The Black Knight Satellite

Originally posted by swanne

Originally posted by PheonixReborn

Originally posted by swanneWhy would NASA spend time and money photographing a space junk anyway?]

So they don't crash into it on the next orbit?

They can get data on the ground using radars. They run more risk going out there just to take a visual pic (remember MIR?) when they could simply just stay on ground and map its trajectory. The Dark Fence is, after all, now much more advanced I believe.

Still, it doesn't account for the fact this "space junk" you are referring to was up there even in the 1960. There was no space junk then.

edit on 2-6-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

That is one of my big problems, and I am sure one for many others as well.

The orbit problem is probably the most important factor here. To maintain a polar orbit at the altitudes that the space shuttle and ISS operate in, which averages out to 230 miles (370km).... tremendous speed is the only solution, and that means a great deal of expended energy to maintain it due to increased friction with what is left of the atmosphere at that elevation.

What man-made object could have a fuel reserve on board that could maintain this for all of these years? Even an elliptical polar orbit would be difficult to achieve over this time span. Also, the heat, it must get very hot; perhaps glowing hot.

And then, getting pictures like that of it with no motion blur.... very difficult, so that would means that we may not have valid pictures of this Black Night. Again, Anyone have info of the class of camera that took the "Black Night" images that NASA shows on it's website?

Originally posted by AckAckAttack34
reply to post by xDeadcowx

 

"Why is the object in the picture in the OP black? If it was part of the satellite, or any other object put in to orbit by man, wouldn't it be white, or silver/metallic? Black seems like the last color you would want it to be if you want to reflect heat. .....I dont know of any object that is solid black like that... rather ominous "

Because it's one of the US military's projects NASA was checking up on and it's designed to take advantage of stealth technology......

black knight "satellite":





F-117:




See anything that looks familiar in color?

edit on 1-6-2013 by AckAckAttack34 because: To clarify the quote..

Maybe it was travelling at high velocity when it hit the earths atmosphere, friction charcoaled it, leaving it black.

Is it possible to make a 3D model with the using the posted images of Lonesome George alone? I would love to see that. Or does it morph somehow? I've seen videos (which may be faked btw) of UFOs that seem to be in an extra dimension that our three (four if time is considered). It's like if you lived in a 2D world and suddenly saw a 3D object, it would be virtually impossibly to determine its real shape.

-MM

reply to post by SheopleNation

Anyone aware of any credible info out their in regards to the true size of this object?

What

didn't you just post this earlier in the same post

but after researching it for so long I came to the conclusion that it's much too large to be a piece of space junk.

How did you conclude its size if you are asking for any credible info regarding its size?

Originally posted by Gazrok
Throughout the next few years, numerous astronomers publish suspicions of a large mystery satellite circling the globe. By February of 1960, the Defense Department even acknowledges it.

A Mystery Polar Satellite, Believed Russian, Spotted; POLAR SATELLITE DETECTED BY D. S.
By JOHN W. FINNEYSpecial to The New York Times;
February 11, 1960,

WASHINGTON, Feb. 10 -- An unidentified, silent satellite has been discovered circling the earth in a near-polar orbit by United States tracking stations, the Defense Department said today. The identity and origin of the mystery satellite -- which has been dubbed "the dark satellite" are not known despite nearly two weeks of tracking

(You'd need a subscription to the New York Times to read the whole article, unfortunately).

The first Defense Department report said the satellite was about 19 feet long, and weighed possibly 32,000 pounds! The next report withdrew that claim, and replaced it to “as big as an oil truck”. Yet another report stated they had tracked the object by radar for months (then later amended to weeks). The final, “official” report on February 24, 1960 then states it as part of Discoverer V:

"The mysterious object recently discovered in polar orbit around the earth probably is the capsule of the Discoverer V space vehicle launched by the United States last August 13. On the basis of analysis to date, it is believed this vehicle most probably is the ejected recovery capsule of Discoverer V launched into polar orbit in August. The refined analysis of radar returns, the Defense Department said, now indicates the mystery object is about 3 feet in diameter and 2 feet long, the size of the Discoverer V capsule. The capsule separated from its launcher August 14 according to radio telemetry information (received from the carrier rocket)."

However, Discoverer V (launched as part of the Corona project), launched August 13, 1959, and fell to Earth September 28, 1959. The payload was 450 pounds (far, far less than that stated for the mystery satellite in the Defense Department's own reports). It is a simple task to examine pics of the Black Knight satellite and compare it with pics of the Thor-Agena A rocket that launched and a Corona satellite. Can you see any similarities? (not even accounting for the size and weight of the Black Knight, and keeping in mind that the rocket portion fell to Earth).

(Black Knight satellite)

eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

(Thor-Agena A rocket)

(Corona Satellite)

Even if the pic from the Shuttle turns out not to be the Black Knight, we're still left with the capsule not being large enough to fit the Defense Department reports.

Time magazine then runs with the official explanation in their March 7, 1960 edition:

Monday, Mar. 07, 1960
Time Magazine

Three weeks ago, headlines announced that the U.S. had detected a mysterious "dark" satellite wheeling overhead on a regular orbit. There was nervous speculation that it might be a surveillance satellite launched by the Russians, and it brought the uneasy sensation that the U.S. did not know what was going on over its own head. But last week the Department of Defense proudly announced that the satellite had been identified. It was a space derelict, the remains of an Air Force Discoverer satellite that had gone astray. The dark satellite was the first object to demonstrate the effectiveness of the U.S.'s new watch on space. And the three-week time lag in identification was proof that the system still lacks full coordination and that some bugs still have to be ironed out.

First Sighting. The most important component of the space watch went into operation about six months ago with the construction of "Dark Fence," a kind of radar trip wire stretching across the width of the U.S. Designed by the Naval Research Laboratory to keep track of satellites whose radios are silent, it is a notable improvement on other radars, which have difficulty finding a small satellite unless they know where to look. Big, 50-kw. transmitters were established at Gila River, near Phoenix, Ariz, and Jordan Lake, Ala., spraying radio waves upward in the shape of open fans. Some 250 miles on either side, receiving stations pick up signals that bounce off any object passing through the fans. By a kind of triangulation, the operators can make rough estimates of the object's speed, distance and course.

A probe of some sort? Reminds me of Star Trek where they would send a probe to survey an unknown planet.

Originally posted by ProphetZoroaster
Even if the pic from the Shuttle turns out not to be the Black Knight, we're still left with the capsule not being large enough to fit the Defense Department reports.

Just what -- if anything - -would it TAKE for you to drop the 'if' and acknowledge that the photo you showed was really of a short-lived piece of junk released during a spacewalk?

reply to post by JimOberg


It does kind of resemble a chair or something along those lines...
A big chair though, or rocket boosters. It does seem to have that appearance.
I just like the wild explanations cause no one knows for sure what it is.

I am open to it being junk, no matter what anyone says, it is an interesting object.

If the Black Knights 13,000 years old, I'd really like to hear some mythology, or a tall tale.

Like a hunter saying or priest from an age old tribe saying " I starred into the creatures face, seeing only the abyss" or something along the lines. Something that would make a really good camp fire story, when Im roasting marsh mellows, peeing my pants.

Originally posted by Darkblade71
reply to post by JimOberg

 

It does kind of resemble a chair or something along those lines...

A big chair though, or rocket boosters. It does seem to have that appearance.
I just like the wild explanations cause no one knows for sure what it is.

I am open to it being junk, no matter what anyone says, it is an interesting object.

There are some people who know for sure what it is, just nobody hereabouts.

How about, we ask THEM?

reply to post by Darkblade71

It does kind of resemble a chair or something along those lines

This looks like a chair?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00b4c4b9995d.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/36be8f40b1f7.png[/atsimg]

A big chair though, or rocket boosters.

On what do you base your estimate of its size?

Excuse me a mo but ten feet long? weighing in at 16 tons?
SOUNDS LIKE A ROCK FOR MASS

Just read this thread.........

Peaks my interest and makes me think, or even feel tht if this is true.....?

and there is a strange unexplained satelitte ''up there''........ then it can only be ......

Some sort of Beacon or Marker for this planet....

My thoughts


Regards

PDUK

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

What

didn't you just post this earlier in the same post

Yep, sure did.

How did you conclude its size if you are asking for any credible info regarding its size?

Because unless it's right in front of me, or if NASA possibly has provided the true size of this object in the past, I don't know if my conclusions are valid, understand?

It's called making an assumption, while recognizing that my assumption may be in error, which means possibly not being credible. Anyway, I hope that remedies your confusion on the matter. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by Gazrok

(You'd need a subscription to the New York Times to read the whole article, unfortunately).

I dropped $3.95 and bought the article from the New York Times. I skipped my Sunday paper today so why not?

The first Defense Department report said the satellite was about 19 feet long, and weighed possibly 32,000 pounds! The next report withdrew that claim, and replaced it to “as big as an oil truck”.

Can you provide a source for this information? It isn't the New York Times article which seems to be the first public announcement about the object. Where is that "first" report? Where is that "next" report?

What the article says is that the object was "nearly as big as the upper stage on the Discoverer rockets." In other words, smaller than the upper stage.

The "Discoverer rocket" was a 2 stage Thor Agena A vehicle. The second stage being 15.5 feet long and massing 8,350 pounds fueled (1,951 pounds empty). At the time of publication it was thought that the object was the final stage of the Russian Luna 3 mission, launched the previous October.



Just for the hell of it, here is the launch of Discoverer 5.



So...a source for the 32,000 pound claim? And while you're at it, a source for this:

Yet another report stated they had tracked the object by radar for months (then later amended to weeks).

While in reviewing data it was found that the object had first appeared on August 15th (two days after the Discoverer 5 launch). There is no indication it was being "tracked".

Oh. I see that the OP has bailed on his thread. Never mind.

Oh the old BK eh?
The debate always ends up the same,
I know because I'm in it every time.
The debunkers say it's our polar orbiting satellite or the Russians
and that there is proof .
However the time lines DO NOT match up.

From NOAA;
www.ospo.noaa.gov...

From April 1, 1960 to July 2, 1965, ten TIROS satellites were launched. The satellites ensured continuity of data throughout the early years. The first four TIROS satellites had an inclination of 48 degrees and the next four had an inclination of 58 degrees, thus they were not polar-orbiting. The last two TIROS were the first polar-orbiting meteorological satellites. The next series of satellites, named ESSA (for Environmental Science Services Administration) were launched from February 3, 1966 to February 26, 1969. Nine satellites in the ESSA series were launched during this time. These satellites were also polar-orbiting satellites.

The only satellites to reach polar orbit were YEARS after the alleged BK satellite was tracked.
Making it impossible to be ours and highly unlikely to be Russian.
The difference in the time line is what gnaws at me. But most never read that far
and usually give up and say "See it was ours or a Russian satellite."

reply to post by sealing

The only satellites to reach polar orbit were YEARS after the alleged BK satellite was tracked.

You think that weather satellites were the only satellites launched? Do you know what POES designates? Polar Operational Environmental Satellite. The article you cite is about weather satellites.

The last two TIROS were the first polar-orbiting meteorological satellites.

The claim that there were no polar orbiting satellites just isn't true. That was the whole idea behind the Discoverer (Corona) satellites.

Discoverer 2 was a cylindrical satellite designed to gather spacecraft engineering data and to attempt ejection of an instrument package from orbit for recovery on Earth. The spacecraft was launched into a 239 km x 346 km polar orbit by a Thor-Agena A booster. The spacecraft was three-axis stabilized and was commanded from Earth. After 17 orbits, on 14 April 1959, a reentry vehicle was ejected.

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Phage


Can you clarify for simple 'ol me.....

The image in the OP is actually not able to the be Black Knight as it is in a different orbit to what the BK was said to be in?

Thanks ever so much

reply to post by zazzafrazz

The image in the OP is actually not able to the be Black Knight as it is in a different orbit to what the BK was said to be in?

No. The BK is supposed to change orbits at will. So the object in the image could be the BK. Except it isn't. It's debris from an EVA during STS-88.

reply to post by Phage


How does a satellite change orbit at will? again another silly question from someone a 'lil clueless.

reply to post by zazzafrazz

By burning fuel.
In the case of changing from a polar orbit to one with an inclination of 52º (that of STS-88), a lot of fuel.