Today, I am Ashamed to be a Member of ATS

Originally posted by Suspiria

Originally posted by angelchemuel

Thatchers demise couldn't come at a better time for the Tories, if I was paranoid I'd swear it was planned.

I think it couldn't have come at a worse time......as can now be seen with the reactions on the street. Yes, I can see what you're saying, which reaffirms what I said about 'playing into their hands'. I just wish the news stations and newspapers would just shut up now. But they wont of course, we'll be hearing stuff until after the funeral, but by then it will be more and more civil unrest.

I just can't get my head around the fact that people are blaming her for the state our country is in now, forgetting that we had Blair then Brown, and now we have the conservatives again! Albeit a coalition. I have only ever voted twice in my adult voting life (both of which I regret). I was a teenager during the Thatcher reign. I just don't vote. It's my way of voicing what I will say next.

As I have said on another thread, and this is just my personal view, since the dawn of 'civilization' thousands of years ago, politics and religion are the two systems WE ALL stand guilty of pandering to, to the detrament of the majority and advantage of the very few.

There is good and bad in everything, there will always be a division with people taking sides. Maybe I am too much of a dreamer, but take politics and religion out of that equation and all you would have is PURE humanity.

Rainbows
Jane

Originally posted by stargatetravels
Nobody should ever celebrate or rejoice the death of another human being, that goes without saying,

Does it though? I dont believe speaking ill of the dead is any worse than speaking ill of the living, if they deserved respect in life they deserve respect in death, IMO Margrett Thatcher did not, is that shamefull ? These people parade themselves as public figures offering their opinion and doctrine on how we should lead our lives , no one forces them to do this and; themselves and their families fully accept the fact that judgement will be passed by the general public whether that be good or bad , whether in life or death.

These people have not lead hard lives but have often malicously caused hardship to others. I have no sympathy for them or their ilk. I think it is important that it is known that they are unpopular in death so that it may deter other future leaders from similar action. Her legacy as far as im concerned will always be evil and so it should be remembered lest it happens again.

reply to post by Gary29


Yeah because ripping work from under peoples feet, throwing them onto the Dole,then shuffling loads of them onto the sick and then forgetting about them in order to keep the unemployment rates down promotes self reliance does it? Suppose closing the nuthouses down and throwing them back into society and on benefits promoted self reliance too.

I guess we've all convieniently forgotten an era where the jobcenter staff had to be shielded with plexiglass to keep them safe from the frustrations of broken, once proud family men. What about the rotting food mountains kept hidden under the very noses of those families?.

Since when did mass redundancy and the loss of a decent wage to being shuffled onto the adult version of YTS for 50 quid a week and the once great shame of having to settle for handouts to keep the roof over your families head instill self reliance?.

She did the exact opposite...

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Today Baroness Margaret Thatcher died, she was a mother, a wife, a friend and to some a role model. She was also the former prime minister of the UK and many in this country actively hated her politics and polices.

And today she died in her old age of a stroke and then something else sad happened; the nasty people of ATS came out to spread their vulgar and disgusting remarks. I will not name names or threads, the people responsible know who they are and they should be ashamed. It’s not just ATS to be fair, the mass of sheeple on my Facebook and Twitter done the same but I honestly expected more of my fellow members of ATS.

It would seem that expectation was unfounded because today I saw a very nasty side to a few members of ATS that made me feel ashamed to be a member of the same community as these sick individuals. Regardless of anyone’s political disagreements it is not an excuse for to jump for joy over her corpse. As individuals, none of us I would hope would ever cheer as an old lady dies. Yet today because Thatcher was a public figure who lead this country over 20 years ago some of the less that civil members of our community thought it fit to post some of the most vile remarks I have ever had the unfortunate experience to read. These nasty people all came oozing out of the woodwork with their vulgarity and cruelness to cheer with joy at an old lady they had never even knew.

As a fellow member today I hang my head in shame for the first time since Sandy Hook and I have come to realise that there are some very cruel members on ATS. Today these members have shown themselves for what they really are.

I for one despised the political stance that Thatcher supported and I actively hated many of her policies that hit my family hard. But to turn a political view into such venomous hate and joy over hear death, by disrespecting the value of a human life and its passing, regardless of who that individual might have been, I believe is to only diminish my values and political believes. It would seem that some of my fellow members do not my value human life like the rest of us do or our respect for the dead.

O piss off already with your hypocritical tripe.

I already asked you in the other thread "Show me the post where you expressed your disgust with ATS members when Saddam Hussein died".

You never came up with a response. With thatcher however you keep coming back to it over ands over again and now i see you even dedicate a entire thread to it.


Where were you when people danced on saddams grave , bin laden's or kaddafi's ?

Originally posted by Suspiria
reply to post by Gary29

 

Yeah because ripping work from under peoples feet, throwing them onto the Dole,then shuffling loads of them onto the sick and then forgetting about them in order to keep the unemployment rates down promotes self reliance does it? Suppose closing the nuthouses down and throwing them back into society and on benefits promoted self reliance too.

I guess we've all convieniently forgotten an era where the jobcenter staff had to be shielded with plexiglass to keep them safe from the frustrations of broken, once proud family men. What about the rotting food mountains kept hidden under the very noses of those families?.

Since when did mass redundancy and the loss of a decent wage to being shuffled onto the adult version of YTS for 50 quid a week and the once great shame of having to settle for handouts to keep the roof over your families head instill self reliance?.

She did the exact opposite...

She didn't "throw people on the dole". She stopped using hard-pressed taxpayers money to keep unproductive workers in extremely well paid jobs. No one has a right to a job. You either have skills that means someone wants to employ you in productive work. Or you don't. The government doesn't exist as a "makework" scheme.

As for your statement about "closing down the nuthouses". I guess this demonstrates your real views on mental illnesses. Do you consider it just to lock people away for many years in asylums? My father used to run a mental aftercare home, which provided care and accommodation to former patients of these facilities. Many of them had been locked up for decades for such heinous crimes as "stealing a loaf of bread", "liking boys" and "stealing a policeman's helmet". If they weren't insane when they went in, they were after a few years inside.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by MrMaybeNot

 

In another era, she would've been hanged. She represents nothing good and I think she's unworthy of the publicity she's getting for her death. A truely evil person.

Well then aren’t we lucky that times have moved on….. just seems that some people are struggling to catch up with the rest of us.

edit on 8-4-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

In the U.S people are still being executed by law for a lot less then thatcher did.

Originally posted by Rubic0n

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by MrMaybeNot

 

In another era, she would've been hanged. She represents nothing good and I think she's unworthy of the publicity she's getting for her death. A truely evil person.

Well then aren’t we lucky that times have moved on….. just seems that some people are struggling to catch up with the rest of us.

edit on 8-4-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

In the U.S people are still being executed by law for a lot less then thatcher did.

Would you care to elaborate on that statement?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I have to agree with you. But I think your statement here ..." by disrespecting the value of a human life and its passing, regardless of who that individual might have been.... It would seem that some of my fellow members do not my value human life like the rest of us do or our respect for the dead."...is at issue.

I think they lump Osama, Hitler, Jim Jones and others dead like them....into a general category....and then spew forth the venom. These deceased figures are certainly not to be respected for being dead ...nor did they themselves respect the value of life....and killed millions.

It unforunate, and you are right....yet, I dont see any change on the horizon.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Sorry mate but she was an old hag in politics - I had the worst time of my life when she was in rule. She was old, would have died eventually and hopefully did surrounded by people who cared for her in a safe environment.

That's all I can offer.

"She didn't "throw people on the dole". She stopped using hard-pressed taxpayers money to keep unproductive workers in extremely well paid jobs. No one has a right to a job. You either have skills that means someone wants to employ you in productive work. Or you don't. The government doesn't exist as a "makework" scheme.

As for your statement about "closing down the nuthouses". I guess this demonstrates your real views on mental illnesses. Do you consider it just to lock people away for many years in asylums? My father used to run a mental aftercare home, which provided care and accommodation to former patients of these facilities. Many of them had been locked up for decades for such heinous crimes as "stealing a loaf of bread", "liking boys" and "stealing a policeman's helmet". If they weren't insane when they went in, they were after a few years inside. "



Unproductive workers? No one has the right to a job? Are you seriously suggesting people had no skills? Most people had a skill, and everybody had the opportunity to take up a skill until she had her way and you know it. The Government doesn't exist as a make work scheme? Are you serious or just taking the piss?

The Government is there soley to take care of the interests of it's people and country, not itself. That includes making work, but since Thatcher set the standard nobody since has bothered their backside, well that is until now when all of a sudden the Government is making work by stuffing those same people denied a skill by Thatcher into work for your gruel schemes whilst depriving people even more of an actual proper job.

And no, don't start waving your idea of mental health institutions in my face. I'm actually talking about poor buggers who had no idea how to look after themselves, left to rot, getting preyed upon, having their money and drugs stolen off them by people who would take advantage.

reply to post by Rubic0n

"Show me the post where you expressed your disgust with ATS members when Saddam Hussein died".

I was not a member when Saddam died......

and regardless of who has died I think my point about respect for the dead still stands.

Originally posted by Suspiria

"She didn't "throw people on the dole". She stopped using hard-pressed taxpayers money to keep unproductive workers in extremely well paid jobs. No one has a right to a job. You either have skills that means someone wants to employ you in productive work. Or you don't. The government doesn't exist as a "makework" scheme.

As for your statement about "closing down the nuthouses". I guess this demonstrates your real views on mental illnesses. Do you consider it just to lock people away for many years in asylums? My father used to run a mental aftercare home, which provided care and accommodation to former patients of these facilities. Many of them had been locked up for decades for such heinous crimes as "stealing a loaf of bread", "liking boys" and "stealing a policeman's helmet". If they weren't insane when they went in, they were after a few years inside. "



Unproductive workers? No one has the right to a job? Are you seriously suggesting people had no skills? Most people had a skill, and everybody had the opportunity to take up a skill until she had her way and you know it. The Government doesn't exist as a make work scheme? Are you serious or just taking the piss?

The Government is there soley to take care of the interests of it's people and country, not itself. That includes making work, but since Thatcher set the standard nobody since has bothered their backside, well that is until now when all of a sudden the Government is making work by stuffing those same people denied a skill by Thatcher into work for your gruel schemes whilst depriving people even more of an actual proper job.

And no, don't start waving your idea of mental health institutions in my face. I'm actually talking about poor buggers who had no idea how to look after themselves, left to rot, getting preyed upon, having their money and drugs stolen off them by people who would take advantage.


No skills that people wanted. I have the ability to belch on demand, I hardly think that I should be paid to do it though. The government is their to protect the country, through internal and external security (Police and armed forces). It is not there to wipe your backside . Tell me this. Who foots the bill for all these wonderful well paid jobs that the state is supposed to provide? Just please, don't try to tell me that they pay for themselves. The history of nationalised industries is one of waste and incompetence.

Probably doesn't help her cause that the Tories are screwing many people in Britain with the bedroom tax and whatever else they can think of, when the politicians get everything handed to them on a plate via expenses.

When snobby politicians, most who are members of the elite boys clubs don't give a toss about the other classes, Thatcher's legacy for much of the country, and the fact she died in The Ritz, won't bode well with many.

CX.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

At least they were being honest I hate it when people sugarcoat anything.
What's wrong with being truthful?
There aren't many people I hate but I wouldn't shed a tear if the Bushes or Dick Cheney died.
Believe me some people in our world do too much damage to the rest of us.I'm sure not too many grieved when Hitler died.
Nor the many serial killers,baby killers or the people that have caused so much pain to others.
Do you really think that we should all be sad over the death of these monsters that reek havoc with every breath they take? really?

I'm not saying anything negative about Ms. Thatcher per say but I do believe that she caused many issues for a lot of people who aren't going to grieve over her death.
At least they're being up front and truthful...

Originally posted by CX
Probably doesn't help her cause that the Tories are screwing many people in Britain with the bedroom tax and whatever else they can think of, when the politicians get everything handed to them on a plate via expenses.

When snobby politicians, most who are members of the elite boys clubs don't give a toss about the other classes, Thatcher's legacy for much of the country, and the fact she died in The Ritz, won't bode well with many.

CX.

I think it would be extremely difficult to describe Margaret Thatcher as a member of an "elite boys club". She was also the only Prime Minister that I can recall who never took her full salary as PM, and also voted against pay rises for MP's.

I think Morrissey sums it up....


"Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the ivory trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone—and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs-up sign for the British press.

Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes. She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a prime minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it.

Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity."

MORRISSEY.

Originally posted by blupblup
I think Morrissey sums it up....


"Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the ivory trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone—and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs-up sign for the British press.

Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes. She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a prime minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it.

Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity."

MORRISSEY.

edit on 9/4/13 by blupblup because: (no reason given)

It's good to know that Morrissey still hasn't said anything I've ever agreed with.

Couldn't stand the depressing dirge he calls music either.

reply to post by Gary29



Can't stand his music either but he's absolutely spot on regarding Thatcher

I have never heard of such an ironic name as OthrSideOfTheCoin. Doncha think?

Originally posted by Onami
I have never heard of such an ironic name as OthrSideOfTheCoin. Doncha think?

Please do elaborate on that comment?

Or was it just a personal jibe.