Woman Fatally Shot by Police at Cosco Handing Out Pizza Samples.

Originally posted by Maverick7
The problems I have are these:

They didn't clear the store before getting close enough to confront her

They got too close, and if no one else was around who were they saving from this woman? It was basically a static stand off situation that could have been monitored from a distance.

There were from 2 to 5 cops on the scene, enough overwhelming force so that no one cop needed to be fearful and panic.

They shot (at) her with a tazer that did not function. Each cop has a tazer. Shoot her again.

They shot not one, not two, not three but FIVE shots at her. It sounds bizarre. Most civilians go down and fetal position when shot once. Sounds like it was a 'she's still moving, shoot her four more times' situation. It sounds to me as though the cop was panicked, scared and out of control.

His partner did not shoot her even once. In a REAL threat she'd have been shot by both cops, maybe twice each. The fact that the other cop(s) did not shoot her is suspicious to me.

She had, as of yet, not committed any crimes, not touched, wounded or harmed anyone. She deserves to be treated with some respect and care not to harm her.

Yet this small woman, a model employee to that point is shot five times until she was dead, and it appears to me WELL PAST the point of stopping the threat.

Finally, we still don't have any updates. This smacks of holding back while people get rid of evidence and get their stories straight.

Star for the taking the words out of my mouth.

You know there is a simulator for these types of events recently set-up in the UK. Ok, yeah it's only paintball but they use SWAT tactics for hostage negotiation and rescue. I think i might go with collages so i can really get a picture of how hard it is to assess these situations when in the thick of it. Perhaps i might get a clearer opinion on the matter.

Originally posted by shaneslaughta
Of course, convenient that they tazed first and it didn't work.

I am sure that was the plan all along. When they left their vehicles they have a choice of tazers...the one that works and the one that doesnt. They had colluded ahead of time to grab the one that didnt work so they would have an excuse to shoot someone, anyone.



Really?

Originally posted by Jefferton
I guess you shouldn't wave a potential weapon around threatening people.


Come on guys..

Hands are a potential weapon.. so they can shoot me when i wave them down for help??

Originally posted by SheopleNation
It's a shame that this Women had to lose her life, but I am sure if any of you cop haters had your child, or any family member for that matter, within the vicinity of this knife waving nutcase then you might be a bit more understanding concerning the action that this officer was forced to take. It's a tragedy either way.

There are good cops and bad cops, know why? Because they are people just like us. Some of you need to fix your brain. ~$heopleNation

You act as though the cops were just sitting around enjoying a donut and a knife waving Viking berserker woman descended upon them.

No, they had ample warning, ample time to get geared up and ample time to respond in a large overwhelming force. After all keeping other COSTCO customers safe was clearly NOT their priority. They didn't even clear the store. They RUSHED in, being heroic discovered that a 5'3, 38 yo woman provoked unreasoning fear in ONE of them and he shot her five times, as though she was a charging rhinoceros. His partner clearly did not panic, he didn't shoot her at all.

reply to post by MongusePro


"waving" a knife and scissors...like waving them around screaming that she's out of pizza be ause she's having a nervous breakdown, 15 feet away from the nearest bystander, or "waving" as in lunging and slicing toward nearby individuals who couldn't get away? If the po,ice were there already, i'd say its a safe assumption that nobody was close by, and were the police to fire weapons at all, it was probably highly unnecessary to fire a kill shot.

I think the problem is that too many police are hired who do not have the proper mental constitution to carry a weapon or to wield the authority to use it. Further, in most places, a cop will rarely, if evver encounter a situation which requires them to discharge their weapon. It sounds to me like a guy who panicked under pressure, and another example of why I think there shoukd be a significantly more selective process in recruiting and hiring police officers. IMO, at least 80% of them are not qualified. Those who would be qualified likely deserve $100k/yr+, as it is rare for someone to have the right mindset to be a police officer.

Should she wave a knife and scissors? Obviously not. Could I have disarmed her safely, with at worst her receiving a concussion and a laceration, with no special training? Easily.

Originally posted by Maverick7
His partner clearly did not panic, he didn't shoot her at all.

I'm going to make the context-free assumption that he was probably the one with the Taser.

If you're in close quarters with the lady, and she's got a knife, you won't want to depend on the Taser getting the job done, because it doesn't always (case in point). Thus it's likely one drew the taser and one the service weapon and when the taser didn't work the pistol did.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
So this is pretty much a whole 13 pages of people who believe anything the media reports with two exceptions?

And these are the same people who don't believe anything reported by the MSM?

15 pages of people ASSuming things and judging the victim as psychotic or on drugs
only one post lost in all the noise, pointed out the possibility of Hypoglycemia

Neuroglycopenic manifestations

Abnormal mentation, impaired judgment
Nonspecific dysphoria, moodiness, depression,
crying, exaggerated concerns
Negativism, irritability, belligerence, combativeness, rage
Personality change, emotional lability
Fatigue, weakness, apathy, lethargy, daydreaming, sleep
Confusion, amnesia, lightheadedness or dizziness, delirium
Staring, "glassy" look, blurred vision, double vision
Flashes of light in the field of vision
Automatic behavior, also known as automatism
Difficulty speaking, slurred speech
Ataxia, incoordination, sometimes mistaken for "drunkenness"
Focal or general motor deficit, paralysis, hemiparesis
Paresthesia, headache
Stupor, coma, abnormal breathing
Generalized or focal seizures
Memory loss, amnesia

better keep an eye on your blood sugar levels
or else be "suicided" by cop


note also the ongoing derailment *COUGH* offtopic dialog better left for the guns and ammo subforum
by members who should know better, argue you should follow the rules in general and OBEY, whilst breaking them here in particular [the sad thing is they aren't getting paid to troll for their department]
ROFL
"Sane" people and LEO'S
['murica's version of "mad dogs and englishmen"]

reply to post by MongusePro


I would wonder if the officer could have been more successful wounding the woman to make her stop rather than resorting to deadly force. Who knows why she got upset over running out of pizzas or if there was more to it. Maybe, she could have made a recovery from what ailed her if she were allowed to live.

Originally posted by SheopleNation
1-It's a shame that this Women had to lose her life, 2-but I am sure if any of you cop haters 3-had your child, or any family member for that matter, within the vicinity of this knife waving nutcase then you might be a bit more understanding concerning the action that this officer was forced to take. 4-It's a tragedy either way.

There are good cops and bad cops, know why? Because they are people just like us. Some of you need to fix your brain. ~$heopleNation

1-translation: i don't really give a shizzle, but will sociop*COUGH* "sanely" pretend to
2-this cop "hater"* lives in jurisdiction, where as of january past, police follow a policy of shoot to kill at the least sign of resistance resistance includes raising your voice, arguing, or making any sudden moves

ROFL

as of january past, i have a policy of my own, to be applied at the least sign of initialization of force, which includes intentionally invading my personal space to trigger fight/flight reactions. the local cops have been apprised of this, none have seen fit to call my "bluff" as of yet. [keyboard "tough" guys need not apply.]

*one only hates that which one fears

3-not even going to debate this one, as it is merely a projection of police-think,[oxymoron, I know] not everyone is a shivering, cowardly, sociopa*COUGH* Defender of the "Sane Society" with a trigger finger starting at their own shadow. never mind the extremely offensive projection of lackadaisical carelessness regarding the security of ones children in public.

4-tragedy indeed for the murder victim and her loved ones, especially her kids, who will then have salt rubbed in the wounds in terms of seeing accountability and justice.
for her killer, [and accomplice] it's a career milestone, followed by raises in rank and pay,
hence a comedy.

Originally posted by dogstar23
reply to post by MongusePro

 

Should she wave a knife and scissors? Obviously not. Could I have disarmed her safely, with at worst her receiving a concussion and a laceration, with no special training? Easily.

So true.

It's sad and alarming to see the lack of compassion and respect for human life that is spreading like a cancer through law enforcement. There are so many ways to handle such a situation which do not involve the use of potentially deadly force.

This woman was hardly an adept knife and sword warrior!

Why the mad rush to instantly terminate a situation by seriously injuring or killing someone?

This just emphasizes how incompetent law enforcement has become in some parts of this country. Why would a competent police officer kill a citizen under those circumstances? There is no excuse!
Officer forgets to bring pepper spray?
Officer forgets to plug his taser into the charging unit overnight and it doesn't work when he tries to fire it (I'm not suggesting that tasing the woman would have been justified)?
Officer forgets to put on his body armor before punching in for his shift?
Officer forgets to __________ (fill in the blank)?
Officer still in mental fog from long session of playing World of Warcraft online and is unable to distinguish reality from fantasy?
Officer lacks the physical ability and mental discipline to handle interactions with distressed citizens?
Officer sees all citizens as a threat?
Police department doesn't adequately train its officers in basic hand-to-hand combat methods?
Police department doesn't require the minimally safe personal fitness standards required of any law enforcement officer?
So officer in the field resorts to the lazy officer's way of handling any challenging situation: keep a good safe distance for officer's personal safety and shoot the person. Problem solved. Officer is safe. Dead citizen should have known better than to let her blood sugar levels stray from normal levels.

I can think of many ways of subduing her without harm. Sure, it might have taken anywhere from 5 minutes to more than an hour longer than shooting her on the spot. I would propose that her life had far more value than the hour of time law enforcement would might have had to expend to properly handle this situation.

Originally posted by RoScoLaz
we are at a moment in time when the police have total carte blanche to do as they wish. they've never had it so 'good'. they are untouchable. they are all powerful. they are the last word.

Unfortunately this is the truth. And I just finished mentioning in another thread that the citizens of the US are becoming desensitized to these types of actions, will just further the aggressive action used by the police and other government groups. I was appalled at the police/government tactics during OWS, a peaceful protest with a permit. They treated these individuals like terrorists, and attempted to INFILTRATE the groups, with helicopters flying overhead, like these people were not US citizens with certain inalienable rights.

And the police shootings of innocent civilians is nothing new. The only thing that would be new in a scenario like this would be if the officer was criminally prosecuted. And if they attempt to use the argument of a "high stress" environment, and all that other BS, then they should still be prosecuted for not properly screening and training these people. Police, like other government officials, should be held to a much higher standard of behavior than the average citizen. They are supposed to represent, to protect us, and therefore they have a huge responsibility. It is not just another "job." And this is exactly why they need to be punished. When an average person commits a crime for a reason similar to that of an officer who commits a crime, the average criminal who did not act with predetermination is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Officers are still US citizens, and are still held to the same laws as an average citizen, even if they are tasked with upholding the law.

Okay, seventeen pages in so far, and I haven't seen anyone bring this up, so I will.

The victim's ex-husband, last I heard, was "refusing comment" on his wife's murder, but was known to be fighting her for custody of their two daughters.

I don't think it is completely unreasonable to wonder if the ex should have his known associates and phone records checked out. Did he know this cop? Could they even have, perhaps, been friends? The entire situation is so extremely bizarre. Something's very wrong.

It wouldn't be the first time a crooked cop got himself some illegal money on the side. Just sayin'.

reply to post by dubiousone


Excellent extrapolation on my point which you quoted there! That's what really gets me about the whole thing! I mean, I wasn't there, but I can't imagine how there wasn't a sure-fire way to subdue the woman without risk of anyone being stabbed, without shooting her. Or even if she was shot, did it have to be a kill-shot?! Another thought to that - doesn't the whole "last resort" principal also have to do with the possibility of collateral damage? Bullet ricochet, missed target, etc., the likelihood of a bystander being hurt or killed skyrocketed when the officer chose to pull that trigger instead of pelting her with just about any nearby product until she dropped the knife amd scissors.

Originally posted by dogstar23
reply to post by dubiousone

 

Excellent extrapolation on my point which you quoted there! That's what really gets me about the whole thing! I mean, I wasn't there, but I can't imagine how there wasn't a sure-fire way to subdue the woman without risk of anyone being stabbed, without shooting her. Or even if she was shot, did it have to be a kill-shot?! Another thought to that - doesn't the whole "last resort" principal also have to do with the possibility of collateral damage? Bullet ricochet, missed target, etc., the likelihood of a bystander being hurt or killed skyrocketed when the officer chose to pull that trigger instead of pelting her with just about any nearby product until she dropped the knife amd scissors.

None of us can really comment on the exact circumstances, but we can assume that there was at least a perceived threat to great/grave bodily harm. Told to drop weapon, she refused. Shot with taser, and this did not work (we dont know if the taser itself didnt function or if it simply had no effect on her). Still came at cop with knife, she gets shot.

Yes, it had to be a kill shot. If someone is pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger, they better damn well be shooting center mass, for multiple reasons that have all been stated throughout this thread. If I point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you damn well better believe that I am shooting to kill, and by the time we've gotten to that point, I've got a VERY good reason to do so, because it wouldnt happen otherwise.

Sooo many sick people commenting saying it\'s fine to kill someone...
And that police should shoot to kill people....
And that guns are totally acceptable...

Urgh.. sickens me

Anyway the \'logic\' from the Americans replying seems to be;
\"To prevent people being harmed, We must kill\"

^^ do you not see the stupidity there?

Anyway there have been a lot of comments about police in the UK,
How they would\'ve dealt with it etc.

When I was a lot younger I happened to be witness to
a crazy woman waving a knife around at kids infront of her home,

Police did respond in numbers and brought a dog unit in as well,
NO FIREARMS!!!
They surrounded the woman giving her a wide birth,
Then simply told her that if she doesn\'t comply and put the knife
On the floor, Then they will release the dog (a beautiful Germany shepherd)

She dropped the knife, no one harmed

I find it sickening to think that a much better funded police force
In the U.S to a lesser situation (no kids) but with similar circumstances,
Decided that the best course of action was to murder a woman.....

There is no such thing as justifiable murder!
Give it a different better sounding name, but 1 person killing another
Is murder....

Well done police, you murdered a woman and now legions of americans
Are proclaiming how they need the right to commit murder in trivial situations

Originally posted by flyswatter

None of us can really comment on the exact circumstances, but we can assume that there was at least a perceived threat to great/grave bodily harm. Told to drop weapon, she refused. Shot with taser, and this did not work (we dont know if the taser itself didnt function or if it simply had no effect on her). Still came at cop with knife, she gets shot.

Yes, it had to be a kill shot. If someone is pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger, they better damn well be shooting center mass, for multiple reasons that have all been stated throughout this thread. If I point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you damn well better believe that I am shooting to kill, and by the time we've gotten to that point, I've got a VERY good reason to do so, because it wouldnt happen otherwise.

No, it did not have to be a kill shot. It did not have to be a shot at all. Nice try at justifying yet another of law enforcement's unjustified incidents of lethal deadly force.

That is what happens when they send an unresourceful unimaginative and probably physically unfit cop to deal with a difficult situation. The police department should never send a single solution cop to a situation like that. Give me a baseball bat, a 2x4, an 8 foot length of garden hose, some heavy rope, or any variety of heavy objects that could be thrown at her, and a can of bug spray, and I could defuse that situation in a couple of minutes if the only available solutions involved use of force which, I believe, was not the case there. Yes, I'd cause her some pain but she would fully recover. I'm 62 years old and probably more physically and mentally fit than both those cops combined. There's something seriously wrong with that police department's hiring and training program when judged from what occurred in that scenario.

Originally posted by imalitehaus
Okay, seventeen pages in so far, and I haven't seen anyone bring this up, so I will.

The victim's ex-husband, last I heard, was "refusing comment" on his wife's murder, but was known to be fighting her for custody of their two daughters.

I don't think it is completely unreasonable to wonder if the ex should have his known associates and phone records checked out. Did he know this cop? Could they even have, perhaps, been friends? The entire situation is so extremely bizarre. Something's very wrong.

It wouldn't be the first time a crooked cop got himself some illegal money on the side. Just sayin'.

^this^

Bravo, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit. Washington state in some counties, has some pretty shady dealings where Children and abuse of mothers is concerned...

The entire system is nothing more than Mafia Luciferian CROOKS,

So, yea, I would suspect the very worst, defiled, disgusting, abomination before looking at any other reason...that and the videos (store) I would bet show a very different story.

reply to post by Jefferton


dude she wasn't the scary old possed lady from the movie ;egion. cops are supposed to know how to disable a person with out killing them. my guess this lady had an episode of some sort but why couldn't they dis arm her. i used to work store security and have disarmed and incapacitated many guys way bigger than me so these cops could handle someones grand ma with out a fire arm.

also if you didn't have all these free sample mooches eating up all her samples none of this might have hhappened.