The truth about Islam

The existance of Israel, a Jewish state, in what they consider to be their holy land, has re-awakened a fundamentalist mentality. Arabs otherwise hate the Palestinians, but the presence of Israel kind of puts that on the backburner. But all of this is not exceptional at all in light of Muslim history. It's par for the course. You just haven't heard about alot of it. Take your pick--Christianity, Nazism, Communism...Islam's got them all beat in terms of attrocity.

Plus the Middle East is where it began. When fire investigators try to determine where a fire started, they look to the area that has the most damage. In the M.E. Islam takes on a far deeper meaning than just a manner of worship. It's every aspect of life, from prayers to bathing to women's menstrual periods to using toothpicks to blowing your nose. It's literally all-encompassing.

And when you're among the faithful, and in your heart you believe the Qur'an is the word of God, every word of it, and you see the terrible torments of Hell described in the Qur'an, and the licentious pleasure of paradise, you don't dare disobey God. I think the biggest problem we're having here in seeing what's really going on with these terrorists is we're viewing their scripture from a non-believer's point of view. Most Christians don't take the Bible very literally. Alot of us here seem to be of the agnostic/atheist persuation. These fundamentalists believe the Qur'an is Allah's commandments for them, and none of his commands are more or less important than the other.

So when God says kill non-Muslims wherever they can be found, the true believer has no choice but to listen, obey, submit.

Islam literally means submit.

Howlrunner, WHY are you misquoting me? Are you trying to add even more lies to a thread with already so much in it? Ibn Iblis, what paperclip said is exactly what you did. You picked out a bunch of doctored sentences and screwed up their context. That is what is obvious to anyone who has read the Quran. And what are you talking about sexual inequality? Since when does Islam advocate that? Just because some Muslim countries do, does not mean it is a command from God.
aSeeker, Ibn Iblis DOES NOT have the facts and verses.
God never said to kill non-muslims wherever they are found. I thought I explained that to you. Or did you just ignore my post? Here, lets have an example of one of your "doctored quotes":
You said:
[004:101] Surely the disbelievers are ever unto you open enemies.

The correct quote - and this has nothing to do with bad translations, it just means you left out the beginning of the sentence - is :
(4,101)
And whenever you travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you shorten your prayers, if you fear that unbelievers may attack you, surely the unbelievers are to you an evident enemy

You said:
[002:193] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with All�h) and (all and every kind of) worship is for All�h (alone).

And the correct, once again COMPLETE quote is:
And fight in God's cause those who fight you, and do not transgress, surely God does not love transgressors. And kill them wherever you comeupon them and expel them from where they expelled you, as persecuting people to sway from God's religion is worse than killing. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you, then kill them, this is the recompense of unbelievers. But if they desist from unbelief then most surely God is All Forgiving, Most Merciful

Do I have to make it any clearer?

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
Blah, blah, blah, blah.....

Man, The Devil has a big mouth.

Iblis, Jakko and Kao...all you have offered aside from the snide remarks proffered to hide the fact that the God of Moses and Jesus as described in the Bible, and as shown by me, in far fewer quotes than you have provided against Islam, is more quotes. You have yet, either one of you, to vindicate the jewish and Christain God as not being as evil as that which you portray Allah. Obviously, you cannot dispute same. I knew that, and accept that.

Here is the most important aspect. The Jewish and Christian God unless s/he/it has a multi-personality complex, is the same God now as before. As the omnipotent which passed judgement some 6,000 years ago, and supposedly describes the future destruction of mankind, that God has pre-determined that those who kill and hate will not see Heaven. That means you, all three of you, for espousing your hatred toward these people, and spreading the guile in this forum and anywhere you do so. In other words, you are no better than the fanatic Muslims you preach against. Neither is the army or the commander-in-chief you back.

It doesn't matter how you portray the enemy, since as long as you do not condemn killing of any sort, you are all one with evil, his name is Satan. You will be sharing his furnace with the muslims just like you, whom you love to hate. And that is the beginning and the end of your hatefilled story.

You might like to checks thse guys out

www.Khilafah.com...


Somewhereinbetween you might want to check out there version of the Iran Contra affair and there believes about the same in Iraq.Comes close to your take.Truth is powerful but do you no the truth

God is not evil o or psychotic ‎
He gave people laws and strategies to live by they were used and a control mechanism ‎they became rituals and spawned political mayhem and nepotism corruption and did not ‎promote understanding of God.‎
There was no salvation or hope.‎
He intervened on humanities behalf and brought a new covenant and fulfilled the law.‎
After that to blind people evil was fine tuned in the guise of Islam to deceive and ‎condemn ‎
Exposing the evil and deception of Islam is not hateful .‎
That people are uncomfortable with that is irrelevant ‎

The government has a duty to defend its citizen against threats Islam is a threat and all ‎American are threatened .We are at war with Islam.‎
‎ God has declared his people to be righteous we have the right to insure for our posterity ‎the same choice, to give up the choice would be a rejection of God.‎
Islam has proven its self to not be a good neighbor and will not share the world with non ‎Muslims in a system where all are equal so we must resist and defend our selves and our ‎children.‎

Dont just post a disjointed Quran quote it needs context as best as can be provided We can see here Jihad and fighting are not spiritual struggles And arm your self at prayers
so you can see ther more Quran the better to reveal Islam leave your home invade other lands and then take over,sura 17.15

www.road-to-heaven.com...


4.94. O you who believe! When you go (to fight) in the Cause of All�h, verify (the truth), and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Isl�m): "You are not a believer"; seeking the perishable goods of the worldly life. There are much more profits and booties with All�h. Even as he is now, so were you yourselves before till All�h conferred on you His Favours (i.e. guided you to Isl�m), therefore, be cautious in discrimination. All�h is Ever Well�Aware of what you do.

4.95. Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of All�h with their wealth and their lives. All�h has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, All�h has promised good (Paradise), but All�h has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward;

4.96. Degrees of (higher) grades from Him, and Forgiveness and Mercy. And All�h is Ever Oft�Forgiving, Most Merciful.

4.97. Verily! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): "In what (condition) were you?" They reply: "We were weak and oppressed on earth." They (angels) say: "Was not the earth of All�h spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - What an evil destination!

4.98. Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way.

4,99. For these there is hope that All�h will forgive them, and All�h is Ever Oft Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

4.100. He who emigrates (from his home) in the Cause of All�h, will find on earth many dwelling places and plenty to live by. And whosoever leaves his home as an emigrant unto All�h and His Messenger, and death overtakes him, his reward is then surely incumbent upon All�h. And All�h is Ever Oft�Forgiving, Most Merciful.

4.101. And when you (Muslims) travel in the land, there is no sin on you if you shorten your Sal�t (prayer) if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you, verily, the disbelievers are ever unto you open enemies.

4.102. When you (O Messenger Muhammad ) are among them, and lead them in As-Sal�t (the prayer), let one party of them stand up [in Sal�t (prayer)] with you taking their arms with them; when they finish their prostrations, let them take their positions in the rear and let the other party come up which has not yet prayed, and let them pray with you taking all the precautions and bearing arms. Those who disbelieve wish, if you were negligent of your arms and your baggage, to attack you in a single rush, but there is no sin on you if you put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because you are ill, but take every precaution for yourselves. Verily, All�h has prepared a humiliating torment for the disbelievers.

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
God is not evil o or psychotic �
He gave people laws and strategies to live by they were used and a control mechanism �they became rituals and spawned political mayhem and nepotism corruption and did not �promote understanding of God.�
There was no salvation or hope.�
He intervened on humanities behalf and brought a new covenant and fulfilled the law.�
After that to blind people evil was fine tuned in the guise of Islam to deceive and �condemn �
Exposing the evil and deception of Islam is not hateful .�
That people are uncomfortable with that is irrelevant �

That is a very nice story, but there is no proof for it. It is all just out of your head. You say that God intervened and brought a new covenant because of corruption and political mayhem etc.
Let me complete your story. The Christians were doing good, but then the corruption, political mayhem, all that started again. God, being so merciful intervened again, and gave humanity renewed hope, in the shape of Islam. After that to blind people evil was fine tuned into Ignorance to deceive and �condemn. Exposing the evil and deception of Ignorance is not hateful. That people are uncomfortable with that is irrelevant

[edit on 14-11-2004 by babar]

Again you try to decieve it is better you dont post about islam as mor e of Islam is revealed
here we find lay in wait and kill people but dont transgress . that means do kill woman ( who would you have to rape) Children(who would you enslave) old people who are no threat and priests . then fight until yu win and it is OK to transgress against your enemy anyhow as long as they fall into the right catagory.
and everone knows the only real sin in Ilslam is to give allah a partner.remove Jesus from the equation.Wornder why that is such a big deal.?

So heres the whole turd in context.

2.190. And fight in the Way of All�h those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, All�h likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jih�d, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].

2.191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Har�m (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2.192. But if they cease, then All�h is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

2.193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with All�h) and (all and every kind of) worship is for All�h (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Z�lim�n (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Ok, you have provided a number of passages from the Quran. From what I see, there is nothing there about killing unbelievers or innocents. It says to fight in the way of God THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, but TRANSGRESS NOT THE LIMITS. What is wrong with that? Don't we all have a right to defend ourselves? Then you also quoted from a passage from Surah 4. It starts with "WHEN you go to fight in the cause of Allah" not "GO to fight". It seems a very tolerant passage. It tells that don't fight and create enemies for the sake of wealth and worldly goods. And you misunderstand the part about carrying weapons during prayer. It says that during battle, when youpray, you are allowed to have part of the congregation wait with weapons incase they are attacked. When the prayer is finished, the rest of the congregation will pray. What is wrong with that?
You also mentioned (17,15). What has this got to do with the arguement?
Also where is there any mention of raping or killing women or killing elders and children? If anything, this is condemned in the Quran.
And you say that associating anyone with God is a sin. Remove Jesus from the equation. Great, but who is willing to do that? Anyway, you misunderstand Islam's position on Christians and Jews. The are also the "believers" and "people of the book". Muslims follow the same God as they do.

OK, first of all you are utterly clueless if you think there is one correct, conclusive translation of Qur'anic verses. My Qur'an is translated by Muslims, and it is not watered down for Western eyes. I provided the links to the Qur'an along with info on who the translators are. They are authoratative and the translations are authentic. Just because the wording you found differs from mine does not mean I'm rewording the verse.

Verse 004.101 reads And when you (Muslims) travel in the land, there is no sin on you if you shorten your Sal�t (prayer) if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you, verily, the disbelievers are ever unto you open enemies.

God is certainly not leaving the possibility open that the disbelievers will just leave the Muslims alone. He's saying not to trust the disbelievers, for they are EVER UNTO YOU open enemies.

Second, I can prove the context by which I quote them is correct by referencing them with the hadith. That's what the hadith is for. Follow the bouncing ball:

Allah says:

[002.193] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with All�h) and (all and every kind of) worship is for All�h (alone).

Allah's apostle says:

[Sahih Bukhari 001.008.387] "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

[Sahih Muslim 001.0033] I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

Allah says:

[004.080] He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed All�h, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a watcher over them.

It doesn't get any clearer than that. God commanded Muhammad to fight non-believers until they convert or they die (there's no other way for any and all religion to be Allah's). Muhammad agrees conclusively in not one but TWO authoratative hadiths, Sahih Muslim and Bukhari. What was good for the prophet is good for Muslims for all time. That's what the hadith is there for. And I could do that all day with all the other verses I quoted. The hadith is like cliffnotes for the Qur'an.

I'm sorry this interferes with your tolerant, multicultural sensabilities but I'm not here to sedate you with happiness I'm here to wake you up to the truth. After 1400 years of jihad without end, it's about time we start facing hard reality.

Look Ibn, they took the blue pill and they want to wake up in there beds and
and tell themselves whatever they want

Ibn Iblis, I totally agree with you!

Americans, and anyone for that matter should at the very least be aware of what the teaching of Islam is!

Very interesting thread!

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
It doesn't matter how you portray the enemy, since as long as you do not condemn killing of any sort, you are all one with evil, his name is Satan. You will be sharing his furnace with the muslims just like you, whom you love to hate. And that is the beginning and the end of your hatefilled story.

Now honestly how long will it take before the actual message reaches the braincells it's supposed to reach?
This is not about hate! This is not about portraying anyone in a special way, and it is surely not about spreading fear or anger.

This is about some of us being ALARMED by the effects of a religion on our world. We do not hate anyone, neither do we want to start a witchhunt, we simply have EYES in our head and see what is going on in this world, and the suffering and ignorance as result of the islamic religion.

Does this mean we can be racists? No.
Does this mean we have to forbid a religion? No.
Does this mean all muslims are wrong? No.
Does this mean the Islamic religion needs special attention in laws and regulations to prevent extremism? Yes!

Your attitude is dangerous for everyone, and many share your flawed hysterical way of not wanting to talk about a very obvious problem.
If we can not even START to talk about this with people like you around, how will we ever be able to FIX this and take away the anger and fear that many people have towards ALL muslims once and for all??


[edit on 14-11-2004 by Jakko]

Someone tell SomewhereinBetween that I have her on ignore until she lays off the crack.

Thanks in advance.

wow, what a thread this is turning out to be. Problem is you cannot convince any other member to 'hate' islam however much truth there is to quote from. Add to that, there is a really amature brit toss-pot member here who proposes to kill ALL those who are muslim! What difference does he have to those very fanatics he opposes?!

At the end of the day it all comes down to the individual.

You cannot generalize the religion as a whole. Lets face it. Islam is a billion strong. Those who oppose it cannot just show contradicting facts from the Qur'an and expect muslims suddenly to realize their religion proposes evil. Sure, you will get christian, jew, hindu converts to hate islam. But Muslims themselves are told to beware of such people. Of Chrisitans and Jews who will oppose Islam at the end stages of civilisation. And this they believe will be the toughest time of their religion. They however also believe in the end, Islam will prevail.

What needs to happen, is tolerance, fairness, justice between all individuals. Some members here will say, but are muslims willing to be tolerant? To answer that you need to ask whether the west (mainly christian's) policies have been fair and just to the middle east people? There are arab christians who lived in harmony with their muslim brethren for centuries. The Iranian Jews do not find any discrimination with their Iranian compatriots. It's the Zionist state, Israel, that they hate. Why? Because they see it an oppression and occupationist state.

Muslims are people just like the rest of us. They seek justice and fairness and fight where they see injustice. They are not any different. You can see a lot of Indian muslims (a majority) being very tolerant to their peers. The Indian President, a muslim, also prays at a hindu temple! I read a post about denigrating muslims due to their lack of tolerance towards other religions(i.e, it's your head if you talk of other religions, or speak of freedom in Iraq). These are due to the mentality of the arab populace. Not due to the religon of Islam. I believe, if you install a successful democracy in the middle east and the population learns that they can be independant and have a voice, instead of following the muslim cleric's advice, then a lot of problems can be resolved. At the present moment, majority if not all muslim states are autocratic, totalitarian regimes and not democratic. Hence the people do not have a voice to express for their opinion.

It's a cultural problem not a religeous problem.

You were doing pretty well until the end .Islam Is about the preminant laws of allah and muslims right to spread them to the world.
There ideology Is incompatible with what we enjoy here in America.
We here in the west will succum to islam as we will bend over backwards to accomadted all ideas thinks democract can survive anything .Its a shame .
and It makes me hope there is no other life in the universe becayse the muslims claim all that as holy land as well.

Society goes on telling us "this is right and that's wrong" that is conscience.It becomes ingrained,implnted in you.You go on repeating it.

That is worthless.That is not the real thing.the real thing is your own consciousness.It carries no ready made answers about what is wrong or right,no.but immediately;in whatever situation arises,it gives you light-you know immediately what to do...

The real thing is not a path.The real thing is the authenticity of the seeker.
If you are sincere and honest , authentic and true,then each path leads to the Goal...

Ibn Iblis

Vinnie Paz(Ikon the Verbal Hologram) from Jedi Mind Tricks claims to be Muslim.


Dumb ass.




[edit on 9-5-2005 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by cstyle226
If that's how you feel, then let the Jihad continue.

Is it not true? What exactly does your avatar means?.... There is an ak47, there is the world and the book is probably the Quran... The meaning i get from that avatar, which is full of simbology is that you will spread Islam to the world by force.... Otherwise why have an avatar which has a weapon, and supposedly a book of peace, as some call it, together over the Earth?...

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Muaddib]