The truth about Islam

Wow it�s a good thing you shut him down so decidedly about things irrelevant to the post ‎JAK
Now your syncopating toadies will never question your superior knowledge of the subject ‎at hand .Your kung fu is the greatest . you�re a dandy dresser ass well.‎

Originally posted by Illmatic67

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis

Originally posted by quango
The Truth about Patrick Henry:
"He owned 66 plantation slaves" from link

Give me Liberty or Give me Death, huh?
Unless you're black.

That's all you read?

That's all he read because that post is garbage worthy of the dumpster.

I can't count how many times those "I hate Islam even though I don't know anything about it" posts has been recycled on ATS. It's been repeated 100 and refuted 100 times.

Just cause you like to knock the pieces off the board and claim you won doesn�t mean ‎your really know how its played.‎
Your ignorant rein of lies is coming to an end.‎

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
Introductionary is not a word.

Introductionary is a word.

Christians and Hebrews have these same themes in their religious text's as well. Should I start watching 'those' ones too?

Recipe for Jesus's love.
Stir in 3 egg whites.
1 1/2 Cups of flour
1/2 cup of milk
1/2 cup of water and mix
Slowly fold in the following ingredients from Deutoronomy:

13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

Spoon mixture onto cookie sheet.
Bake at 777 degrees for 22-25 minutes or until dust


[edit on 6-11-2004 by farhyde]

www.onelook.com...

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Originally posted by farhyde


Christians and Hebrews have these same themes in their religious text's as well. Should I start watching 'those' ones too?

Recipe for Jesus's love.
Stir in 3 egg whites.
1 1/2 Cups of flour
1/2 cup of milk
1/2 cup of water and mix
Slowly fold in the following ingredients from Deutoronomy:

13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:

17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:

20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

Spoon mixture onto cookie sheet.
Bake at 777 degrees for 22-25 minutes or until dust


[edit on 6-11-2004 by farhyde]

Thats all nice and good but how much of that came from the mouth of Jesus? I respect Muslims and their faith in Muhammad, but I dont think Jesus and Muhammad can't be compared. One was a pacifist the other was a soldier known killer and slave owner.

[edit on 6-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by Flange Gasket
Very good research, I'm impressed...

It is important however to understand that the "terrorists" who are involved in acts like 9/11, Jakarta Embassy bombing and many others principally funded by Saudi interests. Saudi Arabia has recently been reaconed to own 8% of the American Economy, and no doubt has large interests in many western ecomonies, Oil is currently at it's most expensive price ever, so it's clear to even the most casual observer that, the whole "Jihad" is at least in part based on economic interest.

I'm assuming you got that number from Fahrenheit 9-11? There is absolutely no basis for that statement. Moore says he got the number from the book House of Saud, House of Bush, but that number can be found nowhere in that book.

I recommend David Kopel's 59 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9-11, which makes a detailed argument against many of Moore's lies. The "8%" fallacy is a big one.

Originally posted by Elfwood
Is this not double standards you brand Islam asevil for there command to kill non-believers but totally ignore that the bible has a similar and far worse command. If one man in a village worships a false god let the entire village burn to the ground. Or some thing to that effect (I cant remember the actual quote).

There currently is not a global scourge of Jews or Christians slaughtering and terrorizing non-believers. In fact, the only place where these religions has not been completely secularized is Israel. There is no such thing as Christendom anymore.

Islamdom, however, has not softened.

Further, if you're a Christian, the teachings of Christ take precedent when they contradict Old Testement verse. And Christ's messages was strictly love, tolerance, and peace, even for those who would do you harm. Read his sermon on the mount. You'll find NOTHING like that in the Qur'an.

Islam, first and formost, is evil because its prophet was evil. He is on record, and this is exclusively from Muslim sources, as being a warmonger, a mass murderer, a rapist, and a pedophile. Are you aware of the hadith? It is of equal importance in Islam to the Qur'an. It is a collection of sayings and deeds of the prophet Muhammad, so that Muslims may emulate his life. In it are accounts of him leading military expeditions, ordering assasinations of elderly men, and women with children because they dared mock him in verse, murdering the men of an entire Jewish tribe (the Banu Quraysh) and then raping their women and selling them along with the children into slavery, marrying a 6 year old girl (Aisha) and consummating the marriage when she was 9 (Muhammad was 44 years her senior).

Muslims are ordered to emulate him. You cannot be a Muslim unless you consult both the Qur'an and the hadith. Fact.

Originally posted by Illmatic67That's all he read because that post is garbage worthy of the dumpster.

I can't count how many times those "I hate Islam even though I don't know anything about it" posts has been recycled on ATS. It's been repeated 100 and refuted 100 times.

If it's been refuted before it will not get passed me. I doubt you've come across many people who've put as much effort into studying Islam as I have. Go to this link. I've accessed about 95% of the material on that page, including the Qur'an, the hadith of Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and the sira Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq, the earliest known biographer of Muhammad. Those are all revered Muslim sources, and the original post is almost entirely based on direct quotes from the Qur'an. How anyone managed to refute the violence and intolerance codified in the Qur'an is beyond me. But I welcome you to give it a try.

I hope your ego is strong enough to take a blow.

Hmmm, so are we advocating mass conversions to "save" the Muslims from the errors of their ways?

Maybe they could all become members of Billy Graham's congregation

Seriously... I love it when people aren't able to make the distinction between extremists and the general population.

It like saying "left-wing liberals advocate tolerance for homosexuality. Therefore, all liberals are homosexuals."

The only Muslim you will ever hear me attack is Muhammad. Otherwise, I direct my scrutiny at what Islam's texts teach Muslims. Whether they listen to their god or not is irrelevant.

The point is so long as Islam exists there will be terrorism, and we beg them to kill us if we continue to pretend Islam is a religion of peace, or a religion no different from any others.

All you have to do is read, and you will see the truth. The sad fact is I can guarantee you none of you who are attacking me have ever read the Qur'an or the hadith. You probably don't even know what the hadith is.

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
The only Muslim you will ever hear me attack is Muhammad. Otherwise, I direct my scrutiny at what Islam's texts teach Muslims. Whether they listen to their god or not is irrelevant.

The point is so long as Islam exists there will be terrorism, and we beg them to kill us if we continue to pretend Islam is a religion of peace, or a religion no different from any others.

All you have to do is read, and you will see the truth. The sad fact is I can guarantee you none of you who are attacking me have ever read the Qur'an or the hadith. You probably don't even know what the hadith is.

Sir I hear your message loud and clear, the problem is, here at ATS they are in denial about islam. They are keen to lump all religion together period. All evil of Islam is just the evil of all religion. So that is why you will not be heard here. But I do hear you. I have made the very same pleas. The people of ATS are so elite, they cannot distinguish between religions. This is truely a godless community.

Introductionary is not a word, by the way.

Introductory is a word. Look it up.

www.m-w.com...

mmmmm, fair enough....

From your sources...

" February 11, 2002, Washington Post story, titled "Enormous Wealth Spilled Into American Coffers." .... The article states:

After nearly three decades of accumulating this wealth, the group referred to by bankers as "high net worth Saudi individuals" holds between $500 billion and $1 trillion abroad, most of it in European and American investments. Brad Bourland, chief economist of the Saudi American Bank (one-quarter owned by Citibank), said in a speech in London last June that his bank's best estimate of the total is about $700 billion, with the possibility that it is as much as $1 trillion.

Raymond Seitz, vice chairman of Lehman Brothers in London and a former U.S. ambassador to Britain, gave a similar estimate. Seitz said Saudis typically put about three-quarters of their money into the United States, the rest in Europe and Asia. That would mean that Saudi nationals have invested perhaps $500 billion to $700 billion in the American economy."

With all due respect, it may not be 8%, but it's one hell of a lot of money...

Are you really asserting that you honestly believe that Osama Bin Laden, heir apparent to a multi billion dollar family fortune, is completely niave as to the effects of his actions on governments and financial markets of the west?

Do you really think this terrorism is just religious fervour with no ulterior agenda whatsoever, and he just happened to make his public announcement on the eve of the US election through sheer coincedence?

Flasket you are one smart dude
They must move now before the resourses run out.
but I do not support any colusion in favor of any overidng conspricy
as delsious as it seems it is nothing but a tantalizing pipe dream.

Maybe so...

but, as far as I can tell there's only one true religion that all colors and creeds worship...

money...

[edit on 6-11-2004 by Flange Gasket]

When I see a thread with the title "The Truth About _______", the one thing I can be pretty sure of is that I won't find the actual truth about anything in it.

So far, my theorem seems to be holding up nicely. The thesis advanced in the topic post could also be advanced about pretty much any belief system based on old texts, including Judaism and Christianity.

Fundamentalists, radicals and fanatics are masters of finding justifications for their actions, no matter how reprehensible. For evidence of this, you need look no further than the copious examples available right here on ATS.

If Jews were still stoning people to death for adultery, or Christians burning people at the stake for heresy, we could engage in a exercise similar to that enshrined in the topic post.

However, no matter how pat various analyses of radical doctrines may be, they rarely explain why people embrace them, and when you get down to it, that's the only question that's really relevant.

For the curious, here's what Google has on the word introductionary. Words are coined and used by people, and dictionary researchers spend their time tracking them down and capturing definitions for them

Dictionaries are not responsible for inventing words. That's up to us.

Oh, and Ibn Iblis, welcome to ATS. May you enjoy your stay.



[edit on 11/6/2004 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic

For the curious, here's what Google has on the word introductionary. Words are coined and used by people, and dictionary researchers spend their time tracking them down and capturing definitions for them

Dictionaries are not responsible for inventing words. That's up to us.

Oh, and Ibn Iblis, welcome to ATS. May you enjoy your stay.



[edit on 6-11-2004 by farhyde]

Thank you.

Thats all nice and good but how much of that came from the mouth of Jesus? I respect Muslims and their faith in Muhammad, but I dont think Jesus and Muhammad can't be compared. One was a pacifist the other was a soldier known killer and slave owner.

[edit on 6-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Your right those words didn't come from the mouth of Jesus. But they do indeed come out of the bible which is the basis for old and new christian cells. All I was trying to show was, that if you are going to say that the Koran is full of hatespeak then it is important to also realize that the muslim enemy is guided by similar themes.

Was Muhhamad a weirdo? You bet, compared to what we know of Jesus, hell apples and oranges there. Alas, I have never read the Koran and I am ignorant of its contents. I know more of Muhhamad than I do of the religion. Married his 10 year old cousin or something like that... kinda like that 'great balls of fire' guy.

I worry abit when I hear what I think may be speach designated against a perticular group of people. If we are gonna be pissed at someone let's hate this God/Allah guy he/she/it turned everyone against each other.

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
Wow it�s a good thing you shut him down so decidedly about things irrelevant to the post ‎JAK
Now your syncopating toadies will never question your superior knowledge of the subject ‎at hand .Your kung fu is the greatest . you�re a dandy dresser ass well.‎

KAOSKTRL, I thought that posts between myself and Ibn Iblis were quite self-explanatory. Even in my short time here I have seen many people turn up screaming about one group or another. Generally they don't turn out to be the most interesting of people, consumed by their hatred to the extent of posting very little elsewhere. A glimpse at a members post history can be very enlightening.

Hence my short welcome, (but a welcome nevertheless, and one that there is no requirement for me, or any of us to give), the tentativeness of that welcome, and the briefness in length of our correspondence before finally submitting to any previous opinion that I may hold of one who posts such material as an astute observation rather than an unfounded assumption.

As for any syncopating toadies, perhaps you might be good enough to actually charge someone with this accusation, and deal with them, rather than attempt to use such crass manner as an attempt to attack my person. I never knew I was of such standing to have 'toadies', and I'm sure that those you accuse would very much appreciate being informed too, as they are probably totally unawares to the situation.

Thank you for the kind comment on my dress, yet I fail to see any webcams trained upon my person, although it is possible they could have been installed covertly. Yet I doubt this, so I am forced then to presume that the remark was in reference to my Avatar, in which case I should normally be inclined to enquire as to the pertinence of such a comment, yet somehow I feel the reply I might recieve would be less that polite, and certainly less than entertaining.

Now, I suggest that we allow the thread to continue its course without any further interruption. If you wish to continue, I'm sure that you can discover how to utilize the U2U facility here.

It may take you some time, but perseverance and determination are admirable qualities.

Jack




[edit on 7/11/04 by JAK]

Originally posted by Majic
When I see a thread with the title "The Truth About _______", the one thing I can be pretty sure of is that I won't find the actual truth about anything in it.

Everything I posted is absolutely 110% true, and deflecting these crimes onto other religions doesn't make it any less true.

Let me define for you right now the difference between Islamic terrorism and the attrocities attributable to Christianity.

The Crusades, inquisition, witch hunts, et. al., are not sanctioned by God, and I can prove it. The proof is the word of Christ. You can toss as many Old Testement verses in my face as you please but the fact is if you're a Christian the Old Testement takes a back seat to Christ's teachings, especially when they contradict each other. The Old Testement condones polygamy? Christ is against it. The OT describes a jealous God? Christ says it doesn't matter who you worship just as long as you do good in life to the less fortunate. Christ says to love and pray for your enemies, and if they strike your left cheek turn to them your right. Christ was peace love and tolerance, all the time, in every circumstance.

Thus we can say with authority that the Crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, the Ku Klux Klan, the halocaust, etc, are UN-Christian acts carried out by people who claimed to be Christians acting in the name of Christ.

In Islam, it is the opposite. And I've proven it with the passages I quoted in the topic opener. You can show me verses in the Qur'an that tell Muslims to be tolerant to the "People of the Book", but then you'd have to explain abrogation, at which point I'd tell you that every single tolerant verse in the Qur'an has been abrogated by passages like 005:051 and 009:005. In other words, God changed His mind. If you view the Qur'an in chronological order instead of the way it is presented (from longest chapter to the shortest), you'd see that in the earlier, Meccan period Muhammad tried to woo people of other religions, which is why not only is the earlier verses tolerant, but also why there are so many facets of other religions incorporated into Islam, from the pagan rituals of the Meccans to Zoroastrianism to Judaism to Christianity to Sabianism and on and on. This is tied directly into the Satanic Verses as well. Muhammad tried to appease the Meccans by saying three of the Meccan idols were daughter of Allah, but he forgot that Allah had no partners, that he is bogotten by no one and he begets no one.

Then once he establishes his power base in Medina the verses become violent and hateful. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. Cut of their heads and fingertips and toes, and their arms and legs on opposite sides. Do not take Jews and Christians for friends and protectors. Etc...etc...

If you understand abrogation, which true Muslims most certainly do, then you realize that the tolerant verses mean nothing. And by true Muslims I'm talking about Muslims who have barely read anything but the Qur'an since they first learned to read. The ones for whom Islam is not just a religion but an all encompassing way of life, dictating everything a Muslim does, from how and when to pray to how to blow your nose. To these people, there is no compromising the word of God, and for this reason we will always be at war with Islam.

Islam only becomes a peaceful religion when the Dar al-Harb is destroyed and only Dar al-Islam remains. I'm sorry to shatter your westernized secular sensibilities but those are the facts and you simply cannot dispute them.

Thats all nice and good but how much of that came from the mouth of Jesus? I respect Muslims and their faith in Muhammad, but I dont think Jesus and Muhammad can't be compared. One was a pacifist the other was a soldier known killer and slave owner.


You can�t force our moral views on a different time. In that time it was common to own slaves it even says in the Old Testament that it is ok to own slaves from boarding country. So you have to consider their actions by that times moral code. Consider this say in the further ever one became a vegetarians should they ignore every thing we ever did because we were mass murders in there eyes of-course not you can only judge some one by there times idea of right and wrong.

The problem is the hadith has been collected because Muhammad is to be emulated by all Muslims in all times.

The Qur'an is the perfect, ETERNAL word of God. It cannot be altered by man, scrutinized by man, or interpretted by man.

Christianity has reformed because of its basic structure, which allows you to question the prophets and know God and control our own destiny.

Islam is fatalistic, and Allah is unknowable, unattainable, and his commandments are final and non-negotiable.

What consists of Apostasy in Islam?

Fourth, belief that there is a more perfect guidance than that of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam), or that there is a form of governance that is preferable to this, such as someone who prefers the rule of tyrants to that of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam).
Fifth, dislike of any part of the Revelation, even though one may act upon it, is disbelief.

The Apostate: Relinquishing the Faith:

The al-Azhar University in Egypt

The University of Azhar has been regarded through the years as the Mineret (light) of Islam for the entire Islamic world. The Legislative committee at the Azhar issued "The Bill of Legal Punishments.

The "Bill of Legal Punishments" says (p.12),

"A person guilty of apostasy (man or woman) shall be put to death if repentance is not made within the period allowed which shall not exceed sixty days. Repentance of a person who commits apostasy more than twice shall not be accepted.

"The crime of apostasy is committed in the following ways:

1.making an explicit statement or committing an act definitely indicating renunciation of Islam,
2. denial of essential tenets of the faith,
3. bringing into ridicule through word or action, the Gracious Koran."

On page 30, we find this explanatory note:

"The ordained penalty for apostasy is based on the Sunnahh. The prophet, peace be on him, said, �One who changes his faith is to be killed' (al Bukhari). It is also narrated by Al Dar Qutni that when a woman called Umm-Marwan had renounced Islam, the Prophet ordered that if she failed to repent she should be put to death. The rightly guided Caliphs continued this practice. It is fully known that Abu-Bakr the truthful fought against those who had deserted from the religion of Islam and killed many. The Gracious Companions were of the same view, and a consensus emerged on this issue."

Doesn't get any more clear-cut than that.

‎ Don�t get your Panties in a bunch JAK I just want to stir you pot seeing as I�ve read a ‎couple of your posts and your knee-jerk reaction to posts about Islam they are fluff, ‎bluster and posturing .
That is often good enough and garners admiration from person with similar proclivities to ‎defend something they don�t understand .‎
‎‎But its not good enough unless your end is to defend Nazis or worse.
You finishing with an effete dismissal of ibn proving your superiority that is not in evidence.‎
I did not want to miss the show.‎