Trayvon Martin: Cellphone pics of guns and drugs

reply to post by KaginD


But TM's fear was justified right away as he was being stalked by an unidentified man. There was no reason for GM to be stalking him however.

reply to post by KaginD

Probably the best post I've seen at ATS on this subject.
A series of unfortunate decisions ends in accidental death.
And we probably won't know the true motives of either Martin or Zimmerman for that day.

Originally posted by Tribunal
But TM's fear was justified right away as he was being stalked by an unidentified man. There was no reason for GM to be stalking him however.

Fear of being stalked is NOT reason to attack the stalker. That's illegal.
And Zimmerman had reason to follow Martin. Neighborhood watch .....

Originally posted by peashooter
This is ridiculous. Many teens like pictures of guns because they think it's "cool", how many movies today don't have guns in them? As for marijuana, many people have it as their desktop picture, if not posters on their dorms. Bob marley, Snoop Dogg, Jimmie Hendrix, and many other musicians have a huge influence on what kids like.

Using pictures on his phone as evidence for his own death is sick, especially when he was unarmed and did not have any weed on him.

They shot him, looked through his phone and now imply: hey look, we killed him but he actually had pictures of guns on his phone. How is this even a rational thing to bring to the court?

I'll admit it I also have pictures of weed and guns on my phone, without knowing me personally you would have never even guessed.

You're correct, that the pictures in and of themselves do not mean anything... But that's not the reason prosecution tried so hard to keep that out of the courtroom, now, is it?

No, the reason the prosecution tried so hard to keep this information tightly under wraps is that, when you take that and combine it with the other evidence: jumped a wall into a gated community: tresspassing, broke zimmermans nose and straddled him on the ground (grass stains on gz back and tm knees), it begins to paint a picture of the boys character...

And you are dead wrong about one thing... Not all kids think drugs and guns are "cool". Actually a lot of them think that drugs are for losers, and guns for criminals and soldiers. Most video games are depicting a soldier, carrying out an act of justice against evil doers. And I am pretty sure if the defense is bringing it up, I'm guessing it will soon come out that these were not some random photos he saved off the internet. I think that if the defense believes its worth bringing up, then there's a good chance that he, tm, actually took these photos himself, meaning he was actually HANGING AROUND drugs and guns. Otherwise, if these pics were some screen saver type pics he found online, then I would agree with you, it has a minimal impact as a judgement against his character.

But hey, none of that matters because this is a case of self defense. How are they going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that gz was not attacked first and then defended himself? With the grass stains, broken nose, etc, that gz suffered, theres more than enough evidence to show that gz was in the right.

Don't you realize the reason they are fighting so hard to convict gz is because it will look terrible to gun grabbers if its shown that an American used a firearm responsibly.

At the very least, the pictures would warrant a toxicology report on the victim. Could he have possibly been under the influence at the time? If he was, would that change your mind at all, or would you just say "so what9 kids think drugs are cool."? What if they analyzed the gun photo and found a serial number showing it was stolen or used in a murder, and what if the hand holding it is shown to match tm hand?

They probably cremated him to get rid of evidence anyway... Either that, or an exhumation would be too insensitive to the family. But now I kinda want to know...did they do a toxicology report?

reply to post by NavyDoc

What it means is, if TM has a school record of fist fights or other disruptive behavior, then we have a pattern that is consistent with the narrative that he circled back and assaulted somone for following. If you say patterns of behavior are relevant, then this pattern of behavior is just as relevant as the other.

A school record of doing kid's stuff is not the same as having a criminal record, by far.

reply to post by Tribunal


I don't know why Zimmerman was scared! Look at the guy! Does he look like the type to be out trying to find kids to shoot? I dont think that was his intention. Honestly, and this is only what I think, he probably seen the kid, stereotyped him, got scared and then acted out the way he did. Am I saying he did the right thing? Absolutely not. I AM saying that I think the guy was scared at some point before he decided to get out of the car. He probably had some sort of adrenalin rush at the same time too, which we all know, can make you do stupid things. I think you are confised. I am not justifying anyhthing that happened. I am only saying that it was unfortunate that it turned out the way that it did

reply to post by FlyersFan

Fear of being stalked is NOT reason to attack the stalker. That's illegal. And Zimmerman had reason to follow Martin. Neighborhood watch .....

You took my comment out of context.

The conversation was about fear driven actions.

Originally posted by 3n19m470

You're correct, that the pictures in and of themselves do not mean anything... But that's not the reason prosecution tried so hard to keep that out of the courtroom, now, is it?

No, the reason the prosecution tried so hard to keep this information tightly under wraps is that, when you take that and combine it with the other evidence: jumped a wall into a gated community:

Wrong.

Originally posted by 3n19m470
tresspassing,

Wrong.

Originally posted by 3n19m470
broke zimmermans nose and straddled him on the ground (grass stains on gz back and tm knees),

Far from proven.

Originally posted by 3n19m470
it begins to paint a picture of the boys character...

And wrong again. I'm not going to bother taking apart the rest of your post, but it's equally as full of wrong.

Originally posted by KaginD
reply to post by Tribunal

 

I don't know why Zimmerman was scared! Look at the guy! Does he look like the type to be out trying to find kids to shoot?

I've no idea. What does that kind of person look like?

Originally posted by KaginD
I dont think that was his intention. Honestly, and this is only what I think, he probably seen the kid, stereotyped him, got scared and then acted out the way he did. Am I saying he did the right thing? Absolutely not. I AM saying that I think the guy was scared at some point before he decided to get out of the car. He probably had some sort of adrenalin rush at the same time too, which we all know, can make you do stupid things. I think you are confised. I am not justifying anyhthing that happened. I am only saying that it was unfortunate that it turned out the way that it did

You're not saying anything happened, but it was unfortunate if anything did, amirite?

reply to post by 3n19m470

But hey, none of that matters because this is a case of self defense. How are they going to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that gz was not attacked first and then defended himself? With the grass stains, broken nose, etc, that gz suffered, theres more than enough evidence to show that gz was in the right.

But he shot an unarmed man, doesn't he have to prove that he didn't attack him first? Maybe he approached TM and tried to grab him? And TM then defended himself?All we have is GM's own story.

Maybe it is the truth, but to me the whole story leads up to GM confronting TM after the phone call.

I feel the 911 tape with the screaming for help and the pleading is the key here.

I find it strange that it can't be determined who's voice that was.

Has GM not been questioned about this?

Originally posted by Tribunal
reply to post by KaginD

 

But TM's fear was justified right away as he was being stalked by an unidentified man. There was no reason for GM to be stalking him however.

He was tresspassing... He hopped a 6 foot wall to get into a gated community. That's not suspicious enough? What are the walls and gate there for?

Stalking? No... Following. Stalking is something that takes days or weeks. There is no law that says a community watch must stand down when they see suspicious activity. Like an unfamiliar person in your neighborhood. If you just stand there and wait till they go around the corner, you aren't being very vigilant for a neighborhood watch guard.... I might even accuse you of laziness or naivety if that was your plan of action.

Stalking... Good one lol. If you've ever been in a nice neighborhood, where they have nice things, then you should know that they like to stay vigilant when it comes to strangers coming around. The color doesnt matter, most people know nowadays that there are criminals in every group you could think of.

Being followed, no matter how insistently, is not a legal reason to attack someone. So, are you trying to tell me that gz just up and attacked a kid for no reason? No... The kid attacked him and maybe in his mind he thought he had a good reason. "im a hardcore mfer, nobody follows me! I'll show him" sounds like a lot of dumb kids these days... Like the kind of kids who like to take pictures of drugs and guns on their phone so they can show their peers how "real" they are in the streets. You can earn street cred that way. It's proof that you've been with people who mess around with the real gangster Shiz. I know that world all too well, but luckily I got a good girl who helped me get away from it.

I guess they also withheld "tough talking" texts... Would sure like to see those.

But I guess those are probably just no big deal,either, which makes perfect sense because the prosecution is fighting so hard to keep them out of the courtroom.. Apparently its rediculous to want to know anything about this kid. Probably because it would crucify the prosecutions case if we knew the truth about him.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


...yes. You are right

Originally posted by Tribunal
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

However, physical assault at perceived disrespect is quite consistent with those who admire the "gangsta" culture. Thus, if the argument is that TM turned and attacked, then that history is quite as relevant as GZ's domestic issues. The history issue can and must go both ways to be just.

In a court it matters if you have a prior record.

TM didn't have one. GZ did, if I understand correctly.

Admire the gangsta culture? That's what half the kids of white america do so what does that really mean.

What is "gangsta culture" Navy Doc?? You really man BLACK kids, just admit it.

I have been shooting guns with my step-pop since i was 11 years old. If i have a picture of a gun or even (GASP) own a firearm does that mean i'm romanticizing this "gangsta culture" of which you speak?

I smoke so by default "gangsta culture"

I watched scarface, the sopranos, the god father and a bronx tale (casino, resivour dogs, and boys in the hood), oh my, i must be a wanna be gangster that deserves to die.

I listen to rap music so i must love "gangsta culture"

I wear hoodies so do i deserve to be gunned down too?

Tribunal was 100% correct when he typed "That's what half the kids of white america do so what does that really mean."

Why are you judging human beings worthiness of life over such silly trivial things??

George Zimmerman messed up, why are you defending him??

Why are people donating half a MILLION dollars to help with this mans defense?? WHY??

He killed a 17 year old unarmed kid that HE was stalking!

physical assault at perceived disrespect is quite consistent with those who admire the "gangsta" culture

Just as you can ASSUME that i myself deserve to be gunned down in the street and not allowed to defend myself from an unknown armed man stalking me because of the movies i watch and music i listen too or because i smoke i can too assume that you sir are a racist.

Originally posted by KaginD
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

...yes. You are right

You forgot to describe what the kind of person who goes out intending to shoot teenagers looks like.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

You mean to tell me that you would not confront someone who is following you? Coward...Martin stood his ground and was killed for it. Zimmerman will go to jail,,the facts show he followed a kid he assumed was up to no good...now how did he assume that? How did he know that the kid was not a relative of any of the neighbors there..there were black neighbors there but he also could have been friends or related to some of the white folks there. Did he know Martin's dad?

He was an unofficial neighborhood watch...since the tenants did not want him watching out for them.

George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization

the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch — it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.

George Zimmerman Neighbors Complained About Aggressive Tactics Before Trayvon Martin Killing

At an emergency homeowner’s association meeting on March 1, “one man was escorted out because he openly expressed his frustration because he had previously contacted the Sanford Police Department about Zimmerman approaching him and even coming to his home,” the resident wrote in an email to HuffPost. “It was also made known that there had been several complaints about George Zimmerman and his tactics" in his neighborhood watch captain role.

This idiot was looking for trouble..seems to have found but got his butt handed to him...so his cowardly ass pulled out a gun to help himself.

What the # is this "coward" crap? If someone is following me, I call the police and go to a safe place. That is what a civilized man does. I do not charge people, fists swinging, because I think they are following me. That is something that thugs and idiots do.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by macman

 

I don't know ... I'm just telling you what they have said in the MSM ... The FBI officially said that they can't match the voice to Zimmerman or Martin. Both the left and right wing media have reported it ... Fox and CNN and MSNBC. So I can just tell you what they said .... ya' know??

Not so much that as contradictory matches..

Background sounds of yelling for help in 9-1-1 calls

In recordings of the 9-1-1 calls, yells for help are audible in the background.

Zimmerman's family says it was Zimmerman yelling for help,

Martin's family says it was Martin yelling for help,

and independent audio analysts offer differing opinions as to who was yelling for help.

Zimmerman's father identified the yells as George Zimmerman's,

Other relatives of Zimmerman, including his brother, concur and are equally adamant.

According to police reports, after listening to audio recordings of the 9-1-1 calls, Martin's father, Tracy Martin, told police investigators that it was not Trayvon Martin's voice yelling for help.

Martin has since told reporters he was uncertain at that time, but that when he heard an enhanced recording on March 16 he was convinced it was his son yelling for help.

Investigators interviewed Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, who reviewed the 9-1-1 calls to police and identified the voice crying for help as her son.

Investigators also interviewed Martin's cousin who stated that without a doubt "on a stack of bibles" it was Martin yelling for help on the 9-1-1 tape.

During the FBI investigation, Witness 45, a neighbor of Zimmerman's, stated he was 110% sure the voice calling for help was Zimmerman's.

Independent audio experts vary in their interpretations of the low-quality audio of the phone recordings, which one expert compared to analyzing low-resolution video from a security camera.

The FBI was not able to determine whether it was Zimmerman or Martin who could be heard yelling out for help in 9-1-1 calls, citing both poor audio quality and "the extreme emotional state of the person screaming."

Two expert audio technicians, listed as possible witnesses for the prosecution, analyzed the emergency calls made during the altercation and concluded that the screams did not come from Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's attorneys have requested a Frye hearing regarding the admissibility of the testimony of the audio analysts, to determine if the methods used by them are generally accepted by the scientific community.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Allegorical

Originally posted by Tribunal
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

However, physical assault at perceived disrespect is quite consistent with those who admire the "gangsta" culture. Thus, if the argument is that TM turned and attacked, then that history is quite as relevant as GZ's domestic issues. The history issue can and must go both ways to be just.

In a court it matters if you have a prior record.

TM didn't have one. GZ did, if I understand correctly.

Admire the gangsta culture? That's what half the kids of white america do so what does that really mean.

What is "gangsta culture" Navy Doc?? You really man BLACK kids, just admit it.

I have been shooting guns with my step-pop since i was 11 years old. If i have a picture of a gun or even (GASP) own a firearm does that mean i'm romanticizing this "gangsta culture" of which you speak?

I smoke so by default "gangsta culture"

I watched scarface, the sopranos, the god father and a bronx tale (casino, resivour dogs, and boys in the hood), oh my, i must be a wanna be gangster that deserves to die.

I listen to rap music so i must love "gangsta culture"

I wear hoodies so do i deserve to be gunned down too?

Tribunal was 100% correct when he typed "That's what half the kids of white america do so what does that really mean."

Why are you judging human beings worthiness of life over such silly trivial things??

George Zimmerman messed up, why are you defending him??

Why are people donating half a MILLION dollars to help with this mans defense?? WHY??

He killed a 17 year old unarmed kid that HE was stalking!

physical assault at perceived disrespect is quite consistent with those who admire the "gangsta" culture

Just as you can ASSUME that i myself deserve to be gunned down in the street and not allowed to defend myself from an unknown armed man stalking me because of the movies i watch and music i listen too or because i smoke i can too assume that you sir are a racist.

Bull#. You are playing the race card like the fraud Al Sharpton does. There is no moral or legal reason to assault someone just because they are following you on a public street. You sir, are a racist.

Originally posted by Tribunal
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

What it means is, if TM has a school record of fist fights or other disruptive behavior, then we have a pattern that is consistent with the narrative that he circled back and assaulted somone for following. If you say patterns of behavior are relevant, then this pattern of behavior is just as relevant as the other.

A school record of doing kid's stuff is not the same as having a criminal record, by far.

GZ does not have a criminal record either. He could not have a CCW if he did have a criminal record.

both george and trayvon had "shady pasts" they both had skeletons in their closets, i'm sure if their pasts were admissible in court it would get very interesting. trayvon had weed, graffiti and neighborhood fights. zimmerman beat up his wife, fought with off duty cops, not to mention unsavory words towards minorities and ties to biker gangs on his myspace. lets not try and paint either party as angels. the facts and witness testimony that will be admissible will be what incriminates or exonerates zimmerman. the saddest part is we can never hear trayvons side of the story because he is dead.

reply to post by NavyDoc

What the # is this "coward" crap? If someone is following me, I call the police and go to a safe place. That is what a civilized man does. I do not charge people, fists swinging, because I think they are following me. That is something that thugs and idiots do.

That is EXACTLY what we are trying to tell you Navy Doc, we believe something different happened other than what George Zimmerman is saying. We are also NOT stereotyping this kid because of a suspension from school or a picture of a gun on his phone. It has been said MANY times in this thread that it is suspected that Zimmerman approached Trayvon and either flashed his gun on him and/or grabbed him.