Introducing "Bibleman"! And a host of other kid-oriented indoctrination tools

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I just now saw your post here. Sorry I missed it before.

Here is why I care:
I can only hope that at some point you calm down enough to look at this hugely important issue from a wider angle. I don't know how much personal insight you have - how well you understand the way you came to your beliefs, and why you "bought in" to the thinking you share with us -

but no amount of urging people to shut up about it is going to work on people who are becoming more and more DISILLUSIONED as to the whole picture. I, and others, are trying to help people really SEE that they are being fooled, and used to propel the worst sort of control over people

I just looked at your profile (having been "foed" at last)..
and see that you fight for children's mistreatment. Do you NOT SEE how this stuff damages them?

You can fight it, and you fighters are legion, indeed, but I would implore you to at least TRY to see things from outside your normal mindset. You may experience terror, grief, rage....but you will be disabused of the manipulation that you and so many millions of others have been subjected to.

Recovering From Religion is just ONE of many sites dedicated to helping people deconstruct and detach themselves from the destructive dogma of Punitive-God Religions (and other religious styles as well).

Overview
If you are one of the many people who have determined that religion no longer has a place in their life, but are still dealing with the after-effects in some way or another, Recovering From Religion (RR) may be just the right spot for you.

Many people come to a point that they no longer accept the supernatural explanations for the world around them, or they realize just how much conflict religious belief creates. It can be difficult to leave religion because family and culture put so much pressure on us to stay and pretend to believe the unbelievable. If this is you, we want to help you find your way out.

Don’t let people convince you that you just didn’t have ‘enough’ faith, or that you just haven’t found the “right” religion. RR has support groups that meet monthly all over the US, with groups starting in Canada, the UK, and Australia, and new faces are always welcomed. If you have questions or need more information, feel free to browse our site, join us on Facebook or Twitter, or contact us for more information!

One man working toward this is Dr. Darrel Ray. He is one of the people I met over the weekend at the conference I attended. I bought his book "The God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture". (click the link to go to the website for the book). I'm reading it now - and it gives a very powerful example of how Religion, as a "meme", infects people. It behaves VERY MUCH like a virus, and reading about it in terms of biology and psychology makes it all even more clear.

The organization is dedicated to the following:

What We Do
1. Establish and support local Recovering From Religion groups throughout the US, Canada and UK;

2. Provide practical resources for people recovering from the influence of religion in their lives;

3. Educate the secular communities about the tremendous need for providing this encouragement

and support to people who identify as recovering from religion.

I hope anyone reading this forum will be encouraged to look at it. Even just typing "recovering from religion" in the Google Search bar comes up with site after site dedicated to helping people SEE how they've been duped and damaged.

I wish you all the best.
Also, Please see this post a few back on How Religion Threatens Children with Death
That is why I care.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by BlueMule
I'm just a little annoyed by the whole 'religion is an invention' meme.

If religion wasn't invented, I don't know how it came about... I don't understand the annoyance with the idea that people, at some point, invented religion. Human beings created religion.

Was your hypothetical scream of the crowd invented by the crowd?

reply to post by MrJohnSmith

Looks to me like a nice little earner ! ( But that wouldn't be the motive, would it ? ) And in an unimpeachable cause too ! Amazing merchandising / film rights potential !

The capitalists can't fall off here. If you challenge the credentials of " Bibleman " you're challenging Christianity, and no one would dare to do that ....would they ?

A "nice little earner"? No. It's meant to point out how dangerous this Far-Right Christian Fundamentalist thinking is for the upcoming generations.

When I posted it I knew some would take offense. That doesn't make any difference. This information needs to be out there, and the REASONS for protesting it need to be addressed and stated loudly and clearly.

Those members who continue trying to ridicule and discredit me are grasping at shadows. I know perfectly well who I am, what I am doing, and WHY. They won't listen to me, and they like to tell me how they won't listen to me, and try to make me out as some subversive fascist "commie" which could NOT BE FURTHER from the truth. They try to trip me up and call me a hypocrite. Not so.

I keep posting anyway. I know there are some people who will never listen, and will try to derail and "shame" me into silence. I know a whole bunch about group dynamics, family systems, social constructs, and 'indoctrination'. But whenever I mention HOW I know those things I'm accused of bragging or being arrogant.

The thing is, I KNOW WHAT I KNOW, and there is NO DISPUTING what has been shown factually to be brain-training and indoctrination by organized religion.

It is what it is, and it's getting WORSE, and I don't intend to be silenced.
To be honest, I wasn't sure if your post was meant to be a slam or supportive, but here's my response, either way.

reply to post by BlueMule

Originally posted by BlueMule
Was your hypothetical scream of the crowd invented by the crowd?

No. You said that religion was a "collective reaction to a stimulus". And I was asking you to elaborate and explain, but you just repeated yourself. And now you're just going in circles, answering questions with questions. If you don't have an answer, I understand, but I'm not interested in chasing you around in circles. Besides, we're getting quite off-topic and I don't want to chase you any longer. I don't think you even know why it annoys you that I say religion is an invention. If you had an answer, I'm quite sure I would have heard it by now, but posting esoteric videos and philosophical word games is getting nowhere.

Thanks, but no thanks.

reply to post by Siberbat

Thanks for your post. I'm sorry for the delayed response - missed a few posts overnight and I'm getting caught up now.

I have nothing at all against the peaceful, loving Christians, and those members who have said they never met anyone who is shouting at people that they will go to hell - and all they got was a message of love - are appreciated.

Certainly I am not trying to dismantle or squelch the belief in Jesus's teachings - they are noble, pure, and right.

I AM trying to fight against what I see as encroaching Theocratic Oligarchs who want to make the entire country Fundamentalist Evangelicals, who WANT to "bring on Armageddon", who teach hatred by vilifying other forms of thought and who ESPECIALLY want to tamp down critical thinking, independent thought, and secular progress.

They are real, and they really ARE working to limit self-esteem and creativity - to mold children into little "Soldiers for Christ" like the littles that Hamas dresses up in fatigues in preschool and teach them to hate and kill others.

It's the SAME THING. It's the same level of indoctrination as any other occurrence. Hitler Youth, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, the Islamists - all extremists who become desensitized to the dignity and rights of others.

Bibleman does nothing to teach dialogue, open-minded tolerance, or peaceful coexistence.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Originally posted by BlueMule
Was your hypothetical scream of the crowd invented by the crowd?

No.

Then how did it come about, if no one invented it?

A very young Jon Stewart had a 2 minute segment on Bibleman in 1999, where he kills an agnostic woman:

Video Here

The question is no longer "what would jesus do" but "What would bibleman do!"

Havent laughed so hard in ages, wonderful thread OP.

reply to post by nothingwrong

Brilliantly stated.
Thank you so much for contributing. I think sometimes people only see me as a "hater" and "basher" and a "troll", but my sincere objective is to encourage dialogue, updated theology, and to prevent children from being emotionally, psychologically, or physically abused.

I've said over and over - the truly loving Christians, who teach only a loving or indifferent God, I have no problem with whatsoever. While I am not a "Christian", as don't believe the myths of him being "God" or having resurrected - I VERY MUCH DO try to live by his teachings.

He was not the only master teaching tolerance, kindness, altruism, peace, and acceptance. He made a huge impact on the world, but so have other masters before and after him.

I think we must give our children the option to decide for themselves what they want to believe after being educated in all of the options, and the actual history of how "God" came to be such a powerful idea. They need to learn about the thousands of years of theological development and evolution, and to see the simple message that ALL of the world religions have in common:

Treat people the way you would want to be treated. Listen to them, try to have compassion for their points of view, and be aware that we really don't know that much about the universe or any supposed "Deity" at all.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Glad you're getting a kick out of it.
It really is funny from the secular perspectve.

It's also rather troubling from a social science perspective.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
A very young Jon Stewart had a 2 minute segment on Bibleman in 1999, where he kills an agnostic woman:

Video Here

Bwahahahhaa it's Joe Bob Briggs!

reply to post by AfterInfinity

This is kinda skirting that "Thou shall not make any graven image" thing, isn't it?

No because the graven image thing is about creating an idol to worship it.

reply to post by wildtimes

I haven't read the whole thread yet Wild, but this kind of thing shows you the true mindset of Christian leadership, and Christian capitalism in the world. The almighty dollar, and continued indoctrination ARE their gods. The God they claim to worship, and His "word" take a back seat to keeping the Christian masses brain washed into mindless zombies. Starting young has always been their modus operandi.

When you truly understand how the modern church, and modern government are structured. You will have a hard time deciding which is the microcosm, and which is the macrocosm, of the other.

The true fundamentalists, of course, will denounce Bibleman as a tool of Satan. The rest of the flock will do what they've always done. Be herded by the sheepdogs in the direction they are supposed to go, and be none the wiser.



ETA: Not that the fundamentalists are any less indoctrinated and mindless than the rest of the church, but they see themselves as purists and literalists.

It's no secret that young minds are very influenced by what is given to them to see, view, and interact with. I can see this as a type of brainwashing as I to was brought up in a Baptist church from a very young age. But I now know there is a God as I am older to make decisions. Bibleman is something I thought would have come out a long time ago. Just from what I have seen looks like for followers it would teach young minds about what the Bible says.

reply to post by Klassified


I have my own thing with God going on, partly because the whole organized, meet at the church on Sunday so we can gossip thing got old. That said, this bibleman stuff creeps me out.

Bibleman? I find it sickening. And of course I knew some nutcase christians would come in here, like they did on the first page, and say "Why dislike Bibleman! Muslims teach their kids ____ and _____"

Always pointing the figure at someone else, eh? To christians, muslims are the big bag boogeyman. Of course the religion itself is no worse or better than christianity, judaism, or any of the abrahamic religions. OH, OH, but TERRORISTS the christians shout.

Yea, terrorists exist, but religion isn't the cause. Religion is just used as a tool. There are christian terrorists, muslim terorrists, etc. It just so happens that right now, the world is focusing on the middle east. A few few hundred years ago, christians and the roman catholic church were the MAIN terrorists. Things just flipped around, like they ALWAYS do.



Why does Bibleman offend me? Because indoctrinating young children with religious agendas is in my eyes one of the darkest, more evil things you can do on this planet.

Oh, but, but TERRORISTS. Yea....I don't see any muslim action figures with hand grenades at the local Toys R Us, so its none of my concern.

What happens in other countries is THEIR business. Personally, terrorism is so few and far between in the States, that it isn't a blip on the map.


However, christian indoctrination is a REAL problem we have here.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by guitarplayer

 

I do believe parents still have the right to raise their own children.

Yes, they do!

And, unfortunately, they still have the right to damage their children by telling them they were born worthless sinners, and will go to hell unless they follow certain "rules and regulations"! To browbeat (or simply beat) them into submission. To teach them that everyone else is wrong and condemned.

They still have the right to send them to places like 'Jesus Camp', which only incites them to be violent!

All of that might be okay in your book, but in my book, it is WRONG.

I don't know what part of the country you come from but I do not know any Christian parent that has beat their child and forced them into Chrstianity.

reply to post by guitarplayer


"Spare the rod and spoil the child" was a phrase I heard often during my childhood as justification to beat and bruise me with a belt.

I would say that just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Landover Baptist Church - on Beating Children

Godly Tips on How to Punish and Beat Your Christian Child

"Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being." Proverbs 20:30

1. To begin with, a Christian parent must understand that a child will never learn a lesson unless they are beaten on their naked bottoms until the imprint of the rugged cross is plainly visible on both cheeks. (Proverbs 23:13-14)

reply to post by wildtimes


You may experience true terror and grief when the christians
are finally proven right.
This is a topic I would like to discuss in the morning with a pot
of coffee.

reply to post by wildtimes


I am a fundamental christian and I would never ridicule or mistreat you.
After some of the things that I have read,I would simply ignore you and
shake the dust from my feet.