Why should Immoral people change?

reply to post by logical7

As BH said, 1% owning 99% wealth. sharia makes sure of economic redistribution.
Sharia protects the weakest against the rich.
A rich may get immoral if he stops caring for the poor because he believes that what he earned is by his talent. Its untrue, he din't really earn the talent, gratefulness to God keeps him humble and makes him give charity.

I have no argument AT ALL with what you said there.

So...we are talking, then, about the 'rich' exploiters of the system, and not the general public....is that correct (my thinking that is what you mean)?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by logical7

 

If God is loving to the criminal, it would be injustice to the victim.

So would you say that people who die in the act of murdering innocent people are in Hell?

people will be judged by their intentions. A murderer does not automatically qualify for hell. Hell is also not eternal for everyone that went in.

reply to post by logical7

i find punishment for rape lenient if its less than capital punishment.

So, you ARE saying that rape deserves the death penalty. Is that correct?

Again, is this thread a push for Sharia law?

EDIT: It really makes me wonder what your personal experience is with "rape." I have not personally experienced it, nor has anyone in my family.

reply to post by wildtimes

As long as it's
not in excess and a person who gets
violent when "uninhibited".

2.219. They ask you about
intoxicating drinks and games
of chance(gambling). Say: "In both there
is great evil, though some use
for people, but their evil is
greater than their usefulness. " They also ask you what they
should spend (in God's cause
and for the needy). Say: "What
is left over (after you have
spent on your dependents'
needs). " Thus does God make clear to you His Revelations,
that you may reflect

the inhibition is due to the fronal lobe.
Any substance that makes that uninhibited is haram.
Also the fronal lobe is responsible for lying and sinning as Qur'an said 1400 years back.

96:14. Knows he not that Allah does see (what he does)?
15. Nay! If he (Abu Jahl) ceases not, We will catch him by the forelock,
16. A lying, sinful forelock!

reply to post by logical7

Also the fronal lobe is responsible for lying and sinning as Qur'an said 1400 years back.

It has been established by science that the "frontal lobe" is not mature until the mid-20s.

It is the center of "judgment" in terms of 'good' or 'poor' judgment. That explains why so many 'youths' make poor choices. It's to be expected. Science. Brain development.

A mature adult is no longer biologically developing the frontal lobe.

And, a mature and healthy adult will NOT be inspired to "rape" or otherwise commit a sin against another person just due to drinking beer - unless they are already screwed up by their upbringing.

So, what is your deal with "rape" being a capital offense (that is, worthy of the death penalty)?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
It's pretty simple actually, people should stop being immoral because it's the right thing to do.

I'm guessing you are fishing for a particular answer? If god were needed for morality, you'd never see religious people killing one another and you'd only see atheists acting immoral. In my experience, the opposite is usually true. In fact, god has been one of the main justifications for people acting immoral throughout history.

except for Hitler, Mao and Stalin cough cough

the problem is the interpretation of scriptures to suit a twisted personal agenda, True evil is using religion as tool for destruction. Christian's should believe in forgiveness, turning the other cheek, Leading by example, not being judgmental of others ect but these things are compounded by people who view these virtues as a weakness and exploit them. Even in church's we see judgmental behavior because A: people who follow these rules feel if they cant do them then nobody should and B: they feel someone is taking advantage of them because of how they are should act.

Being a christian is humbling to say the lest.and people get angry over social immortality especially if it effects them in some way. We struggle with the thought that we enable the people who who take advantage of us which is actually written in the bible. a passage about raking hot coals on the heads of enemies when we treat them nicely comes to mind which sounds great on paper but is very hard in real life.

immorality can only be changed by the people who are immoral they have to want to not be immoral anymore. I think regardless of if they change or don't change it doesn't matter. There will always be immoral people because in some way we are all immoral

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

I say the OT was modified by a bunch of fanatic terrorists during many times in history and they blamed it on God and they are still doing it to grab land, to kill and call themselves as chosen!!

Really? So, you think the Old Testament was correct?
If so, I really don't know how to effectively respond to that assertion. It's clear to me that the Old Testament "God" was a capital creep!!

God is the same for all. The scribes of OT were creeps.
OT is a revelation but got corrupted as people added their own desires in it.

You think God changes from OT to NT to Qur'an?
You can say Qur'an is a new edition as the older were changed needing to restore the correct beliefs.

reply to post by logical7

You think God changes from OT to NT to Qur'an?

Yes.

He does 'change' from OT to NT to Qur'an to Baha'i or to whatever 'flavor' of Abrahamic religions you want to look at. Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish, Muslim, WHATEVER!

He DOES change! Can you really not grasp that concept?? I'm sure you can, logical7. You're smarter than to think that all Abrahamic religions are thinking of the same "God/Allah" - AS DESCRIBED IN THEIR various "versions" it is obvious they do NOT share the same beliefs.

Do I think the actual (possible) "creator" changes? No. But, the RELIGIONS certainly change "God" around to suit their motives....there is no question about that.

OT is a revelation but got corrupted as people added their own desires in it.

How can you say that and not suspect the same about the Qu'ran (Mohammed's) version of it?

reply to post by wildtimes

So...we are talking, then, about the 'rich' exploiters of the system, and not the general public....is that correct (my thinking that is what you mean)?

everyone is having a responsibility be it a well to do person or someone super rich.
Its not robinhood style charity.

Every muslim who has a specific amount held as saving for a year has to pay 2.5% as zakat yearly. The word zakat interestingly means 'to purify'
its a great way to redistribute wealth and interest is anyways haram so no upward trickling of money.
Its a law by God, any charity above that is optional. 2.5% is compulsory. Its very hard for the rich to do it and thats why its compulsory, rich have the highest chance to become greedy.
These are the inbuilt protections against going towards immorality, greed etc.

Let's go down this rabbit hole shall we? The definition of fear is this:

1 a : an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger b (1) : an instance of this emotion (2) : a state marked by this emotion 2 : anxious concern : solicitude 3 : profound reverence and awe especially toward God 4 : reason for alarm

So that lines up with your explanation, but let's also look at the definition of awe:

1 : an emotion variously combining dread, veneration, and wonder that is inspired by authority or by the sacred or

reply to post by logical7


Okay.....
so, yes, I agree, the distribution of wealth is a good cause.

No argument with that.
Like Benevolent Heretic said.....on page 1 (I think it was page 1).

No one here (from what I can tell) is saying the 'rich' do not have an obligation to help those in need.

reply to post by wildtimes

So, you ARE saying that rape deserves the death penalty. Is that correct? Again, is this thread a push for Sharia law? EDIT: It really makes me wonder what your personal experience is with "rape." I have not personally experienced it, nor has anyone in my family.

yes, correct. Its not a push, i believe Sharia is fine and i'l say positive things about it.

People in India are pushing for death penalty for rape, they are not all muslims.
I have no experience about rape, i just respect loved ones of others as much as mine and using the golden rule.
Recently in India a 5 yr old was raped by her neighbour for two days and things inserted in her.
He deserves nothing less than a public execution or will you advocate mercy for him?

reply to post by logical7

Recently in India a 5 yr old was raped by her neighbour for two days and things inserted in her.
He deserves nothing less than a public execution or will you advocate mercy for him?

He CERTAINLY deserves to be held accountable.
But who are you to decide he deserves death?

reply to post by OmegaLogos

If you find yourself in Jihad ... YOU MUST TURN BACK AND FACE GOD OR SUFFER HIS WRATH!

Doesn't the old saying go like this “The best Jihad is a word of truth against an unjust ruler”? So then all Jihads aren't bad.

reply to post by wildtimes

And, a mature and healthy adult will NOT be inspired to "rape" or otherwise commit a sin against another person just due to drinking beer - unless they are already screwed up by their upbringing.

do they have license for only unscrewed people to drink?
As far as i know screwed up people are more likely to drink more.

Also there is Testosterone+unihibited brain.
I am not saying drinking causes rape.
It just increases the chances of rape, violence, rash driving etc.

reply to post by logical7

I am not saying drinking causes rape.
It just increases the chances of rape, violence, rash driving etc.

I disagree. There are plenty of responsible 'drinkers'. Just as there are plenty of 'responsible' atheists, Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc.' Being 'responsible' has NOTHING - necessarily - to do with one's choice of 'religion'. In my opinion.

Immoral people are allowed to be immoral because of a false construct, a man-made society that allows unhealthy decisions to be rewarded.

I would start by exposing people who are responsible for bad corporate or government policies, and then hold them personally accountable.

Did you know that corporations knew for years that cigarettes were causing lung cancer? But they didn't do anything about it. In fact, they gave away free cigarettes to soldiers in their canteens and got them addicted. Do you know how many deaths have been caused by lung cancer and cigarettes?

The only stats I could find were 435,000 deaths/year in the US and ~5 million deaths/year worldwide.

Yahoo Answers

What happened when it was shown that cigarettes cause cancer?

By 1954 the major U.S. tobacco companies had formed the Tobacco Industry Research Council to counter the growing health concerns. With counsel from TIRC, tobacco companies began mass-marketing filtered cigarettes and low-tar formulations that promised a "healthier" smoke. The public responded, and soon sales were booming again.

CNN: Tobacco History

To be honest, that isn't that bad. But the GMO foods could be a whole lot worse, for example.

reply to post by logical7


Getting rid of religion might work, because religion lets people hide under a veil of ignorance as they continue to commit atrocities but are continually supported by their peers.

Getting rid of religion and forcing people to be aware of the natural effects of their actions on themselves and others might do the trick. I'm sure a lot of people would be shocked once they were exposed to the effects of their actions without a barrier to protect them.


Since that sounds kind of sinister, I want to put it in a more positive form. It would help if people were able to learn cause-and-effect values instead of ones without reasoning, that might be outdated, etc.

reply to post by darkbake

Getting rid of religion and forcing people to be aware of the natural effects of their actions on themselves and others might do the trick. I'm sure a lot of people would be shocked once they were exposed to the effects of their actions without a barrier to protect them.

Brilliantly stated.
Yes, remove the 'barrier' of protection. Humanism is the correct way. In My Opinion. We are all connected, and responsible for one another's well-being.

reply to post by wildtimes

Do I think the actual (possible) "creator" changes? No. But, the RELIGIONS certainly change "God" around to suit their motives....there is no question about that.

I am talking about the "Creator"

ok fair enough, religions give different idea of same Creator.

Do you know the Islamic idea of God?

How can you say that and not suspect
the same about the Qu'ran
(Mohammed's) version of it?

he was illiterate. He recited the Qur'an and it was memorised by his companions.Qur'an kept being revealed for 23 years.
Some amazing mathametical miracles and word repetitions were found when much later it was written and verses numbered.

Simply, Qur'an makes sense. I am not believing in Qur'an because i am muslim, i am muslim because i am amazed by the Qur'an.