Report: Muslim cleric invited to pray over fallen SEALs damns them during service

I'm guessing they invited the wrong cleric.

Surely the cleric has or does not have a history of being overzealous.

Unless he can identify specific sins then he is speaking from a viewpoint of partisan religion.

From his view point according to his scriptures everyone not Islamic is condemned.

And granted Islamic nations have in general a lower violent crime rate than most Caucasian Christian nations, but in the New Testament one of the authors said that Jesus was the Word. In other words all scripture was inspired by Him when He was not walking the earth. And Galations 1:8 makes another gospel OFF LIMITS.

This prohibits any additional gospel and additional religions and I speculate that one of the reasons why Christ made additional scriptures off limits is so that people weren't flying planes into buildings or pulling a Warren Jeffs and engaging in inappropriate sexual relationships.

reply to post by JBA2848


We are relying on translators, not necessarily specifically a verse from the Quran. Translators translated directly from the voice on the tape. That is how I understand it.

reply to post by nenothtu


ok thanks.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Alrighty then, would your wife give you a completely honest translation if it contained elements that she thought you might take offense to? I wonder. At least in the interest of not having an argument....perhaps he would rather not incite anything.

Yeah, she would. She don't mind offending me all that much as long as it's the truth Seriously, though, she knows I'd be MORE offended by a lie or a partial truth, which is, after all, a form of lie by omission.

How would you know if your wife was being completely honest in her translations????? Do you really know?

I'm not an entire stranger to Arabic, I'm just not as fluent as I once was. It would take me some studying and puzzling it out, but I'd eventually find out if there was an omission or dishonesty.

It sort of pisses me off that all of these soldiers, American and Afghan alike, DIED TOGETHER in a common cause, and here we have a bunch of folks who've likely never even smelled gunpowder pushing for more separation, even to the point of promoting lies to engender unfounded hate.

To me, that's cheapening those deaths beyond all reason. It's like they died for nothing at all, and no one is even noticing the deaths more than to use them as an excuse and a springboard to launch more hate.

Haters are haters, and those promoting hate against all the Muslims indiscriminately are no better than the Wahabbis preaching THEIR hate.

reply to post by nenothtu

Also, and it's not getting much airplay here, she says that at the end, the cleric specifically prays the dead soldiers into Paradise, not condemning them at all.

Would you mind asking if he prayed all the soldiers into heaven or just those who believe?

pushing for more separation, even to the point of promoting lies to engender unfounded hate.

Unfortunately, I think this has been a goal of the Power Elite for some time and that they have used religious differences to propel us into various wars for profit. I'm not saying the differences weren't there to begin with, only that "managed conflict" is the long time forte of some of the controlling elites.

Haters are haters, and those promoting hate against all the Muslims indiscriminately are no better than the Wahabbis preaching THEIR hate.

Agreed, wholehearedly

Originally posted by nenothtu
So what you are saying here is that you won't trust the translation of a native speaker, so you'll just believe any old made up translation instead?

Just because you have that high a degree of mistrust of Muslims that you can't trust them to speak their own language?

Isn't that just a little over the edge?

Is your wife a respected university translator of 7th Century classical Arabic with a high grasp of English?

A respected independent expert on Islam?

No she isn't.

She is the Muslim wife of some bloke on the Internet who assures me she can be trusted and who assures me she is an expert in translating 7th Century classical Arabic into English.

I'm not being being unreasonable. Neither are you but she isn't my wife.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by nenothtu
So what you are saying here is that you won't trust the translation of a native speaker, so you'll just believe any old made up translation instead?

Just because you have that high a degree of mistrust of Muslims that you can't trust them to speak their own language?

Isn't that just a little over the edge?

Is your wife a respected university translator of 7th Century classical Arabic with a high grasp of English?

A respected independent expert on Islam?

No she isn't.

She is the Muslim wife of some bloke on the Internet who assures me she can be trusted and who assures me she is an expert in translating 7th Century classical Arabic into English.

I'm not being being unreasonable. Neither are you but she isn't my wife.

Every Muslim has to learn to recite to pray. You don't have to be an expert. In fact I wouldn't trust some of these experts, "some" of them are the cause of the problems you see today, always with their agendas.

Anyway if this is correct, then several Afghans died that day too. Do they not deserve a proper funeral? These afghans risk their lives every day to serve your country, they have a target on their heads, because the Taliban think they are infidels, even the translators cover their faces in fear of getting caught.

I've read a lot of comments on that website about their hatred towards Muslims, and how the cleric disrespected the Seals, but if this story is true, that several Afghans died that day, then it's the people who are acting offended who are disrespectful, because several afghans, several human beings died that day too, but yeah go ahead just pretend they don't exist.

reply to post by yuppa
Sarah actually offered Hagar to Abraham because she thought she was barren, and yes, Ishmael was the firstborn, but not the son of promise. Sarah apparently didn't believe God when he told her that she would bear a son.

In response to some others - I will not apologize for believing and trusting in what you call the Judeo-Christian God. Being a Christian is demonized in society but we are expected to be tolerant of Islam? We are called religious nutters, terrorists, full of hate and the cause of all the ills of mankind yet we are supposed to be tolerant of Islam? My religion doesn't tell me to kill anyone who doesn't believe as I do.

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
My religion doesn't tell me to kill anyone who doesn't believe as I do.

Islam doesn't too. Whenever you hear about that, it's usually taken out of context. Usually from a part in the Qur'an that's talking about a specific time of war in those days.

Originally posted by Battleline
The same people that want you dead unless your a Muslim.

That doesn't tell me much. I'll ask again - WHO are these people? I can be fairly sure that at least some of the people who would like to see ME dead don't care at all about you - they don't even know you. So who are these people who want to see us BOTH dead?

If you read the Qur'an you did not read it with an objective mind, you read into it like your arrogant nature would dictate.

So unless I buy into YOUR interpretation of the Qur'an, I'm not being "objective"? Are you being particularly objective? Why should I trust you over the Muslims regarding THEIR beliefs? They sort of wrote the book, didn't they?

People like you are hard to debate because you already know it all or it would seem by your accusations and ridicule

So if I'm wrong, counter what I've said, rather than the way I say it. If you have no counter for what I've said, is the potential not there that I am right?

Also your comment "drop them like a stone" purity much says it all as to what kind of person you are and your nature as a whole........................you have a nice day.

Yeah, I'm not a very nice guy, and I have references for that. The fact remains that if they come for me, I'm not just going to sit there and let them have me, and if they DON'T come for me, I don't care what they say or how often they threaten to come for me. "They", and that's ALL of the "theys", Christian and Muslim alike, have the same right to speak freely that I do.

Originally posted by ollncasino



Is your wife a respected university translator of 7th Century classical Arabic with a high grasp of English?

A respected independent expert on Islam?

No she isn't.

She is the Muslim wife of some bloke on the Internet who assures me she can be trusted and who assures me she is an expert in translating 7th Century classical Arabic into English.

I'm not being being unreasonable. Neither are you but she isn't my wife.

It's not rocket science. You don't need a university professor to translate what is thought to arabs since first grade. Stop twisting it .
Classic arabic is the language used in ALL Arabic schools. We learn it like you learn english in schools. When we study grammar and poetry, we study it on it. It is used in most political speeches. News reporters where I came from, Lebanon. Speak it.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Also, and it's not getting much airplay here, she says that at the end, the cleric specifically prays the dead soldiers into Paradise, not condemning them at all.

Would you mind asking if he prayed all the soldiers into heaven or just those who believe?

It was not specified for one faction of soldiers or the other, it was for the group. He specifically prayed for their "forgiveness" and admission to paradise. Islam sees "People of the Book" as ignorant of the whole truth, but not "wrong" - they just don't believe the entire way that Muslims do. They don't believe in the prophet of Islam, but they do believe in God, and so are not going to be barred from Heaven in the Islamic worldview. They are not considered "unbelievers" or "infidels".

pushing for more separation, even to the point of promoting lies to engender unfounded hate.

Unfortunately, I think this has been a goal of the Power Elite for some time and that they have used religious differences to propel us into various wars for profit. I'm not saying the differences weren't there to begin with, only that "managed conflict" is the long time forte of some of the controlling elites.

Yes, the differences are there, but someone, perhaps a power elite, is exacerbating and engendering them, blowing them out of proportion to make them appear worse than they are, apparently to foster more separation and mistrust. "Divide and conquer" comes to mind.

Has anybody paid attention to the Attorney for the families and his ties to PNAC? Who is PNAC?

en.wikipedia.org...

Associations with Bush administration After the election of George W. Bush in 2000, some of PNAC's members or signatories were appointed to key positions within the President's administration: Name Position(s) held Elliott Abrams Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Democracy, Human Rights, and International Operations (2001–2002), Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Near East and North African Affairs (2002–2005), Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy (2005–2009) (all within the National Security Council) Richard Armitage Deputy Secretary of State (2001–2005) John R. Bolton Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs (2001–2005), U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2005–2006) Dick Cheney Vice President (2001–2009) Eliot A. Cohen Member of the Defense Policy Advisory Board (2007–2009)[64] Seth Cropsey Director of the International Broadcasting Bureau (12/2002-12/2004) Paula Dobriansky Under-Secretary of State for Global Affairs (2001–2007) Aaron Friedberg Deputy Assistant for National Security Affairs and Director of Policy Planning, Office of the Vice President (2003–2005) Francis Fukuyama Member of The President's Council on Bioethics (2001–2005) Zalmay Khalilzad U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan (11/2003 - 6/2005), U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (6/2005 - 3/2007) U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007–2009) I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Chief of Staff to the Vice President of the United States (2001–2005) Richard Perle Chairman of the Board, Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee (2001–2003) Peter W. Rodman Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security (2001–2007) Donald Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense (2001–2006) Randy Scheunemann Member of the U.S. Committee on NATO, Project on Transitional Democracies, International Republican Institute Paul Wolfowitz Deputy Secretary of Defense (2001–2005) 10th President of the World Bank (2005-2007) Dov S. Zakheim Department of Defense Comptroller (2001–2004) Robert B. Zoellick Office of the United States Trade Representative (2001–2005), Deputy Secretary of State (2005–2006), 11th President of the World Bank (2007–2012)

Here is a thread I made about all the connections from the hate film made by the Coptic Egyptians and Scooter Libby.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read those and you will realize that this is hate mongering. They once used it as propaganda to get the American people behind the war in Iraq. Same people. Same tricks. Wake up sheeple.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Is your wife a respected university translator of 7th Century classical Arabic with a high grasp of English?

A respected independent expert on Islam?

No she isn't.

She is the Muslim wife of some bloke on the Internet who assures me she can be trusted and who assures me she is an expert in translating 7th Century classical Arabic into English.

I'm not being being unreasonable. Neither are you but she isn't my wife.

If I answer "yes" to any of the above (because I honestly can answer yes to some of it), are we going to try and raise the bar again, and keep doing that until we finally reach impossible qualifications?

I might ask the same of you - are you any of those things? If not, is there some particular reason we should accept your interpretation over that of a Muslim who lives the religion?

Oh for heavens sake!

I thought this was all done on page 4!!!!!!

Hate or don't hate.

Curse or don't curse.

We'll always have rat-bastards on any side that'd take a piss on someone or some side that they don't like.

We have ####ing tards like Westboro saying worse things every damned day.

So a cleric might have said something insulting.

Big effing deal! Coming from a vet, my own frigging government takes a bigger dump on people like me daily than any rat-bastard cleric!

Sorry about the rant, but this is just plain damned silly!

(apologies for the swears)

Hmm.

The Washington times makes fox news seem like a liberal rag first off,
Second, no source from their website, so we got to take their word for it

keep in mind, this is the same website that has brought to you such gems as:
[www.washingtontimes.com...]Baby killers are having a good week [/url] (actual title, not a blog or opinion bit but "news", which is entirely bias and showing a point)
Hell, you don't want to look at their editorial and opinion pages, it is 100% neocon nonsense, from how Obama is grabbing your caffine (ya, you read it right) to how everyone misses Bush.

I don't put things from the Democratic Underground due to it being absurdly bias to being spun in a completely different galaxy unless it is well sourced from nonbias news agencys..then I will only discuss the source, not their spin.

Incidently, its also a church run news rag..caring more about Judeo-Christian values and stopping the spread of communism than any actual journalistic integrity.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You forgot one little caveat.. GOD PROMISED SARAH THOUGH NOT HAGAR WITH THE CHILD. Sarah apparently was a Idiot and Did not believe God would fulfill his promise to her. SO sorry Try again on passing Hagar off as the legitimate Bearer.

______beforeitsnews/obama/2013/05/sick-video-obama-has-islamic-iman-curse-dead-soldiers-at-their-memorial-service-seal-team-vi-2450552.html

The above link is to the press conference in D.C. regarding the topic, with 4 sets of parents speaking out.

Truths, as well about the mission, the antiquated helicopter, the fact that all of Seal Tem VI was in one vehicle, the truth about how it was shot down, that it had no backup, that it was not a RPG out of nowhere,....

As a Canadian I was hooked on watching this and, in spite of the length, watched right to the end as, after the parents were acknowledged then, some retired Generals, Admirals spoke up on various mistakes made by the current administration, even to pointing out the treasonous acts, and that now is the time to repeat history, as with the Revolution with England and just march in there with guns a-blazing.

The rules of engagement that affected Benghazi, that no American can shoot at anyone until being shot at first, leaves he American fighter at a disadvantage. Another example was of an enemy who shoots at an American then runs and hides behind a rock, then peeks over the top, cannot be shot at without proof that he has laid down his weapon. Are these games made up by children?

During the English Revolution, the British could stand in a long line and fire their muskets at the enemy and as some (Brits) fell dead they were replaced by others and this kept up giving no advantage to the USA. (Nevertheless, I think we won? ROE forgotten----)

I found it nothing but a pleasure to listen to these people talk and talk about truth and facts, and not be spinning tales. I was left with a measure of hope!

reply to post by yuppa

You forgot one little caveat.. GOD PROMISED SARAH THOUGH NOT HAGAR WITH THE CHILD. Sarah apparently was a Idiot and Did not believe God would fulfill his promise to her. SO sorry Try again on passing Hagar off as the legitimate Bearer.

Try again passing Hagar off as a "hot little servant woman", as you did previously.
Oh wait, you cant.. the Bible proves you wrong, as she was Abrahams wife.

As for the "child" ... Sarah, Hagar and Keturah were all legitimate bearers of Abrahams children.
What exactly was the point you were trying to make?

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Battleline
The same people that want you dead unless your a Muslim.

That doesn't tell me much. I'll ask again - WHO are these people? I can be fairly sure that at least some of the people who would like to see ME dead don't care at all about you - they don't even know you. So who are these people who want to see us BOTH dead?

If you read the Qur'an you did not read it with an objective mind, you read into it like your arrogant nature would dictate.

So unless I buy into YOUR interpretation of the Qur'an, I'm not being "objective"? Are you being particularly objective? Why should I trust you over the Muslims regarding THEIR beliefs? They sort of wrote the book, didn't they?

People like you are hard to debate because you already know it all or it would seem by your accusations and ridicule

So if I'm wrong, counter what I've said, rather than the way I say it. If you have no counter for what I've said, is the potential not there that I am right?

Also your comment "drop them like a stone" purity much says it all as to what kind of person you are and your nature as a whole........................you have a nice day.

Yeah, I'm not a very nice guy, and I have references for that. The fact remains that if they come for me, I'm not just going to sit there and let them have me, and if they DON'T come for me, I don't care what they say or how often they threaten to come for me. "They", and that's ALL of the "theys", Christian and Muslim alike, have the same right to speak freely that I do.

It would seem that you like to argue for the sake of arguing, you answered all your questions in your last paragraph.

The fact you say your not a very nice guy and you have references for that makes me feel you are also full of your self and nothing I say will matter, you will always have another redundant comment.

I don't need to tell you who I am talking about, again you answered that in your last statement. Muslims want to install sharia law in every country in the world and if you don't agree then you will be enslaved or killed. I'm sure if you have read the Qur'an you can reference that.

You don't have to buy into anything I say, research it with an open mind, if you chose not to believe it then that is your choice.

sometimes the way a person says something says it all and further debate is useless, you just have to agree to disagree.

Quote; there are no moderate Muslims, just those that don't understand the implications of there own religion..............point being Muslims people that don't join the jihad when the radicals tell them to will be shown no mercy..........I know Muslim people and they worry a lot more then I do about the future.