reply to post by WashMoreFeet

Nor does using it as a resource to posit vain and provocative argument.

You are quoting forgeries, Titus, and first and second Timothy.
Those were later writings to support a clerical class with special sanction of an organizational hierarchy.

reply to post by Deetermined

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

There is no reference to this beast being in a temple.
"Temple" or tabernacle, would be the place where God lives, along with "those who dwell in Heaven".
Considering John's use of imagery, and how these were 'visions' that happened 'in the spirit', it may be difficult to know what was being represented by the beast.
It may be somewhat of a stretch to say that all of these attributes and actions ascribed to these beasts and image are a single person, the Antichrist.
I think that most Revelation scholars see this as the human type of government that magnifies human powers and abilities while ignoring God as being of a higher nature.