Report: Muslim cleric invited to pray over fallen SEALs damns them during service

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You should get your husband to listen to the video, and tell you himself what is being said then

I may do this, but then if he decides not to divulge the more caustic parts in order to not upset me, then what?

I'm just not quite sure what to say to that. Do you feel that your own husband will or will not be honest with you? Honesty isn't always pretty, but it IS always necessary.

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

Once you compared Mafia with Islam. You lost ALL credibility.

LOL.

I will happily compare Islamic radicals with the Mafia.

In fact, at least you can talk to the Mafia.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu

You seriously think they are dangerous enough to justify your knee-jerk reaction demonizing all Muslims?

I can understand your attitude, in light of the fact that you are marrying a Muslim.

I have no wish to insult you.

On the other hand, the vast majority of Muslims no more identify with radical Muslims that you and I do.

Radical Muslims do exist and they exist in worryingly high numbers.

Not "going to", I AM married to a Muslim, and have been for a while now.

You are correct that the vast majority don't agree with the extremists, and yet I see a daily diet on ATS that implies that they DO, lumping them all into one single inseparable mass. In all actuality, a pretty fair proportion of them fear the extremists as much as the average American does, yet they get caught between the extremists on the one side and the people who hate ALL Muslims as if Islam were a monolithic entity on the other, and they have nowhere to turn.

There is no denying that radical Muslims do exist, with varying estimates of their proportion. I myself believe they make up probably 15 % or so, which is on the high end of the estimate scale. I've had some direct contact with the extremist variety as well, and I can tell you they are crazy as bedbugs. For that reason, I believe it is all the more important to make the distinction and differentiate between the two, so as not to alienate the ones who are NOT radicalized, and drive them into the radical camp because that is the only place they can find any friends.

In other words, I have no quarrel with painting up the radicals, but they should not be painted with broad enough strokes to cover ALL Muslims.

Originally posted by ollncasino


1 in 8 Muslims in both the UK and the USA support death for those who criticize Islam.


If you called for my death, you would get arrested. What gives Islamic radicals a get out of jail free card? Political correctness?

edit on 10-5-2013 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

First of all it's who "insult" not who "criticize" . Wonder why you changed it there.

You like to play the numbers game don't you ? When ever I see the brainless dog pic I see a couple of sources with numbers, do you have a bunch of them bookmarked ?


I'm pretty sure that guy you called "Overweight McDonald's munching Western Islamic radical ", is not going to kill you if you insult his religion in his face (which is considered hate speech , and you shouldn't be doing it in the first place). He expressed his anger in the wrong way.

I wonder what 1 in 8 Nonmuslim westerns would do if you publicly insult and embarrass him and his mother or wife?

I'm pretty sure 7 out of 8 of those who would practice hate speech and "insult" another religion foolishly and with no constructive criticism , will held up a sign similar to that "Overweight McDonald's munching Western Islamic radical", and around 6 out of 8, would actually take actions.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

So you got more than two people who speak arabic natively here. and you still refuse to accept the facts.

I still haven't seen any other translation than the ones on the Blaze. Did someone post alternative translations? Cause I admit I haven't read every page here.

My wife's translation is here, and I'll let 0SolidSnake0 link you to his, but he's posted it twice that I've seen.

You go to their country and you respect and obey their laws [OR ELSE !!!] They come to your country do not respect your Laws and culture and DEMAND you accept their culture Laws and Religion .
They we are told did 9/11 and yet the whole world is now grovelling to them to please them and not offend them ,.Its the U.S Govt ,and Military in their hellhole countries not ordinary civilian bombing them etc

Im very over them ,I don't care if you call that racist ,intolerant whatever blah blah blah ,stay in your own country where you damn well belong instead of scabbing off infidel social security not working and causing trouble and mayhem in what were former peaceful countries ,and coming here as fake refugees

Well the official translation is not far off. Your wife only included the first part though:

The translation I have been aware of is this:

www.thegatewaypundit.com...

Amen. I shelter in Allah from the devil who has been cast with stones. In the name of Allah the merciful forgiver. The companions of “THE FIRE” (The sinners and infidels who are fodder for the hell fire) ARE NOT EQUAL WITH the companions of heaven. The companions of heaven (Muslims) are the WINNERS. Had he sent this Koran to the mountain, you would have seen the mountain prostrated in fear of Allah. (Mocking the GOD of Moses) Such examples are what we present to the people, so that they would think. (repent and convert to Islam) Blessings are to your God (Allah) the God of glory and what they describe. And peace be upon the messengers (prophets) and thanks be to Allah the lord of both universes (mankind and Jinn).

Would your wife agree with the rest of the text?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


If they are allowed to, doctrinal differences will separate even different varieties of Christians or Muslims, so how much more so can they created a divide between those two if allowed to? Myself, I don't care what doctrine someone else believes - that is their own decision, not mine to make. If they have any "doctrinal error", it's theirs to own and answer for, not mine. I believe the world would be a healthier place if more people would adopt that attitude, and live and let live, rather than constantly bickering and insisting that the other "convert" to our own way of thinking.

They're not going to convert me, and I have no desire to convert them, and I think that's the way it ought to be everywhere, but it will never be.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You should get your husband to listen to the video, and tell you himself what is being said then

I may do this, but then if he decides not to divulge the more caustic parts in order to not upset me, then what?

I'm just not quite sure what to say to that. Do you feel that your own husband will or will not be honest with you? Honesty isn't always pretty, but it IS always necessary.

Alrighty then, would your wife give you a completely honest translation if it contained elements that she thought you might take offense to? I wonder. At least in the interest of not having an argument....perhaps he would rather not incite anything.
How would you know if your wife was being completely honest in her translations????? Do you really know? I admit I don't know, but at least I am not hiding my head in the sand about some of the more distasteful elements. I just don't have to accept them in my world. I don't have to tell him what to do either. It is his responsibility to his own spirituality to do what is truly righteous, and so is mine to do what I believe, as long as we do not hurt each other or others.

They're not going to convert me, and I have no desire to convert them

This is pretty much how we conduct things at home.

ok now back to typing the minutes for our Community meeting....

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by SeenMyShare

 

We see before us, the enemy, in service to the very nation they hate. Everyone can take that to mean whomever best fits it for actions over words. Deeds over promises. The end result speaks louder than any gesture or speech....and it's screaming so loud, our ears should ring.

joker

There are two faces of Islam, among the many sects...

There is the one that is sold as a religion of peace, used to recruit, used for public relations, and for diplomacy, it is the most widely accepted and known face.

Then there is the other face of Islam, and for humanity there is no greater inherent danger, or purer form of evil.

While many of you are familiar with both now, at least on some levels, you do not fully know one, but soon you may know it far too well and intimately... More than you could ever have imagined.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0

So you got more than two people who speak arabic natively here. and you still refuse to accept the facts.

Both of you clearly have a dog in the race.

So what you are saying here is that you won't trust the translation of a native speaker, so you'll just believe any old made up translation instead?

Just because you have that high a degree of mistrust of Muslims that you can't trust them to speak their own language?

Isn't that just a little over the edge?

Originally posted by 0SolidSnake0
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Where did these polls come from again ? Because, I've been to dearborn . Nobody have been asked such questions.
I love how they call them "scientific polls "

edit on 10-5-2013 by 0SolidSnake0 because: (no reason given)

A right wing news paper will arrange a poll where a majority of those asked to respond can be guaranteed to give somewhat contraversial responses and it will then be called a scientific poll.

reply to post by something wicked

A right wing news paper will arrange a poll where a majority of those asked to respond can be guaranteed to give somewhat contraversial responses and it will then be called a scientific poll.

ahahaha and we don't have to take the word of Huffpo, DailyKos, or Media Matters either... or Factcheck which is part of the Ayers Annenberg project.

Originally posted by ollncasino

7 out of 8 Italians are not in the Mafia yet the Mafia does an extremely good job of dominating Southern Italy.

I can't help who southern Italians allow to govern them. That statement is misleading, though. Assuming for the sake of argument that your figure of 1 in 8 is somehow correct, 1 in 8 of a minority population does not compare at all with 1 in 8 of the ENTIRE population.

1 in 8 Muslims in both the UK and the USA support death for those who criticize Islam.

Actually, that does surprise me, since the political and religious climates are so different. You would think that if it were a genuine problem, the more liberal British society would be in a lot more trouble.

If you called for my death, you would get arrested. What gives Islamic radicals a get out of jail free card? Political correctness?

Amendment I, Bill off Rights, United States Constitution.

If you were to call for MY death, on the other hand, you would not be arrested. I'm just not fearful enough to press charges, and I believe YOU should be allowed to say anything you please as well as anyone else.

I guess I should post this again.

He read verse from the Koran. Does a Preacher not read verse from a bible?

quran.com...

Surat Al-Ĥashr (The Exile) - سورة الحشر This is a portion of the entire surah. View more context, or the entire surah. 59:20 to top Sahih International Not equal are the companions of the Fire and the companions of Paradise. The companions of Paradise - they are the attainers [of success].

59:21 to top Sahih International If We had sent down this Qur'an upon a mountain, you would have seen it humbled and coming apart from fear of Allah . And these examples We present to the people that perhaps they will give thought.

And if you want a different translation from another website about the Koran go a head. Don't take the word of one website. Look up a copy of the Koran for yourself. Surah 59:20 – 59:21 of the Koran. A picture would also be good because in the Koran the English is directly next to the original Arabic.

It is written in the Koran. Maybe people should read the page itself. Instead of arguing over how it should be translated. The English is right next to the Arabic.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Battleline

"Religious bigotry"??, you say that religion is not part of your life, doesn't it bother you that people who believe in something so strong want you either enslaved or dead?

Sorry if me wanting to know who wants me dead for my beliefs or lack there of is "religious bigotry" in your eyes but when someone threatens me and my way of life I feel the need to know why.

You might want to read and research the Qur'an, these people are for real unless of course you just want to ridicule me for my beliefs.

I thought better of you BH.

Who, EXACTLY, wants you dead? Do you even know your enemy? I think not. If you do not know who your real enemy is, you will be doomed to a lifetime of fighting everyone you meet, even friends.

To attempt to cast that light on an entire religion because of the beliefs of a factional minority is most certainly NOT discerning who your enemy truly is, and it IS a form of religious bigotry, hate born of fear and failure to comprehend. It's no different than painting the entire Christian religion in a bad light because of the actions of the Crusaders or Westboro Baptists. Just as neither of those represent the entirety of Christianity, neither do the Jihadists represent the entirety of Islam.

I've already read the Qur'an. I've read the Bible, too. There is some pretty rough stuff in both of them. More importantly, however, I've discussed both at length with their respective adherents. Until you've done that, you are unlikely to be able to figure out just who your enemy really is, and so will be doomed to fight your friends, too, just as I said above.

Are there some scary Muslims? You betcha. there are some scary Christians, too. I'm not, however, going to run right out and burn my local church to the ground simply because some idjit at Westover said some crazy crap, or because their Bible tells them to kill everything in town, including the cattle.

I'll wait and see which one comes to kill my cattle, and drop him like a stone. The rest are safe.

The same people that want you dead unless your a Muslim. If you read the Qur'an you did not read it with an objective mind, you read into it like your arrogant nature would dictate.

People like you are hard to debate because you already know it all or it would seem by your accusations and ridicule

Also your comment "drop them like a stone" purity much says it all as to what kind of person you are and your nature as a whole........................you have a nice day.

Why are people still shocked by anything Islamists do? Have people not been paying attention for the last... oh... 90 years??

Originally posted by talisman

Well the official translation is not far off. Your wife only included the first part though:

The translation I have been aware of is this:

www.thegatewaypundit.com...

Amen. I shelter in Allah from the devil who has been cast with stones. In the name of Allah the merciful forgiver. The companions of “THE FIRE” (The sinners and infidels who are fodder for the hell fire) ARE NOT EQUAL WITH the companions of heaven. The companions of heaven (Muslims) are the WINNERS. Had he sent this Koran to the mountain, you would have seen the mountain prostrated in fear of Allah. (Mocking the GOD of Moses) Such examples are what we present to the people, so that they would think. (repent and convert to Islam) Blessings are to your God (Allah) the God of glory and what they describe. And peace be upon the messengers (prophets) and thanks be to Allah the lord of both universes (mankind and Jinn).

Would your wife agree with the rest of the text?

No. She says the paranthetical parts are not part of the Qur'an, they are "tafsir", an exigetical interpretation by some guy here or there, but NOT a part of the Qur'an. She further says that the translation you cite, and in particular the paranthetical exegesis, is a Wahabbi interpretation, but it is NOT what the cleric recited.

We could not find this particular tafsir anywhere. A Google search of the passage turned up no Qur'an verses whatsoever, up to 10 pages into the search. I didn't go further into the search, because ALL of the first 10 Google pages found this translation ONLY in stories on this incident.

For a variety of legitimate translations of those two passages, go here for the first, and here for the second.

Furthermore, she says that the reference to "the companions of paradise" is applied to the dead, and "companions of the fire" is applied to the enemy, the ones who killed them, and that it is explicitly stated that they are not equals.

Also, and it's not getting much airplay here, she says that at the end, the cleric specifically prays the dead soldiers into Paradise, not condemning them at all.

When a Muslim dies, everyone who knew them cites Qur'an for them, and in many instances the entire Qur'an is recited from front to back. It is not seen as a bad thing just because there are parts that condemn people who do evil - it's not specifically calling the dead "evil", it's a recitation of the holy words of God in honor of the dead.