Woman Fatally Shot by Police at Cosco Handing Out Pizza Samples.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MongusePro
reply to post by intrepid

 

...i doubt...

Right, you don't know. If someone is waving a knife around I'm not about to ask how sharp it is. I've been all through the gun BS on this site and they contend that if someone is going to kill someone and they don't have a gun it's no problem. They would just use another tool, like a knife. You can't have it both ways. either a knife is a dangerous tool or it isn't.

What type of knife was it? A plastic knife that can barely cut anything, a normal butter knife, a steak knife, a butcher knife, or a hunting knife. I wouldn't see a plastic knife or butter knife as dangerous.

Originally posted by intrepid
This is off topic and I apologize for that but this needs pointing out. This thread COULD have been nasty, given the topic but it's been a pleasure to be a part of. ATS needs more discussion like what you guys have done here.

Ditto... The reason why i joined and its always good to see a reminder. ATS.. were the civil debate and criticise with reason and logic (most of the time :lol

This is an unnecessary death of a hard working human, people have not clue the circumstances that made this women act the way it did, the police as usual used excessive force and this time as lately deadly.

I imagine that mental illness or perhaps medication side effects were to blame for this one, but death was not the sentence the women deserved.

I guess in our society now is shoot first and ask later.

We reap what we sow and this is just the beginning.

So once upon a time, i was walking to a store a few block away. I was passed by a convly of speeding cops.
So i reach the store, to my amazement its surrounded by cops. A lone man on the payphone, apparently had threatened the clerk with a weapon in his pocket moments earlier. I stood behind a police car as the crowds grew.

They tried to negotiate with him while he was calling people. They gave him minutes to comply and he didnt.
The SWAT team showed up after a few minutes. Out of the truck comes 2 men with shotguns.

"Sir please comply or we will open fire" the man did not care and went about his conversation.
They kept asking him to lye down and he did not even pay attention to them. Just like they were not there.

The people in the crowd were all talking saying they wont shoot him, i turned and said just you wait.

a minute goes by and the man still on the phone turns towards the police, the SWAT guys opened fire and everyone was screaming in crowd.....you just killed him!

He was not dead or even bleeding, they shot him with a beanbag from a shotgun and stopped him dead in his tracks.


My question is why doesn't the police carry less than lethal ammo as their primary defense?

Why did they have to call in the swat team?

I wonder if they will ever publicly release the video. I'd say there is a very strong chance that this incident was caught on camera.

Originally posted by marg6043


I guess in our society now is shoot first and ask later.

Yep innocent until proven guilty.....if you make it to trial

I guess someone forgot to read the fine print.

Originally posted by marg6043
This is an unnecessary death of a hard working human, people have not clue the circumstances that made this women act the way it did, the police as usual used excessive force and this time as lately deadly.

I imagine that mental illness or perhaps medication side effects were to blame for this one, but death was not the sentence the women deserved.

I guess in our society now is shoot first and ask later.

We reap what we sow and this is just the beginning.

We reap what we sow and this is just the beginning.

You Sir/Madam just hit the nail on the head for me. This is the reason i debate these issues, this is what i fear and i do not fear much.

“Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence and thereby eventually lose all ability to defend ourselves and those we love. In a modern economy it is impossible to seal oneself off from injustice. - Julian Assange

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
My question is why doesn't the police carry less than lethal ammo as their primary defense?

Why did they have to call in the swat team?

edit on 1-6-2013 by shaneslaughta because: (no reason given)

Time would be my guess. You can't carry everything or you'd be bogged down and couldn't move. Do they even carry that stuff in the truck? As to SWAT, also time. I would assume that it takes much longer to activate a special unit as opposed to sending a car already in the area.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta

My question is why doesn't the police carry less than lethal ammo as their primary defense?

Is simple, we the people of this nation that allowed the corrupted politicians we got to pass acts like the patriot act, and have given the right to government agencies at federal and local level to shoot and kill us at will with "behaviour" as one of the reason to commit murder and get away with it.

We now have the police to become judges and excutioners in our streets, is not care anymore when it comes to wasting human life, then we wonder where the terrorist are.

edit on 1-6-2013 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by intrepid


Why cant one officer carry lethal the other rubber bullets.

The SWAT team was there only a few minutes after city PD. The SWAT team is 10 miles away from my city.

I cant help but see how beneficial it would be for all parties involved in disputes ETC.

reply to post by MongusePro

Again i bring up the shoot 1st ask questions and assess later... unfortunately it's a growing trend.

I cannot argue that it at least appears to be a growing trend, and a trend that concerns me on a personal level when I hear about situations where the stun gun "didn't work." It will not work on a small percentage of the population, and I may well be in that small percentage. My own internal resistance is fairly high; the same 120VAC household current that shocks the Hades out of most people just gives me a slight tickle. Now, I have no idea how the taser power would affect me, as I have not had the same experience with them as I have with accidentally grabbing the wrong wires. Maybe it would disable me, maybe it would kill me (some cardiac conditions can be dormant), or maybe it would just tick me off that I had been shot.

If it did just tick me off, though, is that in itself enough to open the door for deadly force? If I am threatened with a taser, should I assume they mean a gun because the taser might not work? In such a situation, would I fight back against the threat to my very life where I might not have fought back without the threat?

Tasers were developed as an alternative to deadly force, but in reality they have the potential to be deadly in themselves. Police have (from my experience) not been trained in this aspect; the official story is that tasers are non-lethal and 100% effective, period. Evidence of inadequate training can be seen in stories where suspects are tasered, fail to meet demands for specific movements due to the effects of the taser, then are tasered again and again in an ill-begotten attempt to make them comply. This is an example of how those using the tasers are not adequately trained in their use and misuse and believe the official documentation designed to sell tasers. When confronted with evidence to the contrary (poor effect or serious injury), it is apparently just attributed to "one of those things."

So with the taser being "non-lethal", police are very apt to use it for even minor infractions; after all, it doesn't hurt anyone, but it does immobilize them. The dependency on tasers has also grown to the extent that if that taser does not work, too many police immediately take the next step and discharge their firearm.

This is a disturbing development and I do not see it as "cop-bashing." I see it as a dangerous, even deadly, social issue that is screaming for attention and yet is receiving none. We need training in the actual ability of tasers to assist in a situation, by third-party interests that will provide real hard information; we need inquiries into the firing of tasers similar to those conducted when a firearm is discharged, to make it more difficult on the officers when a taser is used; after all, that is the purpose of firearm discharge investigations. And finally, we need a little more common sense to be exercised by those who we have granted such powers to. Granny isn't threatening you because she cusses you out from her wheelchair, and she doesn't need to be tased to make sure she is no threat. The punk with a gun who you are about to have to shoot, though, sure, tase away and if that don't work, turn out his lights with a gun. In between, use a little common sense; everyone you meet is not a suspect.

Heh, sorry... didn't mean that to turn into a rant... but I guess it needed to be said.

TheRedneck

reply to post by marg6043


I have to agree with you, the patriot act was the end of the USA that i knew.

Now all i see is USA the Corporation, we are all slaves to the system, most are too blind to see.


Deviating again.......99% of the time there is a way to resolve things peacefully, or at least non lethally.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
My question is why doesn't the police carry less than lethal ammo as their primary defense?

Time would be my guess. You can't carry everything or you'd be bogged down and couldn't move. Do they even carry that stuff in the truck? As to SWAT, also time. I would assume that it takes much longer to activate a special unit as opposed to sending a car already in the area.

Since they were called in, I assume that they arrived to the scene, while in their police car.

There was no need for them to 'carry everything'. They should have already known what they were up against, and that she was armed with scissors and a knife.

They should all have beanbag shotguns in their cars. Even if it was in the trunk, it would still only take a few seconds longer. Driver-Cop pushes button to pop the trunk, and Passenger-Cop runs around the back of the car and grabs it, before running inside.

Originally posted by MongusePro
reply to post by zysin5

 

Maybe, maybe not but we don't live in a minority report style world yet. You can still be good until the point were you go postal. Either way a tragic story and a terrible way to go.

Absolutely agree, Tragic end to a tale that we do not have all the details about.
After reading others posts and my own thoughts on this.
A little excessive use of force, They could have at the very least disarmed this woman, and it did not warrant death. Like others said.. Even if they did have to shoot.. That is risky, a stray bullet could have done more harm to others.
What these cops can't handle a woman with a knife and or sissors.. At worse one cop could have been stabbed. But to kill the woman.. Yeah a little over the top. So in no way am I in defense of the cops on this one.
But again, not defending the crazy lady either. Could have been handled much better IMO.

PS-- Big Carlin fan here like your avatar!


Edit- Not to mention this was at a Cosco in a public area. Opening fire in any public zone is VERY risky, and the cops are lucky a by stander was not in the line of fire.
I thought cops where trained to handle issues and know how to disarm mentally unstable people with knifes?
Guess it was easier for them to just blast her, and put her down to her death, rather than risk their own skin.
Shameful, and shows they lack proper training at best here.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


I agree, its mere seconds to change your mag from FMJ to rubber balls. Even handguns can fire rubber ball ammo.

There is no excuse they cant have both. They should be outfitted for all kinds of surprises.

I think it's a bit odd that a pizza sampler would be armed with scissors. Why would you carry scissors? I could see a knife, maybe, for cutting up the pizza.

It's almost like she's wagging scissors around for no good reason. I mean, I don't carry scissors on me. I usually have a knife, but not scissors. Maybe she was a bit odd and the pizza pressure finally got to her.

Or maybe there's a larger conspiracy - it seems that Costco is the place for people to go totally whack and get shot by police. Seems like I remember some vet getting popped by cops in a Las Vegas Costco a few years back.

reply to post by Bedlam


Mom used to cut pizza with scissors. You had to with hers. It was an inch thick. The...best...pizza....

reply to post by shaneslaughta

I have to take up for the police in this issue.

Police do have a hard job; they don't know from one minute to the next what will be required of them. Stopping a guy for a turn signal out? He might be an armed felon in a stolen car that just hasn't been reported yet. Improbable, but it happens. Worst case is they will need a 12-gage pump... they might need beanbags. Which would I carry? The 12-gauge pump.

They are prepared for most situations, but SWAT is prepared for almost anything in a static location. There's a reason they drive a van instead of a cruiser; they don't have to chase people down on the highway, but they do have to handle extremely dangerous situations. Vans have more room for more tools.

We don't need a lot more rules about what cops carry; they carry what they expect to need. We need better cops, thinking cops. The good ones seem to be retiring, and the rookies are... well... mostly just not up to the job it seems.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Mom used to cut pizza with scissors. You had to with hers. It was an inch thick.

The...best...pizza....

There's a great idea - Tomco Pizza Shears. We even include some patterns so you can cut your pizza into exciting shapes.

I wonder with the so call police and authorities hiding behind the "behavior pattern this days as a mean to use deadly force against the population" and with many death related as side effects of this new trend, are we going to see a new legislation that will bring the new behavior guidelines that we the common citizens will have to abide by to avoid been murdered by the same authorities that are suppose to be protecting us?.

Then again what will be considered the right type of behavior expected from me to avoid been targeted and murdered without our nation falling no only on a police state that we already are but a state rule by dictatorship and tyranny.

Are we to get use to now see our felow Americans an even us been executed in the streets because they do not follow certain behavior patterns.

Still even when in this case the women was becoming a tread to herself and patrons in the store it was many other ways to deal with this problem before murdering her the excuse of a taser that didn't work is poor excuse for death