Woman Fatally Shot by Police at Cosco Handing Out Pizza Samples.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by intrepid

 

I see the cops as guilty because if they can't disarm someone with a knife and scissors without shooting them, they don't deserve the badge of "protect and serve" US.

Would you be willing to deal with someone that had sharp objects? They get a carotid or femoral artery and you're dead.

Well, I wouldn't be real happy minus a nose or a few fingers either. Or eviscerated.

reply to post by Siberbat


They are capable of at least 30 rounds, but that's not my point.

If you got mags of rubber balls then you can stop the bad guy and get that intel.

While having both kinds of ammo is the best option i can think of, they also need to be retrained to be able to think fast about what to use and how.

There are many ways to take down a bad guy, but i still believe that against a knife of other sort ranged weapons there are better ways then going lethal.

reply to post by Kang69

Originally posted by Kang69

So, there's no other possible way of disarming someone with knife other then shooting them?

Does that seem logical to you?

That's not what I said.

We cannot accurately reach a conclusive outcome either way. The incident deserves to be brought into question, and to be investigated with scrutiny.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by intrepid

 

I see the cops as guilty because if they can't disarm someone with a knife and scissors without shooting them, they don't deserve the badge of "protect and serve" US.

Would you be willing to deal with someone that had sharp objects? They get a carotid or femoral artery and you're dead.

Well, I wouldn't be real happy minus a nose or a few fingers either. Or eviscerated.

Right. But the cop should? Maybe s/he's already given a lot of blood on the job and is hesitant to give any more. Hell, next time it might be your life.

Originally posted by MongusePro

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by MongusePro


My fear is that this is going to be accepted as self-defence... other officers are going to see that and copy. 'having a bad week? Wife driving you nuts... NO PROBLEM! Just shoot a minority, you'll feel great'

Way to generalize every action of an LEO.

Every week on ATS there's a good old fashion Cop bashing thread. I see this is this weeks favorite.


Not all LEO's are bad. Not all LEO's pull their guns. EVERY situation is different. Too bad there are some that want to make it that way.

Pardon my obvious frustrations

I have nothing but respect for coppers that do there job and do it right. It's a dangerous game and they have no idea if they will even make it home that night. A traffic stop gone bad and they're 6ft under...

I'm using this example to state categorically that 'THIS IS NOT RIGHT'! There is and most likely was another way.

I understand your frustration. But............

When it comes to life and death situations, unless you are the one in that situation, its kind of hard to make the judgement from the sidelines.

All it takes is a second to lose your life. I don't know what really happened, until they investigate it thoroughly, we can only assume. It sucks though knowing someone lost their life. ALL life is precious. MHO


BTW, Star and Flag.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta

Originally posted by sonnny1

All these things will be answered in a official inquest.

You have too much faith in a broken system.

No I don't.

That's an assumption. We will get a clearer picture of the facts.

FACTS. Thats what we need.

reply to post by intrepid


Almost anything can be "sharp" and used as a weapon. We don't know if she had a butchers knife or a butter knife. But that's really besides the point. I guess I'm just jaded or something. She must have been one tough SOB if she resisted a tazer. Even then she could have been peppered sprayed or hit by a baton.

Furthermore, shouldn't cops be trained to disarm people in the first place? So they don't have to shoot them? How do other countries deal with this stuff like Britain? The cops are not packing 24/7 unless an a emergency like that beheading.

This whole thing just sounds like it could have been handled a lot better. But then I guess it doesn't even really matter when you have sociopaths with badges.

"Demons are real" video shows plenty of that.

reply to post by shaneslaughta

While everyone my be different with electrical correction......being shot in the chest or diaphragm with a rubber ball is bound to stop them. Cant do much when you cant breath.

Granted, but again it's easy to miss. To me using a bean bag is pretty much the same as using a taser except that I believe the taser to be safer. I'm sure some people are scoffing, and I understand that a taser is a less lethal option, that some people die etc but hitting someone with a medical condition with a bean bag is going to be just as traumatic, and accidentally hitting them in the head is VERY dangerous.

The problem with less lethal is that it doesn't always work, and when a person is an active threat and close enough (watch some videos showing how fast you have to react to put someone down even at 21 feet) it's time to use lethal force.

I really wish there was a surefire NON lethal weapon, but at this point we're stuck with less than or lethal.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


Did she have a gun? We know that for sure that she didn't.

So again i pose the question.

There's no other possible way of dealing with someone a knife other then shooting them?

How do cops in Britain then deal with problems like this then?

reply to post by Kang69


They wait for twenty minutes until the cops with guns show up... Recent beheading?

I could have twisted a knife out of a womans hand, I would have broke her wrist doing it though. Don't the cops try to restrain a person anymore before shooting? When a stun gun doesn't work, you abandon trying to restrain the woman, have the police lost their sense because of technology? :shk:

Originally posted by Kang69
There's no other possible way of dealing with someone a knife other then shooting them?

How do cops in Britain then deal with problems like this then?

OK, that's a damn good question. I'd like to know.

Originally posted by Kang69
But in any case, was she wielding a god damn samurai sword? Seriously? Your telling me you can't disarm someone using even pepper spray or any other means without shooting them?

Sure, you can, but it's one of those things that's chancy. If she wasn't actively coming for me or anyone else, like I said, I'd try to taze or pepper spray her. OTOH, if she's running at me with a major piece of cutlery, hell no I'm not going to try for a disarm. Even though I assume she's probably not trained to use it, physically separating someone who's slicing at you from their knife manually is just bad odds. In that case, I would shoot your granny, and no, I would not wrestle her for it.

And a rifle with a bayonet is huge difference because of the reach.

Sorry, when I think of getting stabby I tend to invoke Army metaphors. I didn't say she was using a bayonet. In boot, there is/was a stock story you're told about the previous platoon of recruits, one of whom asks something stupid about bayonets. Generally, it's "is it true that if someone gets stuck on your bayonet you can just shoot them off with the rifle", and the punchline is usually 'if it gets down to using a bayonet you did something wrong in the first place'. In this case, the point I was trying to make in more detail and less metaphor for you is "If it gets down to having to wrestle someone for a knife with your bare hands, you've done something wrong" i.e. you should never do this, ever, but if you do you're likely screwed.

reply to post by Domo1

While on paper that seems like a good idea, imagine how easy in a high stress situation it would be to forget the round in the chamber or grab the wrong magazine.

That's an interesting thought... wrong ammo would explain why there were five shots instead of one or two. Trust me, when firing a volley off, you don't really have time to notice the blood before your finger quits pumping. The only reason someone would fire five shots at a single target would be lack of experience (I would hope that was unlikely), the first shots didn't have the desired effect (target falling down), or a previous intention to fire off five shots. That last option would make sense if firing rubber bullets.

The taser didn't affect the woman for whatever reason, the partner pulled out the next level in the arsenal, rubber bullets, fired five quick shots, then realized he had the wrong magazine. Oops.

Speculation, definitely, but it does explain a few things... an angry enough woman with a weapon could have required less-than-lethal but still high-powered force.

If this is the case, it does not excuse the officer's mistake by any means (increased authority comes with increased responsibility), but it does indicate some hope.... although it would mean this was a tragic accident, I would personally feel better that it was an accident than if it were shown to be intentional excessive force.

Yeah, I know, that would suck big time for the victim.... but mistakes do happen. That's life, unfortunately.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Domo1


Well it wasn't really recent but I know it was at least about a week ago. You know, the solider that was killed in the middle of the street? I'm not actually sure if it was a beheading or not. Yeah, I need to take a break from ATS a while.

reply to post by sonnny1


You can wait for your facts, but the truth is that something is wrong with the picture.

There have to be a few dozen cameras in Costco, more than likely there are a few angles of the incident.

I doubt the world will ever see the videos.


Yep i assumed you believe in the broken system, you want to wait for the facts.

Who's truth of the even do you want? Every truth is connected to the Witness version of reality.

What one sees may not be the same as another. Facts can be changes, people can be bought.....the only thing that's a fact is this person died from multiple gunshot wounds and we will never know her side will we?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by intrepid

 

I see the cops as guilty because if they can't disarm someone with a knife and scissors without shooting them, they don't deserve the badge of "protect and serve" US.

Would you be willing to deal with someone that had sharp objects? They get a carotid or femoral artery and you're dead.

Well, I wouldn't be real happy minus a nose or a few fingers either. Or eviscerated.

Right. But the cop should? Maybe s/he's already given a lot of blood on the job and is hesitant to give any more. Hell, next time it might be your life.

I'm agreeing with you. Only it doesn't have to be a direct hit to a major blood vessel. A common side effect of trying to manually disarm someone with a knife is that you lose fingers or take one to the gut. A major knife injury even if it's not lethal is no piece of cake.

reply to post by TheRedneck


I didn't think they were using rubber bullets. 5 shots to me seems perfectly reasonable. Cops shoot until the threat is down and the first few shots don't always stop someone. Someone getting shot is getting less of a "push" from the impacting rounds than the shooter's hand.

If the officer felt his life was in danger by a 38 year old woman with a knife, he should have shot her in the leg.

There is no reason to shoot to kill. If she was brandishing a firearm, sure. The fact is, she had a knife and sounds mentally unstable. No reason to end her life.

Originally posted by Kang69

How do cops in Britain then deal with problems like this then?

Umm, they shoot them dead in the streets, because their police can have guns and wield them but the people cant.

What did they think was going to happen, outlaw the gun and knifes baseball bats crowbars or machete will be the new weapon of choice.

The only thing they did there is stop the people from protecting them selves.