VOTE: 3,893 Extra Votes For Bush In Suburban Columbus, Ohio County (only 638 voted)

Originally posted by esdad71
If I have to hear one more person state that the exit polls were different from the true polls, i will die laughing. Do you actually put more faith in exit polls than our current voting system?

Thank you. I'd actually like to see a few demographics of who were "polled" as they were "exiting".

Also, I've noticed one thing in particular... When I ask people who they voted for... Kerry supporters happily answer while most Bush supporters say "that's a private issue". Most of my entire family on both sides voted for Bush, yet will not discuss that fact with anyone outside of the family. I'm not that well versed in exit poll strategy, but something tells me that they can't force you to answer. Maybe that's a reason that exit polls showed both Gore and Kerry as the victors.

This is basically a conspiracy site anyway. If you all are "conspiracy theorists" then how could you ever have faith in ANY of the elections? What difference does it make in the long run? Seems like most people here agree that it's corporations that have control of the political system here regardless of who the president is. Without a full blown revolution in this country, we've already crossed the point of no return as far as bringing any real change is concerned. Seems pointless to sit around and argue if no one is willing to go and DO something about it lol.

Long before electronic voting and Diebold were in mainstream consideration, Brazil implemented an electronic voting system. One that was a massive achievement, as all Brazilians over the age of 18 is REQUIRED to vote. Seriously, if you don't you can be arrested. Before my Husband came to the US he had to obtain permission to be excused from voting.

My point is, the problems described in this tread are not new unforeseen dilemmas, but rather well documented and should have been expected. Well the US was warned to some degree as described in this following article about the Diebold code being downloaded and decoded with ease. These results originally made its way to US media in July 2003.

verifiedvoting.org...

From above article
Professor Rubin's report called the Diebold system "far below even the most minimal security standards applicable in other contexts", and said that reliance on electronic voting systems such as Diebold's "places our very democracy at risk".

In regards to learning from another�s mistake before repeating it, apparently the US believes itself above this maxim. As Brazil has made several revisions to their system in order to be able to verify its accuracy. Regardless of these revisions ultimate success or failure, it is interesting to me that the US feels the need to start from drawing board and then act surprised when confronted with the same type of problems.

From Professor Pedro A. D. Rezende *
Dept. of Computer Science - University of Brasilia

January 2002 Law 10.408 was so enacted, under the constitutional provision that elections for public offices in Brazil be regulated by federal legislation [2]. Law 10.408 set voter verifiability in a manner that each voter was to see his or her choices printed on a slip of paper, behind a transparent window.

When confirmed, the vote slip would be inserted into a sealed bag, without voter interference (vv), and the bag properly handled for later audit against electronic tally by sampling, or for possible recount. According to the original bill, this print-show-collect mechanism was to be added on to all DRE machines in use, from the following election onward. The random choice of which machines were to be sampled, for regular auditing purposes, was to be made after the election time period, as would be in any meaningful audit measure of this sort.

See full article, which describes this and other alternatives as well:


www.cic.unb.br...


[edit on 5-11-2004 by melissaissim]

Someone mention exit polls?
Found this:

According to at least three sources, one inside the Kerry campaign, and two outside of it, but with ties to senior Kerry advisers, some of the "early polling numbers" were in fact direct reports from Kerry campaign or Democratic Party operatives on the ground in such critical states as Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, and Wisconsin. According to a Washington lobbyist with knowledge of the numbers, the numbers were packaged together so as to appear to be exit poll results. They were then scrubbed through several sources to land in the lap of sympathetic bloggers who these operatives believed would put the numbers up with little question.

EXIT POLLSTERGEIST

Amazing that no one mentioned that the great Zogby was and is now debunked.

Found this also:
How did exit polls start avalanche of inaccuracy?

Exit polls give:

Exit polls are a wonderful advantage in providing context and texture

And yet, they were used by the news outlets to proclaim that Gore had one, and this election, they were used by internet bloggers as indicating that Mr. Kerry would win by a landslide. It was the press that again did the disjustice of over-hyping this. The jest of this is that what once may have held true, does not necessarily hold true at a later time or date.
This years 'early' fabulous numbers for Mr. Kerry were probaly because the exit polls were directed at two things: women and the urban centers (city's) --- both were heavy for Kerry. They did not incorporate the suburban or rural vote...the mistake and why the exit polls were off this year.

Hey, maybe someone needs to talk to CBS's Warren Mitofsky about those exit polls?



seekerof

[edit on 5-11-2004 by Seekerof]

Elections over. No conspiracy nothing. Just another election. Leave it alone. Bush won and you anti-Patriot pieces of poo poo can go to H E Double hockey sticks.

Originally posted by sardion2000
I said this before and I'll say this again, we are all gonna be very shock when the freedom of information request for ALL of the US's voting records(done be Blackboxvoting.org) turns up massive irregularities all over(due to buggy E-Voting Software). Whether it be irregulatities that benefit Bush or Kerry this election needs to be validated either way.(just so we all can have peace of mind)

[edit on 5-11-2004 by sardion2000]

If it benefits Bush (of course it does) then what??? This may be the beginning of the civil war prophesies talk about. who knows.

Elections over. No conspiracy nothing. Just another election. Leave it alone. Bush won and you anti-Patriot pieces of poo poo can go to H E Double hockey sticks.

Wow Vampire! Were anti-patriotic because we dare question our electoral process?

If you care about this country you would want an accurate system.

You are the type of idiot that makes Republicans look worse than usual!

CNN is now covering the story:

In the Ohio precinct in question, the votes are recorded onto a cartridge. On one of the three machines at that precinct, a malfunction occurred in the recording process, Damschroder said. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred.

The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine.

Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.

Several things:
Why can't they explain what happened?
Did the county commissioner votes get recorded as votes for Bush?
At the very least, it does appear that the machines can be audited to verify tallies.

CNN

B.

there were enough bogus addresses in milwaukee to swing the state for the dems. you might wanna talk about that too.

www.jsonline.com...

[edit on 11/5/04 by spangbr]

[edit on 11/5/04 by spangbr]

Originally posted by pbauer

Originally posted by pbauer (image not quoted)

How utterly juvenile to bring typical knee-jerk partisan rhetoric into this. This issue effects us all, no matter who you or I voted for. Errors in an election process, especially on machines closed to public audit, are intolerable no matter who wins or loses. Please make an honest attempt understand the intent of covering this story, as well as our efforts to keep ATSNN threads on a more mature level.

Did you just quote yourself pbauer? Wow, yor're quite the class act.

were the "prosecution" to explore the losing side: Senator Kerry's votes, one would find the same thing.

It is rather the norm to have the partys employ these tactics Democratic or Repubican. So, I'd appreciate seeing this report capturing the Democratic harvest as well.

Thank you

E

One of the many great things about the US is that when the candidates lose they accept their loss gracefully. No more public animosity towards the other whether they were cheated or not.

For the majority of US politicians, I feel that they always have the best interest of their nation first and personal interests a far second.

Other countries can't say that. Losing politicians there drag the public to rally for their cause of wanting to be in power dividing their nation in the process.

Be proud that you're living in such a country. I'm not pro-Bush or anything like that, I just want the US citizens here to know that you people are living in such a blessed country.

[edit on 6-11-2004 by Unnamed_One]

Originally posted by Unnamed_One
For the majority of US politicians, I feel that they always have the best interest of their nation first and personal interests a far second.

Considering my options, I'm quite pleased to have been born and raised in the US. However, I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. IMHO, most politicians around the world (even here) are egomaniacs with their highest priority being personal gain of some sort. This is part of what's wrong with our system. There's too much to be gained from even a single term as president of the US. I think that even the slightest corruption should be viewed as treason. That MIGHT fix a few things.

As more and more reports simular to this come in, tell me Americans, do you still think your vote counts?...

People, just accept it, Bush is the leader, the American people love a real leader.

Bush will lead America where no other president did. He will position America as the world leader and will let us control all markets, resulting in an incredible prosperity for all of us.

The rest of the world does not care about us, so why should we care about others? This is the message and I am happy that the majority of Americans understand it.

Originally posted by WisdomMaster This is the message and I am happy that the majority of Americans understand it.

51% is hardly a majority. I think the issue is getting muddied by knee-jerk reactions to this idea of potential vote tampering. Such "tampering" could be purposeful, or it could be accidental through software error. Either way, a republic that casts votes for their national leader needs to examine the process if there are rumors of error. (and keep that important but subtle difference in mind... the US is a "republic" not a pure democracy) I hold no illustion that uncovering the possibility massive and wide spreas error or fraud will recall the election... far from it. The intent is that, if error or fraud is discovered, it can be prevented in the next national election. It really is that simple.

have the great ATS'ers been blinded by partisianship??? it would seem to be....... what happened to deny ignorance...this issue is about much more than 'bush won, stop whinning, or 'bush cheated'....once again, it is a fundemantal issue...the American election proccess.

as SO has reminded us..this is a proccess that is not open to public audit...where the machines hacked?? was there an unscrupulis election worker or public official??? can we be sure of the 'real' vote anymore. it is quit obvious that the whole AMERICAN election/political process cannot function truthfull, accurately and objectivly. once agaiin, we have another election that as shown this. what is it gunna take...a shovel up side the head before the sheople see this????

and now i qoute that i have grown fond of.......
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall
grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it,
or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. " - Abraham Lincoln

we have fallen so far away from that statement that is is beyond contemplation anymore.

so....this thread has sort of shown that even the great ATS'ers have fallen victom to the game being played on all of you...ignore that facts of the matter and keep bickering about who's better, who won, who gets what.......

Agreed...if the electronic voting system has caused gross errors then it needs to be uncovered and corrected, or the whole electronic system done away with.

In other news, we were paper here - I guess after we get through with the electronic system we can address the gross errors that occur in a paper system - errors that have always been there.

Major potential for kicked-out ballots here due to the format of the ballot and confusion that could arise due to that format.

Sometimes I think they turn the issue of ballot lay-out over chimps or pre-schoolers...I'm not sure which.