Trayvon Martin: Cellphone pics of guns and drugs

reply to post by IvanAstikov

My understanding is that the law was designed to avoid the ordeal of a criminal investigation for those who'd been in obviously life-threatening situations

then your understanding is less than complete.

Firstly, he didn't call 911, he called a nen

what in the world is a "nen" ??

reply to post by Spider879

the defense is "self-defense" which has NOTHING to do with SYG.
quit with non-existant argument that only the likes of politicians and schmucks like Sharpton push.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Spider879

 

the defense is "self-defense" which has NOTHING to do with SYG.
quit with non-existant argument that only the likes of politicians and schmucks like Sharpton push.

So the guy in the vid who shot a man invited into this house by his two timing wife was defending who or what exactly.

Originally posted by Spider879

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Spider879

 

the defense is "self-defense" which has NOTHING to do with SYG.
quit with non-existant argument that only the likes of politicians and schmucks like Sharpton push.

So the guy in the vid who shot a man invited into this house by his two timing wife was defending who or what exactly.

didn't see any video and can't on this machine, anyway.
what does that story have to do with this one ??

SYG is for situations for which it applies.
(it also applies when defending the life of others, not just self - perhaps that was the reasoning ?)

this situation has nothing to do with SYG, so, why are you trying so hard to derail the topic ?

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by Spider879

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Spider879

 

the defense is "self-defense" which has NOTHING to do with SYG.
quit with non-existant argument that only the likes of politicians and schmucks like Sharpton push.

So the guy in the vid who shot a man invited into this house by his two timing wife was defending who or what exactly.

didn't see any video and can't on this machine, anyway.
what does that story have to do with this one ??

SYG is for situations for which it applies.
(it also applies when defending the life of others, not just self - perhaps that was the reasoning ?)

this situation has nothing to do with SYG, so, why are you trying so hard to derail the topic ?

Because that's the basis of GZ defense,he could carry out such action because he was standing his ground which the law allows for in Florida,in another state he would have been arrested and charged for at-least manslaughter if not murder,lets say at the very best they got into a fight whether TM was getting the better of him is immaterial one guy pulls out a gun and shot the other guy dead is grounds for arrest,and this is not the only time this happen btw,this gained prominence because of the profiling which led to the race issue,we are dealing with the whole thing of who is at fault and not looking at the law itself is just as responsible for killing TM as is GZ.

As trial approaches for the man who generated national controversy over Stand Your Ground laws when he shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on a Florida street, a jury has acquitted another man under Florida’s controversial law, after he shot dead a man he caught having sex with his wife. Ralph Wald, a 70-year-old Vietnam veteran, walked into his home around midnight, and less than ten seconds later, fired three shots at Walter Conley, according to ABC News. He told the jury he thought Conley was raping his wife when he saw them having intercourse in his home. But during a 911 call, when the dispatcher asked Wald if the man was dead, Wald responded, “I hope so!” and refused to help the man. He asked for medical help for his wife, Johnna Flores, since he thought he accidentally shot her also. He said he didn’t recognize Conley even though he had been roommates with his wife prior to her relationship with Wald, lived next door to Wald, had tattoos of Flores on his neck and back, and worked for Flores at her fencing company.
thinkprogress.org...

klik the link for the full story on why GZ could walk ,so this is no attempt to derail this thread.

reply to post by Spider879

you are mistaken.
SYG is what Sharpton and the msm promotes.
(or political hacks like thinkprogress.org)

it has NOTHING to do with GZs defense or the actions taken that fateful evening.

ppl keep trying to include it, blame it or simply dismiss the obvious because they don't 'like' it ... truth is, it isn't even relative to this incident.

nor is it the 'defense' being argued.

i'm not commenting on what may have happened in any other state, i know what's happening in my state (FL) and how everyone else is trying to make it something it isn't.

don't fall for it.
SYG has it's place but it isn't in this case.

btw, i've exercised SYG myself, however, i didn't take a life doing it but, i did eliminate the threat and that's what counts.

yes, i was cuffed, questioned and released without any further legal action taken.
If SYG truly applied here, GZ would have walked already. (no doubt in my mind)

and NO, the law is not responsible for the death of anyone, even TM.
actions taken or not are the responsibility of those involved, not the law.

imho, thinkprogress is not a reliable source, sorry.
a political think-tank has no place in this situation AT ALL.

reply to post by Spider879

hmmm, i clicked your link, read the story and surmise that you don't comprehend what you read very well.

SYG permits protection of others, like his wife.
SYG provides for action, not assessment.
(imho, 10 minutes is plenty of time to assess the situation. ppl have died in a lot less than 10 minutes)

as a repeated rape victim, my first thought was, what the he!! was he waiting for, an invitation ?

as for the rest, it doesn't apply to the TM, GZ event, at all.
fyi, violent crime in FL has been steadily decreasing, especially since SYG was implemented.
the rest is political rhetoric, nothing more.

can we get back on topic now ??

reply to post by Spider879


A little bit off topic but you'll be surprised at the responses in the thread about that case where the man shot his wife's cheater. (most of the responses are siding with the shooter)

Another ridiculous case happened in Texas, where a man shot a hooker who drove off with his money, paralyzing her and she died 6 months later. He was not charged because of the law.

....wow?

reply to post by peashooter

ok i gotta ask (and this will probably get labled OT but) did the hooker "drive-off" in his car along with his money ?

since i don't know the particulars, i offer no opinion but i'm not buying what you said as a 'full' story of the events.

reply to post by Honor93

it has NOTHING to do with GZs defense or the actions taken that fateful evening. ppl keep trying to include it, blame it or simply dismiss the obvious because they don't 'like' it ... truth is, it isn't even relative to this incident. nor is it the 'defense' being argued. i'm not commenting on what may have happened in any other state, i know what's happening in my state (FL) and how everyone else is trying to make it something it isn't. don't fall for it. SYG has it's place but it isn't in this case. btw, i've exercised SYG myself, however, i didn't take a life doing it but, i did eliminate the threat and that's what counts. yes, i was cuffed, questioned and released without any further legal action taken. If SYG truly applied here, GZ would have walked already. (no doubt in my mind)

But that exactly what happened in GZ's case he was taken into custody questioned and released, but in his case he actually killed a person ,it was pressure from the general public that finally landed GZ in jail and court or he would be walking around today as to your own case I don't know whether the person or persons you defended yourself against was armed tried to rob or harm you or what,if that's the case then any reasonable person would be on your side. but you don't get into a fight and kill someone who was unarmed without being charged not in most states anyway.

reply to post by Spider879

yes, i'm familiar with how 'peer pressure' works and this case is a classic example of it.

are you suggesting 'mob rule' should apply ?

my incident involved a home INVASION which isn't what this case is about either.
and, i shot the invader from behind, once they were already inside the residence.

each case has its own particulars and apparently, in GZs case, there was a big enough cry of 'foul' that a closer look was deemed necessary. (with which i happen to agree, btw)

however, prosecuting this case isn't the job of 'joe public', is it ?
regardless, ppl want answers and i tend to agree with them.
the sad thing is, too many ppl already think they have ALL the answers and i'm one of the first to admit, that just ain't so.

a fight only happens when 2 or more ppl are involved.
it isn't for any of us to say how that fight began, but, we do know it happened, don't we ?

and actually, if anyone assaults me, it will be their death wish and that's how it should be.

i am not obligated to retreat, fight back or engage them in their endeavor to harm me.
i cannot believe anyone thinks otherwise.

also, i consider the aspirations of those involved in prosecuting this case.
it befuddles me to think that others don't.

reply to post by Honor93


Not sure about the full details, I saw it on a show called TYT on youtube where they discuss current events.

They said she told the customer she was going to pay her driver the money first ($150), but she drove off with the driver.

The law which protected him was "A person is justified in using deadly force against another, to prevent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, aggravated robbery, or theft during the night time from escaping with the property"

Here's the video, I really enjoy watching their show as they bring up pretty good points during discussion.

reply to post by peashooter

thanks, but this computer doesn't do audio or video, sorry.

and, thanks for the added details.
apparently, the TX law is different than the FL law being blamed for this incident. (SYG)

from what you added, it sounds like the shooter had every reason, justifiably, to take the actions he did.

given what you said, i really don't see a problem with the outcome, either.
if you do the crime, you have to accept the risks that go with it.
^^^^^^^^^^^
which is something both GZ and TMs family have to accept, eventually.

ps ... fyi, i don't quite follow the "night time" distinction or the point of it but it is what it is.
if Texans don't agree with their law, then they need to modify it.

as for the ongoing case against GZ, i am not on the jury so i defer to their ability to do the job of which they'll be entrusted. may the truth be revealed and their judgement be fair.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

My understanding is that the law was designed to avoid the ordeal of a criminal investigation for those who'd been in obviously life-threatening situations

then your understanding is less than complete.

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to fill in the gaps then?

Originally posted by Honor93

Firstly, he didn't call 911, he called a nen

what in the world is a "nen" ??

A non-emergency number. There, I've enlightened you - it's your turn now. Tell me all about the reasoning behind the SYG law.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

i'm confused.
since when is 911 a "nen" (non-emergency number) ??

and, since the 911 'manipulated' recordings were first publicized, when did it change to "nen" ??

as for SYG, in another thread about it, sure, i'd be happy to enlighten you but, this isn't the thread for such a derailing discussion.

it wasn't designed to avoid a criminal investigation, period.
every case where SYG was exercised (that i've read about or been directly involved in) absolutely included a criminal investigation.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

i'm confused.
since when is 911 a "nen" (non-emergency number) ??

and, since the 911 'manipulated' recordings were first publicized, when did it change to "nen" ??

He didn't call 911 at any time. He called a non-emergency number. I thought that was common knowledge?

Originally posted by Honor93
as for SYG, in another thread about it, sure, i'd be happy to enlighten you but, this isn't the thread for such a derailing discussion.

it wasn't designed to avoid a criminal investigation, period.
every case where SYG was exercised (that i've read about or been directly involved in) absolutely included a criminal investigation.

Wasn't there a syg scenario prior to the fight beginning, if you are going to believe Zimmerman's story? When TM first approached him at the T, Zimmerman had every opportunity to begin retreating towards the safety of his vehicle or run to a nearby home, but syg gave him the right to stand there and see how events panned out. And if you believe DD's account of Zimmerman approaching TM, TM had every right to stand his ground and he didn't have to wait for Zimmerman to actually hit him first if he truly felt he was in danger.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

no and no.
not common knowledge as this is the 1st i've EVER heard such a thing.
all i've read about are the 911 recordings that were purposely manipulated by msm.

as for the preceding scenario, couldn't say as i wasn't there.
were you ?

anyone who felt they were in danger, should have called the emergency assistance number known to all -- 911.
clearly, TM didn't even bother.

reply to post by Honor93

15 mth since it happened and you still aren't aware that Zimmerman made a call to the non-emergency service before he went on to shoot TM? Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the case a bit more?

Originally posted by peashooter
reply to post by Spider879

 

A little bit off topic but you'll be surprised at the responses in the thread about that case where the man shot his wife's cheater. (most of the responses are siding with the shooter)

Another ridiculous case happened in Texas, where a man shot a hooker who drove off with his money, paralyzing her and she died 6 months later. He was not charged because of the law.

....wow?

What I suspect with laws such as the above is many used it to settle scores or to justify their paranoia and hate of the other all they have to do is make sure their opponents are dead claimed they were in fear of their lives and have no witnesses to say other wise..dead men tells no tale.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Honor93

 

15 mth since it happened and you still aren't aware that Zimmerman made a call to the non-emergency service before he went on to shoot TM? Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the case a bit more?

nope, i'm not an investigator or potential juror and contrary to those of you obssessed with this incident, i've been busy living life.

yes, i've read some of the releases along the way but nothing about a "nen" until you mentioned it.
for example:
sentinel
link
link 2
NBC sued
NBC apologizes
DemUnderground
policymic
daily mail

perhaps, once the msm was exposed for their manipulative activities, i lost interest in anything they reported and found myself awaiting the "facts" to come out as they've trickled ever since.

unfortunately, i cannot view any of the videos that have since surfaced but i have reviewed some of the other written reports that have become available, but, nothing i've reviewed thus far has altered my original opinion of this unfortunate incident.

as stated previously, i hope the truth is revealed and the jury verdict is fair but even in that, i have my doubts.

there has been far tooooo much political and peer pressure from all sides to maintain my interest in the partial stories being released.

besides, what difference does the # he called make in your mind ?
here, when you call the published 'nen' after hours, you are referred to 911 anyway.
so, what difference does the number he dialed really make ??