Jehovah's Witnesses believe UN will ban Religion

you are totally wrong... may be you are disfellow from J.w congregation because of yours immorality.... so you can't bear it and start blaming them.....reply to post by Emily_Cragg

As i have spend life from last 8 years as Jehovah's witness.... i didn't find any fault in this congregation..... i don't know what happened to this ending world people... they are blaming jehovah's peoples unknowingly like the days of noah and all..... but soon you'll see the fullfillment of all the prophecy j.w taught from bible by god's holy spirit...... and than you all realize what you were doing..... may jehovah bless you because you all don't know what you are doing...........myself amit s........

They also told me 144,000 would be saved. I asked them which tribe they were from, and they didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I pointed out the scripture that stated 12,000 from each of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and they just didn't have an answer.

Just glad they got this UN thing all figure out.

reply to post by dooper

They keep a list of names at the Watchtower committee of the eligible candidates. I think the way it works is that as people on the list get old and die, it makes an opening for someone else to get one of these coveted positions. If this is wrong, and you know better, post a correction.
There was a thread a while back about the JW's stopping their outreach for converts. I looked it up a while back and it died after less than ten posts. If you have any info on that topic, post a correction or affirmation about whether they think the window of salvation is temporarily closed till the rapture.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I think the way it works is that as people on the list get old and die, it makes an opening for someone else to get one of these coveted positions. If this is wrong, and you know better, post a correction.

Who can say when the numbers are issued by a corporation along with their financial propaganda to the sheep who distribute it? People who push propaganda are the best ones to BELIEVE it of course, so the numbers are all arbitrary, imo.


The Watchtower is not any worse than all the other powerful corporations which masquerade as religions or as groups masquerading as religions, or as clubs masquerading as religions, and so on. In what I have just said, lies the whole secret.

How can any one human compete with the military industrial complexes of either Russia, the US or any nation? Well, what the Watchtower represents is simply a Religious Propagandic Complex, no different than any other, in any country.

Do you wonder why the CCCP for example, is so keen on fighting Falun Gong? It is because religious propaganda, is powerful, oh so very powerful. But in the US, this was all co-opted decades ago, so the Watchtower will hide persons under Federal Protection (yes I knew a person who was in the Federal Witness Protection Prgram and was an outwardly practicing JW convert) and they thereby get favorable powers from the Federal Government. What I am saying is that there are reasons for why governments may cooperate with religions, and these are not hard to understand. In the case of Falun Gong, they are appearing NOT to have as cozy a relationship with their ruling power, as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Penn. has with the US Federal powers. The Watchtower are kind of like the Amish but more modern and it makes a nice place to hide people under Federal Protection (other uses can be extrapolated)

Watchtower Missionaries (and their fellow worshippers) do not believe in a "rapture", but they do believe that the 97th percentile of unbelievers, will be destroyed. I pity them this belief, but I have learned that so many of the world's little people have the same secret hope, that the Big Daddy God will come and wipe out everyone except their own group.

In a way, this world is one where everyone's awaiting a flood, and we all choose our own craft, which we think will survive. Watchtower Devotees have chosen a craft with x-number of people in it, and with a certain power structure. Other people, for example Muslims, might similarly have their choice of craft to involve themselves with, so as to best survive the coming flood. Everyone is judging the size of their craft, Mormons, Catholics alike. So many ways to align oneself for the "event" we are all heading toward. Call it "Armageddon" or whatever you want.

I have found that a flood is coming, yes. I have found that the best craft, in which to survive what's coming, is a family-sized one, and nothing bigger. Now since my parents are JWs, and they are involving themselves with a larger craft --which ship I abandoned of course, then it is up to me, to keep them as part of my own craft, which is family-sized, and which involves me, my loved ones and friends whose loyalties are above any associations. This previous statement means that anybody whom I love now, is loyal to friendship/family, above groups like the UN or the Watchtower.

Now, the Watchtower would call me "Satanic Apostate" because I was born into their church and now expose truth. But in my perspective, I have simply gone outside and 'sounded' their craft, like any good sailor might do, to see if it'll hold water when the big flood comes. But did the holes exist in their craft, before I was born into it? That for me, is the main question. They don't want anybody exposing the holes while they draw people inside their "ark", but I for one do not believe their boat will float, in the moment of truth.

I prefer family, over associations. But associations (or religions), must always prefer associations (or religions), over families.




[edit on 15-10-2008 by smallpeeps]

1) People latch onto their one bad experience with a JW - there are always people at extremes in every religion.

2) Disfellowshipping isn't such a HUGE deal that a lot of people are making it seem. Although there are several stages before disfellowshipping and one would have to be extremely unrepentant to get that far. I believe people who have been disfellowshipped are still able to attend meetings, just not socialise/answer up during/after/before meetings with other witnesses.

3) There is some saying like "the light gets brighter" or "the torch shines brighter" as we draw closer to the end. JWs have made predictions, and again there are always extreme cases ie people leaving their jobs because they think it's going to be the end of the world. I believe you shouldn't make extreme plans for the end of the world, but don't be underprepared and caught off guard when it happens.

4) About the 144,000, simply put they are 'special', chosen ones if you want... chosen to rule over and govern the paradise earth. I believe these 144,000 are a higher power than the original angels.

I'm a newcomer to the Bible and Jehovah's witnesses, but they are some simple answers to FAQ in this thread. Please correct me if I've made any errors [=

Witnesses do not believe only 144,000 will survive the end of the wickedness on earth they believe millions will survive, they believe only 144000 Rev 14, will go to heaven to rule with jesus over the government on a perfect earth void of wickedness

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Witnesses do not believe only 144,000 will survive the end of the wickedness on earth they believe millions will survive, they believe only 144000 Rev 14, will go to heaven to rule with jesus over the government on a perfect earth void of wickedness

Why would you need to be anonymous to post this?

When you say "Millions", what you omit is the actual membership of the Watchtower army, which is around 2 million or so (barely climbing thanks to third world efforts of ignorance-perpetuation).

So honestly, you should say "Less than 5 million" which means the Watchtower believes 6 billion people must die for their God to set things right.

Like I described above, everyone think their boat will float, when the water rises. I think the survival of the flod is not going to be in big ships like churches or Corporations like the Watchtower. I think survival will be achieved through freely collaborative actions between families with no other heirarchy between them. ...This thinking is anathema to any church/Corporation.

reply to post by smallpeeps


There are in fact nearly 7 million baptised J.W's in the world. 13 million in total if you count those associated with them.

To clear all other posts up:

1914 was start of christs rule in heaven
1975 was a thing some thought, but was not the idea of the J.W's H.Q.
Armagedon ????? bible says no one knows the day.
yes 144,000 go to heaven
all other faithful ones from all nations around the world will enjoy a clean earth
All none believing + Evil ones will die
Yes U.N. will ban Religion Then the END will come.

Mat 6V 9 onwards "let your kingdom come, let your will take place on earth."
etc. Every christian prays for this to happen.

Signs are given in the bible, that piont to this time we live in.
======
Some people claim to be a J.W's but are not strong in their faith, hence they do not follow bible laws E.G. NO RAPE / STEAL / WAR etc.

All of of are tempted to do wrong, But only the weak act on it!!

Can you then tar the whole religion with the same brush????

If you read that say..... a teacher in the school you attend raped a student
would you then conclude that all the teachers in the school were bad and that the Head teacher condoned that action??

No. any reasonable person would realise that its just one persons bad. And that the rest of the school would always uphold high moral stadards.


There will always be bad and good in every organisation.
Can every person be watched 24/7. Trust can be abused!!!

Difference is.... J.W's are the only people i know who as a majority follow bible scripture and do not let the worlds ideas / traditions change their beliefs.

Alot of what i've read on this site is frankly... disgruntled people who failed to follow bible law / felt it was to hard for them / or sadly for them just had one or two of the above mentioned week (J.W.s only in name) treat them badly.

True also is that J.W's are told not to read sites like this.

Why? Well can you blame them???

No one on here really knows the facts, it's all, i thinks, or i was a J.W some years ago...


My V-best advice for any one on here is to ask a J.W. what they really believe, Some that call are sometimes new to the faith, but get someone who has been one all their life and they will gladly tell you.


Before anyone asks YES i am a J.W.

My children, my wife and I do preach to the public. we all enjoy it. And every time we go out we are trying to help people live by bible stardards (Is it such a bad thing to tell people to love one another and promote kindness???).



And i hear lots of these stories. Again. hear it from the horses mouth.
Mike. (from England)

Originally posted by smallpeeps
When you say "Millions", what you omit is the actual membership of the Watchtower army, which is around 2 million or so (barely climbing thanks to third world efforts of ignorance-perpetuation).

i think their membership is pushing 8 million now.

So honestly, you should say "Less than 5 million" which means the Watchtower believes 6 billion people must die for their God to set things right.

you touch an interesting point here. does the world need to be destroyed? because thats what we are talking about here right? destruction.

i think the next question should be, if destruction is not necessary how can you fix the worlds problems? if you have a plan to solve the worlds problems, why isnt anything being put into action?

i struggled over these questions for sometime, but i realized that the problem is not the world. it's us. the world is not broken, we are.

every problem, every injustice and every pain can be brought back in some way to selfishness. someone somewhere makes an action that is self-centered and its ramifications affect those around that person. the more power that person possesses, the more people affected by his selfishness.

the fact is, utopia cannot exist with unloving self-centered people. to suggest that the world is not filled with such like people is to display ignorance of human nature

Like I described above, everyone think their boat will float, when the water rises. I think the survival of the flod is not going to be in big ships like churches or Corporations like the Watchtower. I think survival will be achieved through freely collaborative actions between families with no other heirarchy between them. ...This thinking is anathema to any church/Corporation.

lol, its funny you should use this analogy since there was infact only one ark

reply to post by miriam0566


So true, have you seen the absolute ignorance at the GOP rallies for the 2008 elections some of it from so-called christians. These thought patterns must be destroyed if the people won't abandon them of there own free will.

This is why the poliltical machine will eventually turn on organizied religion, the more radical elements within every religious branch must be purged in order for there to be a peace even within the same nations. This includes Christian, Muslim, and Judaism.

Obama has already talked about changing not only America but the world, since he has been a victim of radical religion.... the time is approching people, you better start to watch world events really close after Nov. 4 2008.

[edit on 25-10-2008 by Blue_Jay33]

Having been surrounded by witnesses for all of my life I will say that there are many interesting aspects about them:

For one thing; NWO was a term applied by them to a new world "system" that they believe God will enforce. This "New World Order" term, they were using way before conspiracy believers! I remember them using this term back in the 60's!

I know for a fact that; alcoholism, homosexuality, and child abuse, are rampant in that religion. But they are "secrets" that are handled by the elders and the governing body in NY, and are not released to the public and law enforcement. I worked in mental health involving so many from this religion, and have experienced it first hand.

"Love amongst themselves" is very subjective as it so depends on not rocking the boat! It is a very dysfunctional...conditional love, based on performance and a cloning type of unity.

reply to post by miriam0566

i think their membership is pushing 8 million now.

Actually, the last time I talked to an elder from that religion, he said there was a great falling away and that the numbers were dropping and mostly long term witnesses. There was no increase of membership in the U.S. for a long time and it was dropping around the world.

It is wishful thinking for them to believe that 8 million are actually active members! It was about that number 12 years ago! So they definitely are not growing.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


oops 7 million, sorry
en.wikipedia.org...'s_Witnesses

Originally posted by miriam0566
i think their membership is pushing 8 million now.

i think the next question should be, if destruction is not necessary how can you fix the worlds problems? if you have a plan to solve the worlds problems, why isnt anything being put into action?

i struggled over these questions for sometime, but i realized that the problem is not the world. it's us. the world is not broken, we are.

lol, its funny you should use this analogy since there was infact only one ark

1: That 8 million figure is totally false. Their only new members are ignorant poor in Mexico and other poverty-stricken areas. --Oh wait I meant "Spiritually Needy Ones", lol

2: Destruction of the world might sound good to you, but not to the world. 8 million self-righteous undereducated doorknockers do not have the solution, unless it is their "final solution" of their God killing 98% of the Earth's peoples. Some solution, kinda like chopping of one's head because of a stubbed toe.

3: "We" are broken? I think you might be looking a bit to far beyond the end of your nose. ...It is the Watchtower, who collect broken people, by seeking them at their door, in a surprised, weakened state. Jesus did not ambush people at their doors and push someone else's propagandic writings, yet the JW think they are walking in Jesus' footsteps.

4: Your beliefs are so fully pinned down! How wonderful it must be to have certainty. Yes I know that Noah had only one ark, but the story itself is a global myth, so it could have been anything. What I am pointing to, is the Watchtower's portrayal of THEMSELVES as God's ark and their hypocracy in not wanting their people to indentify inconsistencies (holes) in their ark. ...Did you really not understand my biting satire? I feel sad now.

But the all-seeing "Watchtower" really just a mirror form of Catholicism, if you look at it. The Watchtower may have rejected the pomp of the Catholics, but not the inquisitionary spirit, and not the piousness. I think both the Catholics (Rome) and the Watchtower (Jewish B'nai Brith front) are the same kind of poison. They seem to be two sides of the larger dialectic, so clearly opposed, yet so clearly in agreement. also both sides wouldbe happy to eliminate half of the world's population and then fight for the survivors.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
1: That 8 million figure is totally false. Their only new members are ignorant poor in Mexico and other poverty-stricken areas. --Oh wait I meant "Spiritually Needy Ones", lol

and im sure you an expert on this subject. i bow to your superior intellect and ability to count numbers

2: Destruction of the world might sound good to you, but not to the world. 8 million self-righteous undereducated doorknockers do not have the solution, unless it is their "final solution" of their God killing 98% of the Earth's peoples. Some solution, kinda like chopping of one's head because of a stubbed toe.

now this was the discussion i was having, i was talking about this belief and whether or not they have a point. honestly im not interested in listening to you ramble about an organization you have a problem with for god knows what reason.

the problem here is that you are so fixated on taking jabs at them that you fail to realize that the bible too talks about an end of a "wicked" world. JW's arent just pulling this stuff out of their ass.

and the fact that you liken the worlds problems to a "stubbed toe" just show how biased your opinion is. in my last post i asked some questions like if this world is fixable, then where do we start? why havent we started? you turned this into a jab on JW's, but i ask you to seriously think about the question. why are we sitting on a nuclear stockpile that can blow the world to bits several times over? why do we even still have world hunger? why is there an AIDS epidemic? all of these problems are fixable but what stops us from fixing them is us.

how ridiculas would it be to walk up to the worlds leaders and say, "please dismantle your military"

there is so much tension in the world that that is impossible. not to mention the things that people dont like to mention which is that some of these leaders dont have good intentions. they wouldnt want to be the first to disarm because they frankly would like to take advantage of the situation.

its not a stubbed toe, the world is in the ICU, in its death throws. im surprised that a person like you being on a site like this who can turn on the news anytimes they like doesnt see this. never before has the world been in danger in so many ways.

so if the bibles idea of wiping out everyone who contributes to the wickedness of this world in order for it to be "fixed" repulses you, then stop complaining and offer an alternative.

3: "We" are broken? I think you might be looking a bit to far beyond the end of your nose. ...It is the Watchtower, who collect broken people, by seeking them at their door, in a surprised, weakened state. Jesus did not ambush people at their doors and push someone else's propagandic writings, yet the JW think they are walking in Jesus' footsteps.

actually jesus did specifically send his disciple out door to door. in fact, from the looks of it, the JW's, and the Mormons seem to be the only ones actually walking in jesus' footsteps

matt 10:[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
[8] Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
[9] Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
[10] Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
[11] And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
[12] And when ye come into an house, salute it.
[13] And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
[14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

matt 6:[6] And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
[7] And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
[8] And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse:
[9] But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
[10] And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place.
[11] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
[12] And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

the apostles too went door to door, would you like some scriptural references for that?

4: Your beliefs are so fully pinned down! How wonderful it must be to have certainty. Yes I know that Noah had only one ark, but the story itself is a global myth, so it could have been anything. What I am pointing to, is the Watchtower's portrayal of THEMSELVES as God's ark and their hypocracy in not wanting their people to indentify inconsistencies (holes) in their ark. ...Did you really not understand my biting satire? I feel sad now.

im not going to get into whether the flood was real or figurative, but since you think it was figurative, im going to approach the discussion from that angle. lets say hypothetically god will destroy this world. what type of person would he preserve?

if a person is able to discern the truth from the bible but chooses not to, do you think god will preserve them?

what about people who do bad things to themselves and to others without remorse?

adam and eve died because they were disobedient, they didnt kill anyone, they didnt "hurt" anyone and yet they died. its not that you disagree with JW's on the matter of armageddon, you disagree with the bible.

But the all-seeing "Watchtower" really just a mirror form of Catholicism, if you look at it. The Watchtower may have rejected the pomp of the Catholics, but not the inquisitionary spirit, and not the piousness. I think both the Catholics (Rome) and the Watchtower (Jewish B'nai Brith front) are the same kind of poison. They seem to be two sides of the larger dialectic, so clearly opposed, yet so clearly in agreement. also both sides wouldbe happy to eliminate half of the world's population and then fight for the survivors.

inquisitionary spirit? lol

door to doo ministry and the inquisition are 2 completely different things

Originally posted by UnholyP
The person always has a chance redeem him/herself and is greeted back with open arms. Everyone is ready to help any way they can. Of cource criminals and such are a different matter, but people like alcohol problems etc.

.

Seems like the foot prints in the sand poem is a little different for JW.
Being left on your ass at your lowest of times instead of being carried threw it by you congregation is one of the lowest things I can think of a church to do.

"Whats that you got caught up in the sub prime? Lost your home and your family and now you live in your car and have become a crack smoking prostitute who has strayed from the flock? Get out of MY church!!" I couldn't imagine it.

Church is not a place to be filled with only the most perfect believers like they are Diamonds on a ring to be presented to the Lord on the day of your death.

I would rather have a murder or thief come to my church to look for the truth in God and a new life then have 1000s of followers ready to throw them out for what they have done and want to change and ask for forgiveness.

Originally posted by Lophorus
"Whats that you got caught up in the sub prime? Lost your home and your family and now you live in your car and have become a crack smoking prostitute who has strayed from the flock? Get out of MY church!!" I couldn't imagine it.

job was in a similiar situation, he didnt have to resort to drugs or fornication.

your logic is fundementally flawed.

JW's dont shun people for sinning. they shun those that sin, but refuse to repent. thats not down and out.