Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys


I would surmise that deep down, many of them might even have cheered a little inside.

What an odd (offensive too) thing to say.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


Like I said, the elephant in the room. Nobody wants to accept its there, even though you can't miss it. This would not have happened if the man victim was black or asian. Bigotry exists everywhere and if you're one of the ones ignoring that fact, burying your head in the sand instead, then you are part of the problem.

This was a white man wearing a "Help for Heroes" tshirt. Those "heroes" are state sanctioned murderers in the eyes of many. Yes, this was a political statement, you are at least correct in this. The message is that some are tired of white folk thinking they can take what they like from whoever they want and expect to be praised for it.

*snip*
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Originally posted by whatzshaken
reply to post by aarys

 

this was no false flag inside job, this was an act against they gov't in every way possible. this was not in their(gov't) play book, lets say, unprepared, unscripted. It took the police 20 minutes to get there.

edit on 23-5-2013 by whatzshaken because: (no reason given)

I have to agree with this.

The usual false flag operation has a certain script that they follow.

1) Police always get praise for their prompt and speedy response. That's because they know in advance what's to happen and are prepared. And the event serves to praise up the various government departments for their good job, and hence "certify" to the people why they need to continue to put their trust in the government.

2) There's usually a "drill" right about the time of the event. This drill acts as a cover, should anything go wrong, and some unexpected thing interfere with the smooth operation of the false flag plan.

3) The perpetrators are usually shot dead at the scene, or terminated one way or another soon after, so that they can't testify to what they might know. Or, they are whisked away to some facility like Guantanamo to be kept silent permanently, because what they say might threaten the National Security, if people knew. False flag always requires total control over the succeeding events, because it is necessary to continue to "steer" the operation in the direction intended, and not allow any deviations from the plan. Often times, "mysterious deaths" follow in the months and years after, all connected with the false flag, as possible witnesses and potential rats are eliminated.

4) There's usually "a flood of official reports" that drown out and bury the bystander witness reports, making it hard for the viewers and readers to find and determine the truth for themselves. You usually have to do a lot of digging to find those few alternative reports that reveal something the news is not covering. But, in this case, we seem to be getting the raw footage and the real deal.

So, all these things indicate the government was totally unprepared for this one.

They don't appear to have any backup plan for it. Hence, they are labeling this "crazy individuals" ,"madmen", etc..not using terms like "terrorist" or "enemy combatants", because they have no prepared script to profit politically from the event. They were caught unawares.

reply to post by starchild10


I do not think it is odd at all. Offensive? Perhaps to some. But I'm willing to bet that I'm right. The mainstream media excuses murder every single day, they cheer for it. They call it patriotism. Deny it if you like, but its two sides of the same coin.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


It is striking, isn't it?

This man, despite the barbarism of his deed, still seems reasonable enough for people to feel confident in approaching him.

He went up to a guy with a cell phone camera and "rationally" defended himself. I'm sure he was doing the same right after the killing, yelling that he was merely "showing" people what was happening in Muslim countries. It was as if he were conducting a social experiment.

If it weren't for this surface "decency", I doubt anyone would have approached him.

Thanks for correcting me about the 3 white women.

Listen up

I'm going to make this perfectly clear. If you can't be a part of modern society, and want to spread your hatred on ATS, then you can expect one of three things to happen.

Your post will be deleted.
You will be post banned.
Your account will be terminated without warning.

Given that we've made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions now, in this and other threads, that we don't want to read your shallow bigotry on ATS, you can expect more of a move to the last two.

Take your racism elsewhere.

Originally posted by McCool
This comes across as being staged to me

I personally found it strange how he went and spoke to the camera afterwards, as though he was adding insult to injury. I'm not saying it was planned, but when I first saw him bragging to the camera it made me wonder if the TPTB are just trying to get some kind of turmoil started (race riots etc, as an excuse to enact martial law). Most people would have fled the scene in a flash, but for some odd reason he seemed to think staying in the area and trolling on camera would be a good idea

Originally posted by Astrocyte
reply to post by FreedomEntered

 

It is striking, isn't it?

This man, despite the barbarism of his deed, still seems reasonable enough for people to feel confident in approaching him.

He went up to a guy with a cell phone camera and "rationally" defended himself. I'm sure he was doing the same right after the killing, yelling that he was merely "showing" people what was happening in Muslim countries. It was as if he were conducting a social experiment.

If it weren't for this surface "decency", I doubt anyone would have approached him.
:

Maybe he is that far gone that he does not see his act as barbaric-he may have been practicing on animals for years for all we know.That as well as his warped religious beliefs.
Hence his ability to attempt to defend his actions.

Makes me think they both should spend the rest of their lives in Broadmoor.
That should be worse than hell for them,to be treated as the pychopaths that they are instead of martyrdom for some deluded belief system.

reply to post by Xaphan


I think they stayed because one way or another they were waiting for the police and knew they would be arrested or shot. The police took their time (14 -20 mins from reports) and in this time people started filming. Most people have the ability to film from thier phones these days.

As for the trolley woman who walked past, she may not have seen or understood what happened entirely and just wanted to get home. She might even have forgot her glasses and had no idea the guy was holding bloodied weapons until she got up close!

Also people talking about the white women who talked to the attackers, at least one of them appears to be mixed race. Maybe they all comfortable talking to the attacker as he had said women were allowed near the body and apologised for women seeing the incident.

Both Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce said that Europe would be taken over by Islam, and that pockets of the left over minority Europeans, along with Christianity, would go to war with European Islam.

Over the last 10 years, I've literall witnessed us getting closer and closer to this.

Especially my friends from UK keep telling me of pockets/blocks of Islamic neighborhoods where the English folks avoid at all cost, that just keep growing larger and larger, and want sharia, and keep starting problems, and protests, and all the Fires and craziness going on in Sweden, France, etc.....

Everyday we keep getting closer and closer to Nostradamus/Cayce predictions the way I see it. Third World Fundamental Dogmatic Islamic thinking is most definitely to blame, I don't see how anyone can convince anyone else that it's not to blame

Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but the BBC just said that 2 more people have been arrested in connection with incident, and, they also said that the security forces have known about these people for some time.

Seems strange to me that the security forces would know about potential terrorists and yet do nothing about them, just let them wander about. What are they waiting for, something bad to happen and then act.

How many other security risks do they know about and are free in the community ?

Hi, I've been reading too many posts with a certain milquetoast attitude, so my response to yours comes after reading too many..

I'm in the US but I think our countries are both objects of hatred by some because they believe our countries wronged them.

US got rid of the raping, murdering, sons of Hussein and their tyrant father, spent tons of taxpayer money in the Iraqi war and didn't ask for 1 barrel of oil from a very,very rich country. How are Christians in Iraq treated? Are there still suicide bombers in Iraq? YES

The Taliban had their radical, oppressive jack boots on the necks of Afghanis and woman were treated worse than garbage.

There are groups in the ME who enslaved, tortured, raped, and murdered their own before the US and UK were in Iraq and Afghanistan.

See, I'm not saying we're perfect but people like the guy in the video come to the West...maybe they work..maybe they don't. They receive aid (on the dole) and public housing and curse Western ways while sucking on the government teet. Why come to the West to begin with if you hate it so much? The murderer in the video said we're stopping them from having Sharia Law. I don't care if they practice Sharia Law, just not in my country. Go back to your land and do whatever you want. I won't force you to become a Christian and don't force your ways on me. But, there's the difference. Their book tells them that being violent towards the infidel is acceptable. They do not hide the fact that they want Islam to dominate...by force if the West doesn't bow willingly.

Regarding those who say the murderer doesn't look Muslim: What does a religion look like? Did the Tsarnaev brothers look Muslim? To those of you who accused others of racism but say the knife wielding coward didn't look Muslim...didn't you just engage in profiling?

The radicals have made their intentions very clear over and over again. The man with the bloody hands told the person filming to get rid of the gov't...your PM won't be caught on the streets when they start busting their guns but the regular citizens will. See, he's admitting that he's not going for the politicians but the regular people who are going about their lives. They don't care. And having a milquetoast attitude does not bode well. What would I do? Deport all until things are sorted out and we know who our friends are. That's not racist and it's not Nazism. I said deport, not pack them into cattle cars, send them to concentration camps and kill them. But the radicals who have killed the "infidel" and threatened death to the West over and over...just who acts like Nazis?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to live. The radicals may glorify suicide and believe it perfectly fine to send their babies on suicide missions, but I don't. As imperfect as the West is (the world is imperfect), we're more about building than destroying.

edit on 23-5-2013 by clearlyme because: correction

Your response to me is one sided and flawed. Secondly you are from the United States so you do not live in this country and I imagine you do not live within a large Muslim population. I on the other hand do.

I'd like to ask you some questions:

Do you have any or have you ever had any Muslim friends? And I mean friends, not just a vague passing acquaintance a long while ago.

Today I actually had lunch with an old friend. He's a Muslim - and I'm not - so why didn't he try to kill me. We've been friends for years and he's never made an attempt to kill me. Why not? I actually work with a Muslim individual currently and he hasn't tried to kill me. Why not? I previously worked with a Muslim guy in a past job and he never tried to kill me and he was much bigger than me and probably could have crushed me like a bug if he wished.

The same justification for this vile murder was used by the Boston bombers to try to legitimize their actions. It takes a braver person to look in the mirror and maybe take a look at things going on in the world by our countries, instead of constantly wondering why such things happen. To suggest it's because these people are "evil" is a shallow answer which does not look at the true situation. To me it's the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.

The fact Saddam Hussein was removed from power is utterly irrelevant and is poor compensation for the deaths of tens of thousands and a country being left in a shambles, besides the fact that the war was based on lies. We can remove one tyrant but continue to support others in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Infact we're quite happy to sell them weapons so they can mow down their own citizens in the street for protesting for their rights and free speech.

The bombing attacks in London in 2005 happened curiously enough two years after we'd invaded Iraq. Surely this cannot be coincidence...

If we examine U.S. drone policy in the Middle East we'll find a deliberate policy of striking families and individuals without much concern about establishing who these people are. We also then have a sickening "double-tap" strategy where not only are people blown up, but then rescuers who come to try and help are then deliberately blown up as well. How is that barbarity any different than what those two men did to that young man on the streets of London? The only difference is in the magnitude.

When brown people are getting blown up in far away lands nobody seems to care. When a woman in Afghanistan had to collect up the bloody pieces of flesh which had once been her daughter, because her house had been turned into a crater by American B-52's, I'm sure she was as distraught and traumatized as the witnesses to this attack in London were, as well as his family. The name of the young man who was killed was Lee Rigby. Fortunately we know his name, sadly those in Afghanistan and Iraq are usually nameless or just "militants." But they were human beings too.

So please, voice your hypocritical, myopic views (as is your right), but at least try to see the other side of the coin. If not this will be a never ending cycle of violence.

reply to post by shai hulud


want to clarify what you are insinuating by "importing garbage" please?

otherwise pump those breaks buddy

reply to post by bigyin

Seems strange to me that the security forces would know about potential terrorists and yet do nothing about them, just let them wander about.

If they hadn't actually committed a crime, yet then they can't just be arrested.

Unless we just start arresting Muslims because they might at some future point become radicalised and do something or just because they seem suspicious.

Originally posted by whatzshaken

I have plenty of respect. My brother was killed in afghan 2009 Cpl Nick Bulger Canadian 3rd batllion Princess Patrica.
Note, he was security for the brigade general in charge of the troops, so I know

I have respect thank you. However if you read any of the 60 pages, the topics that are being discussed is how these muslims are terrorist. well according to these muslims, govt and soliders are terrorist. Its called perspective. one man freedom fighter is another's terrorist. You are entitled to your opinion and emotions.

Is it sad he had to die yes, but his story is like many world wide.

I am sorry you lost your brother.

Mine came back alive after the war back in the 90's. He also killed people and that doesn't make him a bad person or a reason for someone to slaughter him on the street. If he would've died in combat - alas - that's something they signed up for but not this.

I did read all of this thread and I am appalled by the apologetic - no cohones crowd in here. There is not one excuse in the world for murdering this man on the streets of London, not one. His story is unlike any other. Sadly we don't agree on this one.

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
reply to post by FreedomEntered

 

Like I said, the elephant in the room. Nobody wants to accept its there, even though you can't miss it. This would not have happened if the man victim was black or asian. Bigotry exists everywhere and if you're one of the ones ignoring that fact, burying your head in the sand instead, then you are part of the problem.

This was a white man wearing a "Help for Heroes" tshirt. Those "heroes" are state sanctioned murderers in the eyes of many. Yes, this was a political statement, you are at least correct in this. The message is that some are tired of white folk thinking they can take what they like from whoever they want and expect to be praised for it.

If you cannot see that, they you are either blind, ignorant, or both.

I oppose the war as do you because ordinary working class blokes are suffering. However is it right to allow such murderers to be done in our high street. Where was the geneva convention?

Could these people have even protested in Saudi Arabia ( which finances a lot of fundamentalism)?

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by bigyin

 

Seems strange to me that the security forces would know about potential terrorists and yet do nothing about them, just let them wander about.

If they hadn't actually committed a crime, yet then they can't just be arrested.

Unless we just start arresting Muslims because they might at some future point become radicalised and do something or just because they seem suspicious.

I don't know how it works, but if somebody, and they don't have to be muslim or black, just anyone, is on the radar of MI5 or MI6 then I would imagine their emails and texts would be monitored and their phone calls listened to and their web browsing spied on.

Or do they put people on a watch list and do nothing more ?

reply to post by bigyin

I don't know how it works, but if somebody, and they don't have to be muslim or black, just anyone, is on the radar of MI5 or MI6 then I would imagine their emails and texts would be monitored and their phone calls listened to and their web browsing spied on.

Yes, you have a point.

I don't know the day to day operations of the intelligence services really.