Trinitarians are Polytheists

You call yourself a follower of the Way?

Tell me, would Christ act childish and point the finger and laugh at other people? What you do is out of malice not love. A complete failure of the royal law. "By the fruits of their labors shall you know them". I see your fruits.

reply to post by adjensen

. . . you belong to a "church" that is pretty much universally accepted as being a cult,

Really?
I must have missed that on the earlier thread since I jumped in halfway through it.
Can you give me a link to where that came up?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

What you do is out of malice not love.

How can you conclude such a thing. Clearly, the OP of Protestant disinfo debunked didn't intend for it to turn into a bickering fest. His last post was on page 36, mentioning his displeasure over the bickering. Then it went on for another 10 pages.

It was a good thing to start a new thread. I felt like suggesting it myself.

Originally posted by truejew
The following are polytheistic sayings, not compatible with one God, that trinitarians on this board have said to me:

1. "Genesis 1:26 is evidence of more than one creator."

2. "Trinity is three separate entities."

3. "Stephen saw Jesus physically sitting next to the Father."


And before you say it... That I mentioned three of your statements is not proof of God being a trinity.

Trinitarians are polytheists. Wake up from your brainwashing.

edit on 9-5-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

This is one area where I can relate to Christians in a theological way. I worship a "triple" goddess with three aspects. She is the same deity but changes in order to facilitate various roles. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are of a similar concept as my Maiden, Mother, Crone.

The biggest difference is that Christians have a hard-line doctrine of worshiping the "one true god" which makes them an object of criticism when, in the same breath, they talk about how their "one true god" is actually three different things.

Personally, I consider that to be in the realm of polytheism but I also don't believe Christians should beat themselves up over it as they are still worshiping their "one true god" even if they are worshiping different aspects of it. I don't have to worry about that myself because I really do worship more than one deity so an accusation of polytheism doesn't really bother me.

I feel for the Christians here because it's a hard case to argue but I get it. I hope they can someday just admit that it is very much like polytheism but it does not count as "worshiping other gods".

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen

 

. . . you belong to a "church" that is pretty much universally accepted as being a cult,

Really?
I must have missed that on the earlier thread since I jumped in halfway through it.

I don't know that it came up in that thread, but he's a "Oneness Pentecostal", which is commonly held to have cult characteristics (such as the aforementioned control issues -- women cannot wear pants, jewelry, makeup, cut their hair; family members who have left the church are shunned, etc.)

TrueJew complains about Rick Ross a lot, but it's hard to argue that he's not one of the leading experts on cults and their behaviours. Here's his page on the "Oneness Pentecostals": United Pentecostal Church International

TrueJew's specific church is a breakaway from that organization, led by real estate agent turned Pastor/Bishop/Cohen/Doctor Gray Reckart (I've never found anything to indicate those titles are anything other than self-appointed) who thinks that the UPCI isn't "Oneness" enough, and that they, along with everyone else who doesn't agree lock, stock and barrel with Gary Reckart, are all going to hell.

Not surprisingly, the others in the UPCI view Reckart's church as a cult.

I don't count him a brother. I personally view him as a cult leader. He is the central figure and they count themselves followers of Reckart (Source)

reply to post by truejew

Is it true what adjensen says? That you are a member of Jesus Messieh Church?

If yes, you may want to ask that the webmaster review this statement for possible correction:

The prophecy of Isaiah quoted by the Apostle Peter from the ancient Hebrew text before it was changed by Aquila, states that although the seed of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved (Rom 9:27).
Statement of Doctrine: Plan Of Redemption Of Israel

Also if yes, does this statement represent your own views, or are yours slightly different?

reply to post by adjensen

. . . I don't know that it came up in that thread . . .

I did see that name, Reckart, there on the earlier thread, but did not know what it was in reference to. Thanks for that info.
I don't think I would be interested in being in a religious cult myself but maybe some people like it but probably the real victims would be the children who have to live through the trauma of being in a situation where they are forced to have to go into rebellion at some point.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by truejew

Is it true what adjensen says? That you are a member of Jesus Messieh Church?

If yes, you may want to ask that the webmaster review this statement for possible correction

Better be careful, friend. Disagreeing with Reckart might result in you winding up on his List of People Who Hate Pastor Reckart, though, to be honest, if you are a semi-normal person, you're probably already on it. Wearing shorts, owning a television or going to a baseball game lands you smack dab on the middle of it.

reply to post by adjensen

Disagreeing with Reckart might result in you winding up on his List of People Who Hate Pastor Reckart,

I'm confused. Is that Reckart's own blog page? Is he the blogger going by the name Son of the Blood?

That list seems very long. If he made the list himself, it seems he's assuming an awful lot. I doubt that all those people were asked.

Those who believe it is OK to wear jewelry hate Pastor Reckart;

Pollster:
"Tell me miss jewlery wearer, do you hate Pastor Reckart?"

Bejeweled:
"What? Who?"

Pollster:
"I'll just mark you down as a yes."

But seriously, that's probably off-topic.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by adjensen

Disagreeing with Reckart might result in you winding up on his List of People Who Hate Pastor Reckart,

I'm confused. Is that Reckart's own blog page? Is he the blogger going by the name Son of the Blood?

Yep, that's him, the guy that TrueJew keeps assuring me is a "good man", despite him saying that everyone who disagrees with him is "an idiot", "a liar" and "hellbound".

Pollster:
"Tell me miss jewlery wearer, do you hate Pastor Reckart?"

Bejeweled:
"What? Who?"

Pollster:
"I'll just mark you down as a yes."

lol, yes, that's his claim, in a nutshell. As I told someone previously, there are billions worldwide who will apparently be called to task by the Lord for hating this "Man of God", even though they have no idea who he is, they just happened to own a wristwatch, ring or television set, which makes them a "hater".

Absolute lunacy, and what's worse, he's been called on it numerous times since 2010 and he still leaves it up, so apparently he believes it.

Don't forget the diploma mill.

Originally posted by drivers1492
reply to post by truejew

 

Ok so your saying jesus is god not the son of god. Hows exactly do you wipe all the son of god references out? I understand your stance of one god and from my reading I agree but I do think the story is clear that jesus was god's son. The vision of stephen states that he saw god or the glory of god(depending on translations) and jesus to his/its right hand (in the position of power). That in no way says there is multiple gods.

Give you an analogy of how im understanding the jesus god relationship. I live on a cattle farm. It is owned by my father. I have full control and authority of this farm including finances yet I am not the owner. Pop also has this control and authority yet we are in agreement. From my reading this applies perfectly to the father/son relationship of god and jesus and in no way implies that god is not singular in his position at the top simply delegation.

No, I am saying that Jesus is the Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, not the "eternal God the Son" as in trinitarianism.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by abeverage
reply to post by truejew

 

Much of the bible makes it very clear there is more than one force at work in the opening of Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image

edit on 9-5-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

The Bible, even God Himself, says that there is only one God, or force as you called Him.

In Genesis 1:26 we see God speaking to the angels. In verse 27 we see God alone, a singular "he" did the actual creating. This has been the Jewish teaching on Genesis 1:26 for thousands of years.

In Qur'an plural pronouns are used by Allah, but arabic has two kinds of plural, plural of numbers and plural of royalty. Like a king saying, "we are pleased!"
i don't know about Hebrew, if it was used in the same way as arabic. Maybe you'l know more about Hebrew language.
I do know that in Elohim the "im" can be just added as a title of respect.
media.isnet.org...

In Hebrew, it depends on whether Elohim is used with "he", "him" or "they", "them". When Elohim is used for God, it is always used with the singular words "he" and "him". When used for multiple false gods, it is used with "they" or "them"

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You call yourself a follower of the Way?

Yes.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Tell me, would Christ act childish and point the finger and laugh at other people? What you do is out of malice not love. A complete failure of the royal law. "By the fruits of their labors shall you know them". I see your fruits.

I am not doing as you claim. I am seeking that they wake up from their brainwashing.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

What you do is out of malice not love.

How can you conclude such a thing. Clearly, the OP of Protestant disinfo debunked didn't intend for it to turn into a bickering fest. His last post was on page 36, mentioning his displeasure over the bickering. Then it went on for another 10 pages.

It was a good thing to start a new thread. I felt like suggesting it myself.

You are correct about my intentions.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by adjensen

 

(such as the aforementioned control issues -- women cannot wear pants, jewelry, makeup, cut their hair; family members who have left the church are shunned, etc.)

Adjensen is speaking of our holiness standards which are often misunderstood by "cult hunters" such as Adjensen. There are spiritual reasons behind them, not control reasons. Attempting to look like the opposite sex or dressing to look like prostitutes is not the proper way for God's people to live. People are not "forced" to live by them.

I have never seen the shunning issue he brought up in our churches and my family has been involved in the Church since 1907. In fact, I have seen oneness people being shunned by trinitarians.

Originally posted by adjensen

TrueJew complains about Rick Ross a lot, but it's hard to argue that he's not one of the leading experts on cults and their behaviours. Here's his page on the "Oneness Pentecostals": United Pentecostal Church International

I consider Rick Ross and his fan group to be a cult. They use tactics that cults use to program people. Kidnaping, handcuffing, keeping them from family and friends.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by truejew

Is it true what adjensen says? That you are a member of Jesus Messieh Church?

If yes, you may want to ask that the webmaster review this statement for possible correction

Better be careful, friend. Disagreeing with Reckart might result in you winding up on his List of People Who Hate Pastor Reckart, though, to be honest, if you are a semi-normal person, you're probably already on it. Wearing shorts, owning a television or going to a baseball game lands you smack dab on the middle of it.

Pastor Reckart has received real hate from those who disagree with him, even threats of physical harm.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by adjensen

Disagreeing with Reckart might result in you winding up on his List of People Who Hate Pastor Reckart,

I'm confused. Is that Reckart's own blog page? Is he the blogger going by the name Son of the Blood?

That list seems very long. If he made the list himself, it seems he's assuming an awful lot. I doubt that all those people were asked.

Those who believe it is OK to wear jewelry hate Pastor Reckart;

Pollster:
"Tell me miss jewlery wearer, do you hate Pastor Reckart?"

Bejeweled:
"What? Who?"

Pollster:
"I'll just mark you down as a yes."

But seriously, that's probably off-topic.

edit on 9-5-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)

Pastor Reckart has received a lot of hate mail, even threats of physical harm. Just disagreeing with him does not mean you hate him.

Let's keep this thread on topic please. It is not an attack Pastor Reckart thread

reply to post by truejew

No, I am saying that Jesus is the Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, not the "eternal God the Son" as in trinitarianism.

What do you think Jewish belief is?
Or what do you think Jewish belief was at the time of Christ?
Do you think it is the same as what passes for Jewish belief today?
Have you ever considered that at the time when Jesus was here on earth, Jewish usually meant that you lived in the Diaspora and that you did believe in an eternal Son of God, who was Adonai, the Lord, who was not necessarily the God, but as much of a god as the earth could tolerate the presence of?