A question for those who believe in the rapture

reply to post by AQuestion


Well, you did brush up on something that is profound: What if Harold Camping was wrong AND right? You just have to find out what parts he was right and what parts he was off. I think this is the right mentality concerning discernment.

Throughout studying the history of church, I have noticed that all parties, whether they are for or against a certain dogma, will vehemently defend their position, whether it is right, wrong, or both, to the detriment of spiritual maturity. No one ever opens up the possibility of being wrong...

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by AQuestion

 

fact that the rapture will occur before the great tribulation

No disrespect intended.

the problem with these kind of religious ramblings is that if asteroid comes our way and hits earth, you will think it's God's rapture.

Well, I highly doubt an ELE would come as a "thief in the night", meaning most would be unaware.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
I have noticed that all parties, whether they are for or against a certain dogma, will vehemently defend their position, whether it is right, wrong, or both, to the detriment of spiritual maturity. No one ever opens up the possibility of being wrong...

It is true, people with fight tooth and nail to defend what they have been taught. Some people will defend their position even when they cannot use scripture to do so.

I do not say I believe the in revelation or not but there might be some things that can be true but is probably so hidden in the text so the literal believers will not notice it. With synchronicity in full force all is possible.

The things that interest me is the 144000 sealed ones and what they are supposed todo.

www.christiancourier.com...

www.gci.org...

The problems with a pre-trib rapture is it creates a second chance for those who miss the rapture. There was no second chance for the five unwise virgins.

Jesus said He would come again and not again and again.

The pre-trib rapture is a trinitarian doctrine that teaches after the Church is raptured by Jesus, the Father will decide to start accepting sacrifices from Talmudic Jews for salvation. It provides a way for salvation without Christ. It is an anti-Christian doctrine.

reply to post by AQuestion


You are talking about suppositions; nothing real as much as I would like to believe in the saving graces, they are not owned by me or represented by a rapture experience that I CANNOT OWN unto myself. Where does the final flight come from, who denotes it quantifies it, holds my hand and says, "YOU ARE ABOUT TO MEET YOUR MAKER". Where do these ideaforms come from? RAPTURE; to take seriously as the God/human covenant to heavenly repatronage TO WHAT EXACTLY. A gross form triniity?

Originally posted by truejew
The problems with a pre-trib rapture is it creates a second chance for those who miss the rapture. There was no second chance for the five unwise virgins.

Jesus said He would come again and not again and again.

The pre-trib rapture is a trinitarian doctrine that teaches after the Church is raptured by Jesus, the Father will decide to start accepting sacrifices from Talmudic Jews for salvation. It provides a way for salvation without Christ. It is an anti-Christian doctrine.

Yeah..

I've never heard a single person teach that nonsense. If a person believes is a mid-trib or post-trib rapture they have to deny the doctrine of imminency. (To be expecting Christ at any moment)

Paul included himself in the crowd that was expecting to see Jesus return by writing about the rapture using personal pronouns.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by AQuestion

 

so, correct me if I'm wrong, you are trying to debunk religious dogma by finding logical inconsitencies ?

It is a futile effort my friend...if that was your intention. People that believe in the Rapture, can barely put 2 and 2 together. And I'm not talking about math.

Dear MarioOnTheFly,

I am not trying to "debunk" anything. In fact, I said I was willing to accept the idea of the rapture; but, question how we would know.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Dear jmdewey60,

I did indeed mean it as a hypothetical. I do not mean by any stretch to say it will happen or in what order. In truth I am much more concerned about what we do while we are here.

reply to post by ntech


Dear ntech,

I assume therefore that you believe it is either mid or pre tribulation then.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


Dear DelayedChristmas,

Throughout studying the history of church, I have noticed that all parties, whether they are for or against a certain dogma, will vehemently defend their position, whether it is right, wrong, or both, to the detriment of spiritual maturity. No one ever opens up the possibility of being wrong...

I have been talking to two Christians who have very firm beliefs on a pre-tribulation rapture. As I said in my OP, I don't have an strong opinion and don't think it matters. To a large extent, I am asking at what point in time, and if they are correct it would never happen; but, pre-tribulation believers might accept that they were wrong.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I've never heard a single person teach that nonsense.

I have.

If a person believes is a mid-trib or post-trib rapture they have to deny the doctrine of imminency. (To be expecting Christ at any moment)

Your "as a thief in the night" quote in your earlier post I assume is your 'proof text' for the immediacy you are referring to.
That is in 1 Thessalonians 5:2, and is about "The Day of the Lord" which is not about Jesus and a rapture, as much as judgment.
The next verse explains what he is referring to, which was the yet future event when Paul wrote this, of the fall of Jerusalem by the romans in 70 AD.

While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

People around Jerusalem went to the city for protection from what were basically terrorist insurgents causing havoc in the countryside. Once they were in there, the Legions suddenly appeared that did a quick march from Alexandria, surrounding the city and cutting off any exit from it. Then the suffering began, like a woman with birth pains, having no escape other than to go through it.

Paul included himself in the crowd that was expecting to see Jesus return by writing about the rapture using personal pronouns.

Do you mean first person pronouns?
In 1 Thessalonians 4:15, he uses the first person plural, we, for those who are alive.
I don't see that as an indication that he thought that he would be alive, personally, when the end of the world came.
Paul had a habit of illustrating points by using a universal "I" as a rhetorical device.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Dear jmdewey60,

If all that was left were bad people, it would not be a tribulation, but a fair judgment. It has to be for one reason, in my estimation, to teach such a thing, and that would be to promote the ideology of Dispensationalism. Christians are conveniently removed from the world, according to this grand scheme, which leaves the Jews who rejected Jesus, but apparently see Jesus up in the sky when the rapture happens. From that point, on, then this theory resets history back, as if Jesus never existed or there was a such thing as Christianity, and the ancient Israel of the Old Testament has a do-over but without having to accept a loving and kind Jesus, but a new version of a Messiah who is completely different and is a bloody killer who goes to war and enslaves the world to force tribute from the 'nations' to be given to him to enrich the Jewish kingdom in Palestine.

I have asked the same thing in a slightly different manner. The answer I have been given (and I know this is taught in some Christian Colleges) is that after the tribulation, the 144,000 male, virgin decedents of the Israelites will be converted to Christianity and evangelize the world. The belief is that after the current Christians are raptured, there is a new group of converts.

reply to post by AQuestion

. . . pre-tribulation believers might accept that they were wrong.

That is highly unlikely since if they are "firm believers" then by definition, they are cult members of the Rapture Cult, since normal Christianity does not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, nor is it a traditional belief in Christianity but is the teaching of the Dispensationalist cult, invented around 1800, and promoted as a new doctrinal system from that time and for the next couple decades by its inventor, John Nelson Darby.

reply to post by AQuestion

I have asked the same thing in a slightly different manner. The answer I have been given (and I know this is taught in some Christian Colleges) is that after the tribulation, the 144,000 male, virgin decedents of the Israelites will be converted to Christianity and evangelize the world. The belief is that after the current Christians are raptured, there is a new group of converts.

The people who are behind this cult have zero concern for the "lost souls" from Christianity as a result of accepting its heretical views.
The world is owned and run by the bankers, at least in their own minds, and it is an old Jewish banking system which has, guess what, running it, Jews. They have the money and will to get what they see as rightfully theirs, Israel in Palestine as the world capital. It is a small investment for them to build mega churches to spread this belief and easily find willing religious prostitutes to preach it.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Yeah..

I've never heard a single person teach that nonsense.

I have seen it taught here on this board in part or in whole.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Yeah..

I've never heard a single person teach that nonsense.

I have seen it taught here on this board in part or in whole.

Which thread?

I'd be interested in you showing me those posts because other than you just saying that I've never heard another Christian say that. And I've studied Eschatology for almost 15 years now.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by ntech

 

Dear ntech,

I assume therefore that you believe it is either mid or pre tribulation then.

I would say it's early tribulation actually. Based on what I see in the 7th seal what seems to happen is that there is a early tribulation period that peaks with the opening of the 6th seal. When the 7th seal is opened there is a still period of a half hour before the trumpets start. I believe that is a significant amount of time approximately of 5 to 10 years on earth before the trumpets start sounding.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Which thread?

I don't have time to look, however, here is a study...

Will The Church Go Through The Tribulation?

About half way down starts a tract titled THE REAPER IS COMING, by John D. DeHann.

Here is a couple of quotes from the tract in case you don't have time to read all of it.

I confess proudly, that Dispensationalism is the true interpretation of Bible prophecy. First, because it teaches the doctrine of the Trinity, without which it would certainly collapse. Second, because it proves the Father and the Son are two separate persons and have two separate programs in the earth and eternity. Third, because it teaches the divine truth that God the Father is in an unconditional Covenant with Israel, and that the Law is not ended, only suspended or postponed until the 70th week begins.

WHAT TO DO IF YOU MISS THE RAPTURE There is seven years between the rapture and the setting up of the Millennial Kingdom. Those who miss the rapture can only be saved two ways. #1. join the Jews religion and seek to come to the Father by the mercy of animal sacrifices or, #2. Refuse to take the mark of the Beast and have your head cut off by antichrist, and be saved by the shedding of your own blood. The blood of Christ will not save you if you miss the rapture. Only the blood of animals sacrificed by a Jewish high priest or the shedding of your own blood can then save you. You can miss this awful time by accepting the Lord as your Savior today.

reply to post by truejew


Do you ever post anything that isn't from Pastor G. Reckart? The man runs a diploma mill for an ABTC DOCTORATE degree where he admits in his own words the students do not receive the standard educational requirements for that particular degree. All you need to do is pay Reckart 1,300 dollars and pass his interview process.

Although they may not have achieved secular educational levels to graduate with a degree, they have achieved a great knowledge in the Word of God. These men have chosen to represent the Oneness Doctrine in the face of being called a cult leader, or even railed upon because they rejected the trinity doctrine. ... This deserves honor!

SOURCE


Dude, you can't get more fraudulent than that.