Trayvon Martin: Cellphone pics of guns and drugs

reply to post by FlyersFan


From the linked article:-

A close friend of Zimmerman, Joe Oliver, says Zimmerman is 5'8" and currently only weighs 170 pounds. The police estimated Trayvon at 6'0" and 160 pounds when they wrote the police report the night he was shot.

Note the bolded words. Hardly scientific fact we are dealing with, is it? And George still has the weight advantage. There's a reason why - even at amateur level - combat sports have weight divisions.

Seriously?!?!?! No one knows any factual information about Mr Zimmerman's or Mr Martin's fitness level, past fighting history/outcome or if either experienced an adrenaline rush on the night of 26 February 2012; yet this thread has devolved into lobotomy patients acting as if they are odds-makers for a boxing match...

None of us understand the facts of the night of 26 February 2012 and no substantial evidence has been presented, but that is not stopping so many seemingly intelligent people to make unintelligent, uninformed concrete judgments about guilt or innocence...

When both sides of the "discussion" are accepting the Examiner.com as a source of facts, it is obvious that both lobotomized sides of the "discussion" are so desperate to "win" the argument they'll cite anything... I guess the Weekly Reader or Highlights magazine didn't have the "facts" you were looking for so the Examiner.com worked...

If the composition of the jury is reflects the lobotomized arguments by both sides in this thread, I think we can all agree that the facts will take a backseat to emotion...

Make no mistake if TM was a white kid, GZ would have been off the hook by now.

Originally posted by hamburgerler
TM committed no crime, and Zimmerman got trigger happy..

We don't know that. We don't know what crime happened.
Someone jumped someone else.
Either Martin jumped Zimmerman - which would make Martin the perp ..
or Zimmerman jumped Martin - which would make Zimmerman the perp.

We don't know and wont know until the information comes out in the trial.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Dude ... Martins body was that of a grown man. Six feet tall. Within 10 pounds of Zimmerman.
Zimmerman was four inches shorter.
The point is ... Martin wasn't some lil' skinny 12 year old kid.
His body was fully grown and functioning on a mature male level.

Prediction: GZ convicte of manslaughter not murder

reply to post by Paschar0


I wouldn't want him or his kind around me or my family either, but that's only because they're black. I don't think he's a murderer/thug though.

In any case, that was never really the issue, was it? Zimmerman followed some kid who was minding his own business as part of a neighborhood watch. He followed him out of the neighborhood, and then confronted him...what happened after that is the subject of the trial. Whether or not the kid was a thug is irrelevant to the case, except as character testimony and frankly I think most members of the jury will have made up their minds already, much as we have XD

reply to post by NickDC202

If you was paying attention you'd have seen that I was contesting the "facts" provided in the link. I said that even IF they were accurate, they still left Zimmerman 10lb heavier than TM and in any fight between people of similar ability, even between professionals, being heavier is seen as an advantage.

As regards to not knowing what happened, I'll say what I've said before - if you're not interested in discussing the case before the trial is over, nobody is compelling you to enter these threads, so if you don't like it, don't get involved.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

Dude ... Martins body was that of a grown man. Six feet tall. Within 10 pounds of Zimmerman.
Zimmerman was four inches shorter.
The point is ... Martin wasn't some lil' skinny 12 year old kid.
His body was fully grown and functioning on a mature male level.

As I've never argued from the perspective of TM being a frail skinny 12 yr old, your point is pointless. Trayvon may have been in an adult's body, but he wasn't up against a scrawny 80lb weakling. He was tackling a slightly shorter, much more compact man 10 years his senior... a man confident enough in his own physical abilities to offer his services as party security for a wage. Yet George wants us to believe that he was taken by surprise and was getting his ass handed to him, until his attacker finally reminded him he had a gun, and then his senses suddenly became razor sharp and everything went right for him. I'm sorry, but that's only how fights happen in the movies.

Originally posted by NickDC202
Seriously?!?!?! No one knows any factual information about Mr Zimmerman's or Mr Martin's fitness level, past fighting history/outcome or if either experienced an adrenaline rush on the night of 26 February 2012; yet this thread has devolved into lobotomy patients acting as if they are odds-makers for a boxing match...

Actually, Trayvon Martin was so happy with himself and his ability to kick the living crap out of other people, he is in more than one video showing just that thing happening. I'm not sure how I'd describe the vids I saw early on. 'Fight Club' without the script? Whatever the case....the fact he was a fighter and fit for the role is something he established by his own actions, in his own way and on tape for all time. That part isn't something I've ever heard anyone seriously challenge.

As someone else pointed out, this was no child...regardless of age. And heck, aren't we being told daily that teenagers are the equal of adults in every way, anyway? Okay...so let them be, in all ways, not just the ones that are fun and enjoyable to them.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by NickDC202
Seriously?!?!?! No one knows any factual information about Mr Zimmerman's or Mr Martin's fitness level, past fighting history/outcome or if either experienced an adrenaline rush on the night of 26 February 2012; yet this thread has devolved into lobotomy patients acting as if they are odds-makers for a boxing match...

Actually, Trayvon Martin was so happy with himself and his ability to kick the living crap out of other people, he is in more than one video showing just that thing happening. I'm not sure how I'd describe the vids I saw early on. 'Fight Club' without the script? Whatever the case....the fact he was a fighter and fit for the role is something he established by his own actions, in his own way and on tape for all time. That part isn't something I've ever heard anyone seriously challenge.

How many of his recorded fights have you seen? Do you have a link to this documentation of his extensive fighting career?

ps. Is this the kind of evidence of TM's fighting prowess we are dealing with?

George Zimmerman's attorneys today released a statement, backtracking on what they say a video of a fight found on Trayvon Martin's cell phone shows. In court Tuesday, defense attorney Mark O'Mara described it as Trayvon video-recording two friends beating up a homeless man. But in today's statement, O'Mara apologized and said it really shows Trayvon video-recording two homeless men fighting over a bicycle.

www.orlandosentinel.com...

reply to post by IvanAstikov


If you can't run a google, I'm not in the frame of mind this morning to have a long discourse with the Martin fan club. The major media, no less, was running the home made videos of Martin and his school chums having their little fight club. Sorry if you missed it...but Google is your friend.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

If you can't run a google, I'm not in the frame of mind this morning to have a long discourse with the Martin fan club. The major media, no less, was running the home made videos of Martin and his school chums having their little fight club. Sorry if you missed it...but Google is your friend.

I've tried that google thing you recommended and all I can find is a video where it appears he is involved with refereeing a mutually agreed upon fight. If you are claiming there are videos of him out there actually fighting, I think it's you that needs to back it up with some evidence.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Actually, Trayvon Martin was so happy with himself and his ability to kick the living crap out of other people, he is in more than one video showing just that thing happening. I'm not sure how I'd describe the vids I saw early on. 'Fight Club' without the script? Whatever the case....the fact he was a fighter and fit for the role is something he established by his own actions, in his own way and on tape for all time. That part isn't something I've ever heard anyone seriously challenge.

As someone else pointed out, this was no child...regardless of age. And heck, aren't we being told daily that teenagers are the equal of adults in every way, anyway? Okay...so let them be, in all ways, not just the ones that are fun and enjoyable to them.

Thanks for your thoughtful post; I appreciate it.

I completely agree that anyone with the sense of sight that watches the unedited surveillance footage of the trip to 7-11 can clearly observe that he was not a child. I've mentioned before that one of the biggest hurdles that the defense needs to clear is the wide-held perception that the victim is the sweet, smiling, All-American boy whose photo (of him at 12 years old) has been instilled in mindsets for months. The Sharpton's team was quite brilliant in their strategy to refuse for weeks to release other photos and attack media outlets who didn't use the official photo. Countless studies demonstrate that the majority tend to remember the initial memes as being what occurred, even if those memes turn out to be inaccurate. Therefore just to get on the same footing as the prosecution the defense needs to alter the meme in the minds of the jurors.

I'd be interested to learn more about the videos you mentioned; I read an Orlando Sentinel article about a video released by the defense which was filmed by the victim, who can be heard laughing on the video, and shows his alleged friends beating a homeless gentleman. I have never heard of footage showing the victim assaulting another or being assaulted by another.

One thing is clear, every decision one makes no matter how large or how small — one choice can lead to a set of consequences that typically are quite different than if you had chosen an alternative.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
As I've never argued from the perspective of TM being a frail skinny 12 yr old, your point is pointless.

I was making a good point because, something like 3 or 4 pages back (could have been more) someone came on here and said that Zimmerman jumped a scrawny 12 or 14 year old kid. (Can't remember which was said).

The point is ... physically they were pretty evenly matched.
Martin was 4 inches taller.
Zimmerman was 10 pounds heavier.

This wasn't an adult beating on a little kid like the media wanted everyone to think.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The point is ... physically they were pretty evenly matched.
Martin was 4 inches taller.
Zimmerman was 10 pounds heavier.

Well, at least now you're not trying to make out like Trayvon was some big, hulking jock-type who was picking on the little fat guy.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
This wasn't an adult beating on a little kid like the media wanted everyone to think.

I'm not interested in what the media wanted everyone to think - I make up my own mind on what's important and what is just baseless speculation.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The point is ... physically they were pretty evenly matched.
Martin was 4 inches taller.
Zimmerman was 10 pounds heavier.

Well, at least now you're not trying to make out like Trayvon was some big, hulking jock-type who was picking on the little fat guy.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
This wasn't an adult beating on a little kid like the media wanted everyone to think.

I'm not interested in what the media wanted everyone to think - I make up my own mind on what's important and what is just baseless speculation.

Interestng. Which aspects do you consider fact?

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Interestng. Which aspects do you consider fact?

That's way too vague a question. Ask me something more specific.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Interestng. Which aspects do you consider fact?

That's way too vague a question. Ask me something more specific.

Let me rephrase then: please list the elements of the situation you regard as pure fact and not specualtion.