Woman Fatally Shot by Police at Cosco Handing Out Pizza Samples.

Originally posted by intrepid
No win situation for the cops here on ATS. The source says:

Scott reportedly became upset when she ran out of pizza, reported Northern Virginia Bureau Chief Julie Carey. Witnesses said she was waving a knife and scissors, threatening employees.

They used a stun gun first then a firearm. If they hadn't and an innocent was stabbed in the neck and died those here critical of the cops would then be saying they weren't doing their job.

the problem is it is very hard to defuse a situation when you are pointing death in someones face.
You terrify people and then expect rationality...

If those officers fired a round into the ground she probably would of pissed her pants and woken up.

Originally posted by MongusePro
At the same time i can't help but think the officer acted out of hand. Was it really impossible to fire a bullet into the arm, leg, lower torso?

Nahhh too much paperwork.

Originally posted by MongusePro
Agreed a sad turn of events which could have turned out differently, instead a mother is dead. I to wish the suspect fully understood the severity of the situation. At the same time i can't help but think the officer acted out of hand. Was it really impossible to fire a bullet into the arm, leg, lower torso?

I wouldn't even go that far..Someone can die just as easily from a shot to the arm, leg or lower torso.

What I want to know is were their any other non-lethal options, did they have time to implement those other options and at the time the officer pulled his gun was anyone else in immediate risk.

For the people that can't engage in logical conversation (not you MongusePro) it must make you feel great to be an armchair warrior..I am sure you would have reacted in exactly the right way if you were in a situation like this.

reply to post by zysin5


Maybe, maybe not but we don't live in a minority report style world yet. You can still be good until the point were you go postal. Either way a tragic story and a terrible way to go.

The article states that she became upset when she ran out of Pizza. Damn that pizza must have been good!!

Waving a knife and scissors around, particularly in front of armed police, will get you shot and as in this case, killed. I don't think the police bother trying to injure anyone anymore, shoot to kill seems to send out a tougher message I guess.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta

Originally posted by MongusePro
At the same time i can't help but think the officer acted out of hand. Was it really impossible to fire a bullet into the arm, leg, lower torso?

Nahhh too much paperwork.

Cops are taught to shoot center mass. This tshirt explains that.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


ok.. considering the story that gave me a laugh... alas it's true... it's not about protecting and serving anymore it's about it being a 'job' and a hard one... The copper knows he's immune to prosecution due to the initial threat so why bother? *sigh*

reply to post by intrepid


I can't believe the cop(s) couldn't have taken the knife or scissors from her and subdued her. Cops are paid to be in harm's way. They are WAY too trigger happy. Just recently, some cops were called to a truck stop in my city after someone called 911 to report a "crazy man". It was a trucker who was diabetic, and was having medication and blood sugar issues which caused him to act erractically. He was holding a large wrench and was "talking incoherently". A cop just flat-out gunned him down . This happens way too frequently. These cops need to at least TRY to subdue the person, even if it means getting cut or otherwise injured. Cops are on record having said things like "They don't pay me enough to risk my ass." It's easier to just shoot the pizza sample lady. They know they'll get away with it.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by shaneslaughta

Originally posted by MongusePro
At the same time i can't help but think the officer acted out of hand. Was it really impossible to fire a bullet into the arm, leg, lower torso?

Nahhh too much paperwork.

Cops are taught to shoot center mass. This tshirt explains that.

Maybe they should be taught differently when they are not shooting at people holding guns.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by shaneslaughta

Originally posted by MongusePro
At the same time i can't help but think the officer acted out of hand. Was it really impossible to fire a bullet into the arm, leg, lower torso?

Nahhh too much paperwork.

Cops are taught to shoot center mass. This tshirt explains that.

So that must mean that common sense goes out the window?
Clearly a range limited weapon such as a knife can easily be countered with distance and pepper spray, tazer, or rubber bullets.

Maybe it's time for cargo nets and lassos for taking down crazy people Hatari style.

reply to post by hamburgerler


Agreed.. but it appears from story after story of bad practice that officers can no longer think critically when under pressure. They just draw and pull.

reply to post by MongusePro


I'm sorry but when someone has a knife and i have a gun, i wouldn't shoot to kill....just disarm. No matter if i am immune to prosecution or not....i would have to live with the fact that i took another life.
I couldn't live whit my self if i killed someone that could have been disarmed with minimal threat.


just like this story near my home.
Shot in hand
I think the cop in this story deserves a medal at least. If i ever meet him i would shake his hand and thank him for being a HUMAN!

if I, as a private citizen, was accosted by a woman waving a knife at me, can I shoot her to death, and claim self defense?....all you women out there better not pick up a knife and wave it at anyone, or you are toast.

I never realized those food vendors were so dangerous!
And I let my wife go up to them all of the time, I lused to let my kids also!!
But really...

reply to post by Cobaltic1978


Saying that someone was waving a knife or scissors around, or in this case, implying that she was using the weasel words "witnesses said" is also a terrific way to cover theoretical wrong-doing.

reply to post by opethPA

Originally posted by opethPA

How do you know it was not a last resort, didn't the article say they tried a stun gun first?
Maybe the alleged suspect should not be approach people with sharp objects in a threatening manner?

One thought that crossed my mind while reading about this, was that the woman possibly might still be alive if the cops would've skipped past using the stun gun, and just shot her in the leg before she was able to get very close to them.

It could be that the reason for firing numerous shots was because he thought she was about to stab his partner.




On the other hand, they could've tried pepper spray before she was able to get close to them. Then her eyes would have already been burning, at the time they got her with the stun gun.

Originally posted by jimmyx
if I, as a private citizen, was accosted by a woman waving a knife at me, can I shoot her to death, and claim self defense?....all you women out there better not pick up a knife and wave it at anyone, or you are toast.

I don't know. Let's ask Trayvon Martin. Oh wait, he's dead. And he didn't have a weapon.

Originally posted by opethPA

Originally posted by MongusePro
Agreed a sad turn of events which could have turned out differently, instead a mother is dead. I to wish the suspect fully understood the severity of the situation. At the same time i can't help but think the officer acted out of hand. Was it really impossible to fire a bullet into the arm, leg, lower torso?

I wouldn't even go that far..Someone can die just as easily from a shot to the arm, leg or lower torso.

What I want to know is were their any other non-lethal options, did they have time to implement those other options and at the time the officer pulled his gun was anyone else in immediate risk.

For the people that can't engage in logical conversation (not you MongusePro) it must make you feel great to be an armchair warrior..I am sure you would have reacted in exactly the right way if you were in a situation like this.

edit on 1-6-2013 by opethPA because: (no reason given)

For one i am a British citizen, this as you know means i have very limited access to guns. The most ive shot is a under and over pump action single # with practice slugs so im not used to a world of guns.

Due to this i have no idea how i would act in this situation with a gun. Without a gun i would likely try to talk her down and if that failed launch a projectile at her whilst going for her legs.

My fear is that this is going to be accepted as self-defence... other officers are going to see that and copy. 'having a bad week? Wife driving you nuts... NO PROBLEM! Just shoot a minority, you'll feel great'

There's a lot to this story that doesn't make sense.

There was apparently no previous indication of a problem. The woman probably did have access to a knife and scissors, both of which I admit are deadly, but why would she begin to threaten employees and customers over something so seemingly minor as running out of pizza? That would indicate a mental condition that was not indicated by her earlier actions.

A stun gun, as I have said many times, has different effects on different people. Most people will be immobilized and experience severe pain; some will die; some will be hardly affected. It depends on the internal body resistance and on the general cardiac health of the individual, both of which are quite variable. I believe, therefore, that the stun gun did not work, but what about mace? What about disarming hand-to-hand? A knife and scissors may be deadly, but only at close range (the article did not state she was an expert at knife-throwing). A gun is a long-range weapon.

There were five shots. Why? Will one shot, two at the most, not bring down a woman with a pair of scissors?

I will acquiesce to the need for the police, the need to disarm the woman, the need to restore order in a public venue, but not to the use of a long-range weapon five times because the stun gun had little effect. I do not believe there are any laws against having a high internal body resistance in Virginia.

I believe this is probably an example of excessive force. Sorry Intrepid.

TheRedneck