Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

reply to post by Power_Semi


It's obvious you misunderstood the point of my post so I'll spell it out for you:

I brought up the Crusades, Nazi's, and the Americans putting American citizens in internment camps as examples of barbaric and ignorant behavior.

Today (or whenever this occurred) two allegedly muslim people committed a heinous crime. This warrants the police and other authories to investigate and punish those responsible. Taking sweeping action against Islam or Muslims as a whole in response to this would be BARBARIC.

reply to post by Freeborn


Yes, I understand that foreign policy has shaped a lot of this, allowed radical Islam into so many of their youth. With the addition of isolation in small communities in western society, with the addition of poverty and low employment, it is the perfect breeding ground of extremism.

But what to do? I find the damage is already done and no amount of talking or understanding will solve it. You have generations of youth who have already bought into the extremism. These youth need to understand they can have their culture, practice whatever religion they want, but still have to accept the culture of the country they are living in.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

They do help in the apprehension of criminals involved in activities such as violent street crime. But yes I think you are correct they don't seem to work as a preventative measure.

And, seeing as I was saying they'd be useful for ascertaining exactly what happened here, it's a strawman argument anyway.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


73 different sects in Islam according to this site: 73 divisions in Islam

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

They don't always stop them, but as is evidenced by their effect in most UK fotball stadiums, they can cut down on violent elements. As to them being ineffective as evidence after the fact, that is just a problem of lack of investment. The tech is there to record incidents in perfect clarity.

I think London is still the most videotaped city in the world. But yet the crime hasnt stopped. Studies have been done in many cities/towns aroound the world, the evidence simply states, they dont work.
How they do work is that they get us used to being watched all the time.

It's also one of the most densely populated areas in the world, so violent crime is never going to come to a complete stop. The laws of probability alone guarantee there is going to be some act of violence in London every evening, and that it is likely to be in a public place. Fortunately, they aren't all as horrific as this one.

I live in Edmonton, North London. I know what London is like, kids are killing each other all the time here. And I know that some people dont give a fck that they are being watched.

Originally posted by Power_Semi

What muslim haters wanting to attack them? What are you talking about?

When has this ever happened?

This was 2 muslims attacking a white British soldier, and some of you retards want to turn it around and somehow make out that they're the victims of violence from us when it hasn't even happened.

Wow chill there. There's already been reports of bricks thrown at mosques right?

All I'm saying is that most Muslims will not only be shocked by this news but will also hope that people will not want to attack them in retaliation. People are acting like muslims should get kicked out, well this is hurting muslims too. We are in this together.

Retards? Real classy.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Even a broken clock is right twice a day. And a broken clock has more intelligence.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Lets be straight here... how many different Religions are there in 'Islam'? Or is there just one Religion?

The Religion of peace? If it is the Religion of peace, where do the other sects of 'Islam' come from and why do they appear? Also, why do they also say they are of the Religion of Islam?

There can be only one.

The word "Peace" is a euphemism for "Death".

That's why when someone dies, they say "Rest in Peace, Brother".

Nobody tells you rest in peace, when you're alive, or about to go out and party.

That's why "The Peacemaker" is a rocket with a warhead attached.

Those who have found peace, are dead.

The bringer of peace, is the bringer of death.

-- 1 Thessalonians 5:3

reply to post by Rocker2013

I hate to tell you this, but I was "friends" with a serving UK soldier on FB, and I have seen his support of the EDL, and all of his serving friends too

So one serving British soldier is representative of ALL British soldiers but conveniently every single Muslim terrorist is NOT representative of ALL Muslims.

I'm friends with quite a few serving and ex Service men and women in 'real life' and I can assure you that not all UK soldiers are racist or EDL supporters.

I wonder how many of those condemning EDL, (and NO, I do not agree with quite a lot of what they say and the majority of them are nothing but wannabe's and never were's), expressed any sort of digust or concern at those recently convicted of planning to bomb an EDL march in Dewesbury and who were also carrying various knives, machete's and shotguns just like those who carried out today's brutal murder.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Rocker2013

 

I don't want to pre-empt anything but if this does indeed turn out to be an attack by some random Muslim extremists on a cadet because they were offended by his 'Help For Heroes' t-shirt do you really expect people to simply sit back and accept it, yet again?

What would you have people do if this is the case?

I'm not advocating reciprocal attacks on random, innocent Muslims, and never will I hope, but don't you expect people to be just a little bit pissed off?

The best any of us can do is wait until more facts are revealed before we start talking about conspiracies or revenge attacks etc.

That's because you're not supposed to get pissed off or angry about injustice. You are just supposed to bury your head in the sand and be a loyal little subject.

Just let the govt make decisions for you they will keep you safe from all the evil, violent people in the world.

Too bad this poor man didnt have some way to defend himself. Maybe his children would still have a father and his wife would still have a husband or his parents would still have a son. Just maybe if this young man had some way to defend himself from armed attackers he would still be alive.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Bloody el. I give up.

73 sects of 'Islam'

Well.... I'm now wondering how many are 'Peaceful' and how many are not peaceful sects?

Also I do know that we have 'Right Wing' Fanatics over here too and more coming from Eastern Europe! I can only see things getting worse.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


Its not even a sect as such its more of a twisted ideology read up on Quibitsim (I may have misspelled that)

reply to post by OneManArmy


Well, quite obviously, those people are idiots and are on a direct pathway to a prison cell. If Sainsbury's said they would be switching off all their security cameras and passing on the costs of shoplifting to the customer, because schizophrenic kleptomaniacs didn't give a crap about being watched, would you accept that as a valid argument?i

reply to post by MidnightTide


This is where I must respectfully disagree. Cultural assimilation was indeed something that was expected of immigrant communities in the UK some decades ago.

I'd say that to a large extent, it worked. Turkish people, for example, form a predominantly Muslim community, but they've integrated almost seamlessly. It's actually awesome living next to so many communities like that.

Where did we go wrong here? I don't think it's "politically incorrect" to expect a certain level of integration for long-term immigrants. Of course we would, why else should they want to stay here for so long, right?

Besides, that term's lost all its meaning now. It's been twisted and rinsed by the right for so long now, but that's off-topic.

It comes down to a lackadaisical implementation of Blair's communitarianism idea. New Labour's motivation to do the damn thing right was somewhere else, it seems. In other words, they just didn't care.

reply to post by Ramcheck


Thats the only thing posted this evening that hasn't depressed me in one way or other.

Its good to see the moderates finding their critical voice and using it in an unequivocal manner. Its very much needed this evening.

Originally posted by Nicks87

Too bad this poor man didnt have some way to defend himself. Maybe his children would still have a father and his wife would still have a husband or his parents would still have a son. Just maybe if this young man had some way to defend himself from armed attackers he would still be alive.

Yes, I'm sure a firearm would be a great defence against a car mounting the pavement and driving into you.

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


All I can say is, like other religions who have multiple branches, they(the different sects) all think the others have gotten the original message wrong, which in my mind makes them ALL wrong. But that's for another thread.

The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially.

If it is, then it would be the first such incident leading to a death of someone other than the perpetrator since the 2005 London suicide bombings.

So the first task for ministers and officials is to assess the threat to the public - are other attacks planned?

The official terrorism threat level is currently "substantial", which means an attack is "a strong possibility".

If officials raise the level to "severe", that would mean they fear another attack is highly likely.

If the victim is indeed a soldier, then that will be no surprise to security chiefs.

Jihadists believe they are at war with the military because of its role in the Afghanistan conflict and elsewhere.

The UK has previously uncovered three plots linked to possible terror attacks on the armed forces, including a cell in 2007 which planned to kidnap and behead a soldier in an Iraq-style hostage video.

BBC

Really - if this was an attack planned for fear - it has to be recognised as being politically motivated, It's not religion that's behind this - extremist religion (of an persuasion, Christian, Jew or Muslim) is just the means of getting a gang of people together.

reply t[o post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

EDL are utter scum they are just as low in my view as the terrorists, I find their views utterly repulsive and disgusting

Sure, most of them are dickheads but comparing them to terrorists is well wide of the mark.

How many people have EDL blown up?
How people's head's have EDL chopped off?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply t[o post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

EDL are utter scum they are just as low in my view as the terrorists, I find their views utterly repulsive and disgusting

Sure, most of them are dickheads but comparing them to terrorists is well wide of the mark.

How many people have EDL blown up?
How people's head's have EDL chopped off?

The edl do fit the uk definition of terrorism.
The use or threat of action designed to influence the government or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public, or a section of the public; made for the purposes of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause; and it involves or causes:

serious violence against a person;
serious damage to a property;
a threat to a person's life;
a serious risk to the health and safety of the public; or
serious interference with or disruption to an electronic system.

www.mi5.gov.uk...