Boston, The old guy, dead mans trigger and other unanswered questions or comments from the scanner.

You guys do realize that police, working with incomplete information, in a high stress situation, make stupid mistakes just like anyone else, right?

As an example, there was one reported “suspicious bag” that ended up being umpire gear left on a ball field.

You also realize that the scanner will switch frequencies to EMS, Fire, and other services, and pick up their calls as well?

I wouldn't over analyze the scanner comments.

reply to post by Magnivea


Thank you so much for contributing....I will wait a while then compile the question marked info in one post here on the thread...
Respects to you.

"man down" pg 120 of thread
post by Ayana
(I heard that too on the scanner)

"someone with a device on him and at gunpoint 60 to 70 years old" pg 140 of thread
post by Rodinus

from about pg 141 of the thread it is fast paced and nail biting stuff.

"still working on the dude with the robot" pg 150 of the thread
post by usmconslaught

"they are getting everyone away from an address who is not SWAT team" pg 152 of the thread
post by ipsedixit

"four robots working on one guy" pg 161 of thread
post by mikemk1976

oh and it was JUMPER STREET not Jumper.

"black hawks inbound" pg 168
post by covertblack

"we need multiple batteries, cardboard box etc" pg 169 of thread
post by capone1

that is all I will look for at the moment...but it is all there and real edge of your seat stuff.

A answer ?

Well there were 9000 people running on adrenaline, and coffee. Running from call to call reporting anything they saw to dispatchers. The confusion was running rampant for them also.

That is like going into a crowded bar or party, and trying to explain everything everyone is saying.90% of what was heard just doesn't apply. I am sure someone will want to know about each and every person that was stopped with a backpack to.

Originally posted by defcon5
You guys do realize that police, working with incomplete information, in a high stress situation, make stupid mistakes just like anyone else, right?

As an example, there was one reported “suspicious bag” that ended up being umpire gear left on a ball field.

You also realize that the scanner will switch frequencies to EMS, Fire, and other services, and pick up their calls as well?

I wouldn't over analyze the scanner comments.

I agree with your opinion and obviously some points raised will fall within your reasoning, Im also sure some will not.

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
A answer ?

Well there were 9000 people running on adrenaline, and coffee. Running from call to call reporting anything they saw to dispatchers. The confusion was running rampant for them also.

That is like going into a crowded bar or party, and trying to explain everything everyone is saying.90% of what was heard just doesn't apply. I am sure someone will want to know about each and every person that was stopped with a backpack to.

edit on 20-4-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)

I agree with you and am not necessarily implying anything. I do know that at a few points, mainly Monday evening and Friday, I had anywhere from 2-6 scanners running. All were focused on one specific set of codes (police, fire, ems, state police, etc.) when possible. And by that I mean some Suffolk county codes run together like Boston Fire and EMS.

As I'm sitting here typing I am listening to the news and the reporter is repeating something that was reported last night, but has since been proven incorrect by the actual witness. Its a minute detail, but she's stating incorrect facts, and someone will then take that as proof of conspiracy. In reality its just her not doing her homework before opening her mouth.

Stuff like that doesn't help with keeping the facts straight, and is where conspiracies start.

reply to post by Magnivea


the scanners were cutting in and out quite a lot during the time you mention... not sure if it was a simple issue of 'overload' or perhaps 'offline' = some suggested in the thread that they went offline to another channel for security issues.

reply to post by defcon5


oh yes I agree with you... they raved on and on about the twitter posts even when they knew that it wasn't his twitter account and it was not him posting online during the chaos. shame that they repeat garbage. cheers

Originally posted by Thurisaz
reply to post by Magnivea

 

the scanners were cutting in and out quite a lot during the time you mention... not sure if it was a simple issue of 'overload' or perhaps 'offline' = some suggested in the thread that they went offline to another channel for security issues.

Generally they swtich to another set of frequencies for SWAT use and I admittedly don't have or actively look for the trunked SWAT frequencies. I don't think it's possible for an "overload" unless you're listening to an online scanner like broadcastify. I did hear people were having problems but I didn't encounter any other than Cambridge being shut down.

Originally posted by Magnivea

Originally posted by Thurisaz
reply to post by Magnivea

 

the scanners were cutting in and out quite a lot during the time you mention... not sure if it was a simple issue of 'overload' or perhaps 'offline' = some suggested in the thread that they went offline to another channel for security issues.

Generally they swtich to another set of frequencies for SWAT use and I admittedly don't have or actively look for the trunked SWAT frequencies. I don't think it's possible for an "overload" unless you're listening to an online scanner like broadcastify. I did hear people were having problems but I didn't encounter any other than Cambridge being shut down.

I agree there were gaps in the scanner conversation, but it wasnt a gap that described an old gent with suicide vest and dead mans trigger, and that there were now 4 robots with him...Just to add, I remember a post concerning a tarp over a body at the same time.....I think there are many holes that can be picked in the info we have, or examples of reasonable answers that could be given or will surface...I still think it a good idea to collate them...


Respects

reply to post by captiva


Like I said, I never had an issue. Unless I don't have the answers to the things I asked because of cutoff time that I wasn't aware of. I dunno. I did find some transcripts on reddit that answer some questions to a degree:

EDIT 157 11:55: Apparently the "jumper" was not a person, but an area where a possible bomb may have been which explains why an EOD was sent to the location.

Read from bottom up

EDIT 161 12:02: Suspect is "clear", safe for EMS to approach him.
EDIT 158 11:56: Still working on the old suspect, no updates on his status.
EDIT 154 11:47: Four robots operating on the old man right now. No word on device or explosive.
EDIT 152 11:44: One area that was previously being investigated is clear. Not the old man or jumper scene. EDIT 151 11:39: Second bearcat is arriving at the original scene with the old man.
EDIT 147 11:26: Because it keeps getting asked. The suspect that is being searched by the EOD robots, that is handcuffed, that has the dead man switch, is a 60-70 yr old gray haired man. He was specifically identified as having salt and pepper hair, even the age 90 was thrown out. This is NOT White Hat aka Suspect #2
EDIT 146 11:24: Investigating possible sighting of suspect #2 at different location. (Most likely a false sighting, nothing else was said about this)
EDIT 144 11:22: They said they need to bring in a second EOD robot and a second Bearcat (armored vehicle) EDIT 143 11:19: EOD robot is still clearing the suspect. He will be interviewed after he is cleared.
EDIT 140 11:14: Subject definitely has some kind of device or switch in his hand. EDIT 139 11:11: EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) robot is attempting to remove the jacket from the man right now.
EDIT 138 11:07: Been silent, EOD is on scene.
EDIT 137 11:03: To further clarify, guy with the white hat has nothing to do with this (as far as we know). He is still on the loose. This suspect is an old man (60-70) with grey hair and appears to be holding a dead man switch.
EDIT 135 11:01: Negotiating with suspect (not white hat).
EDIT 133 10:59: Guessing they are still waiting on EOD.
EDIT 132 10:52: Making attempts to block a possible blast.
EDIT 131 10:51: Suspect is shaking his head "no" and trying to arch his back up, speculating that he may be trying to do something with the device.
EDIT 130 10:47: He has something in his right hand that he holding. Last person had a dead man switch. (If someone lets go of a dead man switch it triggers the mechanism)
EDIT 128 10:45: Waiting on EOD to move further. Still no information on if the older man held at gunpoint has any relation to Boston Suspect #2. Has anyone heard how they originally found him or if he approached officers? EDIT 127 10:44: Suspect is being held at gunpoint and is in handcuffs.
EDIT 126 10:40: Waiting on mod position. A different suspect may be found, may have transmitter on him. They are being cautious, white male, 60-70 yrs old. Brown jacket, device is in jacket.

Then, something interesting. I must admit, I did not hear this at all:

EDIT 179 12:53: Again, I don't know what the specifics of 173 are. I'm not holding out. They just started talking and then said 'we don't want this on the air' and then didn't talk about any specifics.
EDIT 173 12:35: They just said something that they don't want on air. Don't write a comment about it.

Strange. Can't find anything after that about the older man until 5 hours later

EDIT 258 5:27 PM: THIRD SUBJECT IS ELDERLY MALE! No White Hat.
EDIT 256 5:23 PM: 2 males in custody. None are White Hat. Third male inside a building, surrounded.
EDIT 255 5:21 PM: A subject was taken into custody. Identity not confirmed.

Links to other 6 parts of thread acn be found on top and bottom of thread. Probably some explicit language though I didn't look.

There are also numerous references to a "hostage taker" that I did not hear. Apparently a lot of this was being done on Boston PD frequencies which I was not listening to at that point, thinking Boston would not be involved in a search ~10 miles away in a different county. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Originally posted by Magnivea
reply to post by captiva

 

Like I said, I never had an issue. Unless I don't have the answers to the things I asked because of cutoff time that I wasn't aware of. I dunno. I did find some transcripts on reddit that answer some questions to a degree:

EDIT 157 11:55: Apparently the "jumper" was not a person, but an area where a possible bomb may have been which explains why an EOD was sent to the location.

Read from bottom up

EDIT 161 12:02: Suspect is "clear", safe for EMS to approach him.
EDIT 158 11:56: Still working on the old suspect, no updates on his status.
EDIT 154 11:47: Four robots operating on the old man right now. No word on device or explosive.
EDIT 152 11:44: One area that was previously being investigated is clear. Not the old man or jumper scene. EDIT 151 11:39: Second bearcat is arriving at the original scene with the old man.
EDIT 147 11:26: Because it keeps getting asked. The suspect that is being searched by the EOD robots, that is handcuffed, that has the dead man switch, is a 60-70 yr old gray haired man. He was specifically identified as having salt and pepper hair, even the age 90 was thrown out. This is NOT White Hat aka Suspect #2
EDIT 146 11:24: Investigating possible sighting of suspect #2 at different location. (Most likely a false sighting, nothing else was said about this)
EDIT 144 11:22: They said they need to bring in a second EOD robot and a second Bearcat (armored vehicle) EDIT 143 11:19: EOD robot is still clearing the suspect. He will be interviewed after he is cleared.
EDIT 140 11:14: Subject definitely has some kind of device or switch in his hand. EDIT 139 11:11: EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) robot is attempting to remove the jacket from the man right now.
EDIT 138 11:07: Been silent, EOD is on scene.
EDIT 137 11:03: To further clarify, guy with the white hat has nothing to do with this (as far as we know). He is still on the loose. This suspect is an old man (60-70) with grey hair and appears to be holding a dead man switch.
EDIT 135 11:01: Negotiating with suspect (not white hat).
EDIT 133 10:59: Guessing they are still waiting on EOD.
EDIT 132 10:52: Making attempts to block a possible blast.
EDIT 131 10:51: Suspect is shaking his head "no" and trying to arch his back up, speculating that he may be trying to do something with the device.
EDIT 130 10:47: He has something in his right hand that he holding. Last person had a dead man switch. (If someone lets go of a dead man switch it triggers the mechanism)
EDIT 128 10:45: Waiting on EOD to move further. Still no information on if the older man held at gunpoint has any relation to Boston Suspect #2. Has anyone heard how they originally found him or if he approached officers? EDIT 127 10:44: Suspect is being held at gunpoint and is in handcuffs.
EDIT 126 10:40: Waiting on mod position. A different suspect may be found, may have transmitter on him. They are being cautious, white male, 60-70 yrs old. Brown jacket, device is in jacket.

Then, something interesting. I must admit, I did not hear this at all:

EDIT 179 12:53: Again, I don't know what the specifics of 173 are. I'm not holding out. They just started talking and then said 'we don't want this on the air' and then didn't talk about any specifics.
EDIT 173 12:35: They just said something that they don't want on air. Don't write a comment about it.

Strange. Can't find anything after that about the older man until 5 hours later

EDIT 258 5:27 PM: THIRD SUBJECT IS ELDERLY MALE! No White Hat.
EDIT 256 5:23 PM: 2 males in custody. None are White Hat. Third male inside a building, surrounded.
EDIT 255 5:21 PM: A subject was taken into custody. Identity not confirmed.

Links to other 6 parts of thread acn be found on top and bottom of thread. Probably some explicit language though I didn't look.

Thank you for the interesting information....Hilighted to me is the fact that they spent 1 hour 7 minutes or more with the older gentleman using from 1 to 4 robots.....this just before the blackhawkes came in. It was suggested by another poster that they may have came in to remove the older gentleman.

Respects

I am sure the Blackhawks came AND LOWERD A GRAPPLE TO HAULTHE OLD MAN AWAY...THAT WAY HE COULD BLOW UP BY HIMSELF WHILE SUSPENDED IN THE AIRS.........
You DO realise the airwaves were jammed with false alrums and ignorant atatements by excited people. dont you?

Not everything going on was related and people were calling everything in.

EDIT 258 5:27 PM: THIRD SUBJECT IS ELDERLY MALE! No White Hat.
EDIT 256 5:23 PM: 2 males in custody. None are White Hat. Third male inside a building, surrounded.
EDIT 255 5:21 PM: A subject was taken into custody. Identity not confirmed.

It's a different guy or you would hope seeing as it happened hours apart

Originally posted by aivlas
Not everything going on was related and people were calling everything in.

EDIT 258 5:27 PM: THIRD SUBJECT IS ELDERLY MALE! No White Hat.
EDIT 256 5:23 PM: 2 males in custody. None are White Hat. Third male inside a building, surrounded.
EDIT 255 5:21 PM: A subject was taken into custody. Identity not confirmed.

It's a different guy or you would hope seeing as it happened hours apart

edit on 20-4-2013 by aivlas because: (no reason given)

I understand your point but would add, the 10 points raised in this OP are not about basic scanner statements. The old gent with vest and trigger/ 4 robots attending was a scanner subject that continued for over an hour.

Respects

reply to post by captiva


He had 2 eods on him a third mill eod team was going to be brought in but were told they weren't needed this was much earlier than the old guy upstairs. apart from that the old guy with suicide vest was on the ground with people working on him so how could he also be upstairs with no one knowing who he is?


reading back through the thread it seems they only had 1 on him and the mill team would of been the 2nd

Again, the guy could have been using something like a Pneumatic Vest or Positive Pressure Ventilation Vest (the modern version of an Iron Lung). Of course the guy is going to refuse to take it off, because it helps him breath, and in the case of Positive Pressure its someone that cannot breath without one (for example someone with Lou Gehrig's Disease). The Police are not always very understanding when dealing with people who have medical issues, and often do not understand what certain medical devices look like.

So if the guy is refusing to remove it, and the cops are not understanding what it is and why he's resisting taking it off, you can see how this misunderstanding would escalate.

Originally posted by defcon5
You guys do realize that police, working with incomplete information, in a high stress situation, make stupid mistakes just like anyone else, right?

As an example, there was one reported “suspicious bag” that ended up being umpire gear left on a ball field.

You also realize that the scanner will switch frequencies to EMS, Fire, and other services, and pick up their calls as well?

I wouldn't over analyze the scanner comments.

I'm a 100% aware of that. That is one of the most important aspects when you make assumptions that forums are faster then main stream media. (I'm not a fan of msm, but am aware of the different roles they play in informing public) Msm has (or should have) a total different kind of responsibilty towards its audience.

Can you imagen major public news outlets would say that they are in no way connected or that they not could be held accountable for the topics they present?

Now live on CNN, Fox or whatever.. WORLD WAR THREE IS ABOUT TO START, POSSIBLY NEXT WEEK TUESDAY 10AM.

Sites like this got themselves covered (from ATS T&C section 4- No Endorsement of User Content. Our Users are solely responsible for all posted Content)

But still it is good to gather the info explore it and where possible confirm or dismiss it.