Trayvon Martin: Cellphone pics of guns and drugs

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by jrod

 

Nope, it's all about the shooting of a teen minding his own business and how Florida's gun laws encourage people to shoot first, answer questions later, and if you have friends down at the police station and there is no video recording of the event, you can just claim witnesses are mistaken and get away with murder.

None of that is true. The stand your gun laws and castle doctrine laws simply state that you are not obligated to retreat when confronted with a threat and can use deadly force to defend yourself. You still can and will be charged if the evidence suggests you were not in immediate danger of life and limb.

You misrepresent the law.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
I still want to know why TM didnt just run home after he took off past GZ in the vehicle.

I've thought about this and if it comes to choosing between him luring Zimmerman towards the dark, scary passageway so he could beat him up and him deciding he couldn't outrun a vehicle and instead choosing to stand his ground and see what happened next, I'm going with the latter choice.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
Or, why didnt he call the police

If I had a dollar for everytime I'd read a gun afficionado declare that by the time the cops get there you could be dead and you have to rely on yourself, I'd be a wealthy man. Trayvon didn't even have a gun - he had a can of juice, a bag of Skittles and his fists to fall back on when the police were a phone call away.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I'm from Florida and I can tell you the Stand your Ground law is a great law. We the citizen can defend ourselves without fear of legal action.

Zimmerman called 911, he had good rapport with the police(much different than being their friends). When the incident happened there was no reason for the police to not believe Zimmerman's story. He was concerned about his neighborhood and trying to do something to prevent break-ins.

I see this case being used as propaganda for several reasons, one being the gun control agenda. They(Obama, Holder and company) do not like Florida's Stand your Ground law. When the story broke they jumped all over this and is why Zimmerman is standing trial. If you don't think the propaganda machine was at work here, then why do you think the initial pictures of T. Martin were of an innocent looking 14 year old, not a tattooed 17 year old with a gold grill?

Life is not fair and tragedies happen all the time. Innocent people die, bad people get away with murder everyday. If you can't accept this reality, good luck coping with the real world.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


You seem to believe that Zimmerman left his car with the intent to shoot Martin. From what I understand he wouldn't to confront Martin and ask what he was doing in the neighborhood. Martin attempting to evade Zimmerman(someone most who lived in the neighborhood knew) is extremely suspicious behavior for an innocent person.

Trying to debate on this thread is pointless.

Zimmerman will walk.

Originally posted by jrod
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

I'm from Florida and I can tell you the Stand your Ground law is a great law. We the citizen can defend ourselves without fear of legal action.

My understanding is that the law was designed to avoid the ordeal of a criminal investigation for those who'd been in obviously life-threatening situations, not so that investigations could be kept to a minimum when the officers on scene think they have a slam-dunk case.

Originally posted by jrod
Zimmerman called 911, he had good rapport with the police(much different than being their friends). When the incident happened there was no reason for the police to not believe Zimmerman's story. He was concerned about his neighborhood and trying to do something to prevent break-ins.

Firstly, he didn't call 911, he called a nen, so whatever suspicions he may have had, he obviously didn't deem them important enough to call 911 immediately. As for having no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman's story, until they knew exactly who the dead person was, I'd say that was plenty enough reason to remain at least slightly suspicious.

reply to post by jrod

If you'd followed the story properly you'd know that TM only tried to evade Zimmerman after Zimmerman began slowly driving behind him on his way towards the T-junction. At the beginning, TM made no attempt to evade Zimmerman's attention and rather than avoiding him, continued to walk right past where Z was parked at the clubhouse. Yes, George, after spotting a suspicious person, claims he then drove past him and parked out of sight round a bend and phoned the nen service. If Trayvon had had a guilty conscience, and he knew his way around the neighbourhood, he'd have just crossed the road where Z says he first spotted TM, took a walk around the lake, and come out near enough facing his father's home, all while George was starting his conversation with the nen dispatcher. But he didn't, because he had no reason to avoid Zimmerman at that point.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Pure speculation on your part.

Please don't incite a riot when Zimmerman walks.

Originally posted by jrod
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

Pure speculation on your part.

Please don't incite a riot when Zimmerman walks.

It's not pure speculation, it's the logical deduction to make if you are going to accept the scenario that George has laid out for us. You do believe George when he says he first saw TM coming from the side of Frank Taafe's house and that he then continued around to the clubhouse, don't you?

reply to post by IvanAstikov


The problem with your assumptions is that he had a head start of at least a minute, and knew where he was going. If he would have just gone home, none of this would have mattered. Unfortunately for him, he had the same attitude that alot of teenagers have today. They feel that they are above all and have the right to do whatever they please. He chose to accost someone because they had the audacity to treat him with suspicion. He confronted, he lost. The thing is, Zimmerman lost too. He has to live with the fact that he had to take someone's life to live himself. Trust me, that is not something many people enjoy living with.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

The problem with your assumptions is that he had a head start of at least a minute,

How have you come to this determination? Zimmerman says he got out of his vehicle immediately after seeing TM go out of view behind the houses at the T-junctiion. While "running straight home as if your life depended on it because you weren't old enough to legally be carrying a gun yet" might seem like the obvious thing to do while sat at home tapping away at your keyboard, on the night, when TM didn't know if Zimmerman was phoning an accomplice to head him off, standing his ground/hiding and trying to make his way to safety by stealth rather than speed, might have seemed a more attractive option.

As for the defence's attempt to paint TM as a fighting, guns and drug obsessed thug who took on an out of his depth Zimmerman and totally manhandled him, it's interesting that of the 2, it was Zimmerman who was actually enrolled in a fighting academy at some point in his life.

www.orlandosentinel.com...

The new evidence list includes information that Zimmerman trained at a Longwood gym that specializes in boxing and kickboxing. A webpage for the business, Kokopelli's Gym, describes it as "the most complete fight gym in the world."

If he paid them any money, I hope he has demanded a refund, because it appears that he didn't learn a thing. Joking aside, it would be interesting to hear how promising a student Zimmerman was, whether he ever took part in full contact training, and whether he could take a hit and continue defending himself. Knowing he was a natural when it came to grappling and ground techniques should make anybody doubt his claims regarding TM mounting him and beating him for over 30 seconds.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The point is ... physically they were pretty evenly matched.
Martin was 4 inches taller.
Zimmerman was 10 pounds heavier.

Well, at least now you're not trying to make out like Trayvon was some big, hulking jock-type who was picking on the little fat guy..

what do you mean 'at least now'??? I never said anything like that. :shk:

Originally posted by Baddguy
Why isnt anybody talking about GZ being a crazed woman/cop beater and a pathological liar who thinks hes a cop?

If you want to bring that speculation in ... then the speculation about Martin is relevant as well.
Same/same. What is good for one is good for the other.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Nope, it's all about the shooting of a teen minding his own business and how Florida's gun laws encourage people to shoot first, answer questions later, and if you have friends down at the police station and there is no video recording of the event, you can just claim witnesses are mistaken and get away with murder.

Nope, it's all about finding out who jumped who .. did Martin jump Zimmerman or did Zimmerman jump Martin. That's it. The rest of your rhetoric is worthy of a left wing Hollywood movie fantasy but has no relevance in this situation.

Forget the racial angle for a second This goes to wards the stand your ground law ,this law give means for murder without repercussions,this is just crazy.
thinkprogress.org...

As trial approaches for the man who generated national controversy over Stand Your Ground laws when he shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on a Florida street, a jury has acquitted another man under Florida’s controversial law, after he shot dead a man he caught having sex with his wife.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


And why would TM assume that this guy had an accomplice? What were these two "strange" guys going to do to a nearly 6ft 160lb black "almost"man. Geez, your argument doesn't stand up. The fact is, he could have gone home. He chose to try to beat up a smaller guy. He sucker punched GZ, got on top of him and started beating the hell out of him, and then lost his life. Maybe he shouldn't have glorified the "thug" life of picking on people smaller than he was. I guarantee that if it had been someone bigger than TM, he would have gone straight home, knowing that he was going to get his ass handed to him in a fight.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

Originally posted by SammyB0476
And why would TM assume that this guy had an accomplice?

He'd been eyeballed by some guy in a car, the moment he entered the neighbourhood. Said guy is parked around corner in car as Trayvon walks by and now he's on the phone. As Trayvon walks past again, said guy comes driving slowly behind Trayvon. If Trayvon knows he hasn't been doing anything criminal, he's bound to be suspicious of this guy's interest in him and begin wondering who he was phoning.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
What were these two "strange" guys going to do to a nearly 6ft 160lb black "almost"man.

Rob him, maybe? Beat the stranger up because he was on their turf? Let's not try and pretend there was anything imposing or threatening about TM's mere appearance, unless you're the timid type who faints at the sight of a black man.

Originally posted by SammyB0476

Geez, your argument doesn't stand up. The fact is, he could have gone home.

And, George could have stayed in his vehicle and going home would have been the eventual outcome of Trayvon's adventure.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
He chose to try to beat up a smaller guy.

Allegedly, he didn't TRY, he was succeeeding. See, you're that biased against Trayvon, you can't even state that he was beating George up.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
He sucker punched GZ,

Well, technically he didn't, if you are to believe George. My definition of a sucker punch is, a blow that is struck when the receiver is least expecting it. You either hit them when they aren't looking and can't possibly defend the shot, or the puncher lulls the recipient into a false sense of ease, gets close enough to strike, and then does so. You've not been sucker punched if you are facing your eventual attacker, who is still way beyond arm's reach and he has just told you "You got a problem now, homie!"

Originally posted by SammyB0476
got on top of him and started beating the hell out of him, and then lost his life.

Well, you got the last bit right. If the first part was true, Z would have had far more than a bust nose and a few scratches on his head.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
Maybe he shouldn't have glorified the "thug" life of picking on people smaller than he was.

I'm sure "Thug Life" has some pretty messed up rules, but I doubt "Pick on the little guy!" is one of them.

Originally posted by SammyB0476
I guarantee that if it had been someone bigger than TM, he would have gone straight home, knowing that he was going to get his ass handed to him in a fight.

Guarantee? You seem to be even surer of Trayvon's mentality than I am.

edit on 7-6-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-6-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)

This is ridiculous. Lets take all the BS distraction out of equation. It is my belief that race had little to nothing to do with this tragedy. GZ is a loose canon with disillusion of grandeur. I honestly believe if it would have been an undesirable white guy GZ would have been making white trash comments to the 911 operator. Either mans past don't make a bit a difference in my opinion. Its great for the attorneys to use to distract but really isn't serving justice in any way.

The facts. TM was walking in a gated community dressed like a "thug" or "gansta". Thats all we can "fault" him with at this point. GZ acting as a member of the neighborhood watch for his neighborhood began to follow TM based solely on his appearance. GZ at some point before the confrontation called 911 and was "advised" to stop his pursuit. There seems to be some gray area here as to GZ motives for returning to his vehicle. It seems that most can agree that he went to his vehicle and then was either lured or followed TM to the scene of the crime.This is where the wheels come off for GZ as far as I am concerned.

Some of you have criticized TM for calling his girl and not the cops. Why didn't GZ call the cops when apparently TM had turned the tables on him. From all the stories posted here and all over the news most agree that GZ returned to his vehicle got in it and got back out again. Why didn't he call the cops at this point and report that TM was following him now. Why did he get back out again? Why didn't he just drive away?

You cant get around the fact that he ignored a 911 operator.
You cant get around the fact that TM was doing no wrong.
You cant get around the fact the GZ belonged to a neighborhood watch program that didn't exist or if it did he wasn't a member of it..
You cant get around the fact that neighborhood watch job is to observe and to report not follow and confront. This goes for security guards as well. There is a reason why we call the police to handle these things. They are trained for it.

It seems painfully obvious to me that what we have here is a man craving the lime light. GZ wanted to play hero and got caught up in his little fantasy. Unfortunately for GZ his fantasy turned into a nightmare. He ended killing someone that he more than likely never meant to cause any real harm to. GZ should be punished but the punishment should fit the crime.

GZ needs to realize and learn that the movies and reality usually are 2 very different things.

Double post. Sorry.

Originally posted by Baddguy
reply to post by Honor93

 

...you dont have to be convicted for somthing to be true....he is in fact..a Woman beater, a Cop beater, a pathological liar and a wanna be cop...lets talk about it

and he was into to fondling family members...all relevant stuff here people

edit on 5-6-2013 by Baddguy because: i forgot to add..

actually, in this state, you DO have to be convicted of it for it to be entered into the 'record' as so many are trying to do.

no conviction, it is irrelevant or he wouldn't have been armed lawfully, period.

am i harping on the dope in TMs system at the time of his death ?
am i harping on TMs penchant for 'fighting' ... even filming it rather stopping it ?
these too are Facts, proven facts even, but the fanboys and prosecuting attorneys sure are trying to stifle the truth, aren't they ?

sooooo, let's talk about it, shall we ?

and for the love of all that is logical ... why did TM call his girlfriend rather the police if he was soooooo scared of the dude following him ??

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by jrod

 

Nope, it's all about the shooting of a teen minding his own business and how Florida's gun laws encourage people to shoot first, answer questions later, and if you have friends down at the police station and there is no video recording of the event, you can just claim witnesses are mistaken and get away with murder.

hmmm, any resemblance to that Dorner case ??
video everywhere but yet, none was available of the incident for which he was brutally terminated.
i suppose he didn't have many friends amongst his peers, did he ?

reply to post by IvanAstikov

when the police were a phone call away.

yeah so, one has to wonder what did TM think his girlfriend was gonna do to help him be 'safe' ???

if the cops were only a phone call away, why didn't he at least try to get their help ?
Zimm did.