USA will LOSE the war with NKorea, this thread will enter history

reply to post by schadenfreude

Logic is missing.......The USA my country, my britsh writer.....are you still angry that we beat your *** and left your Monarchy behind? You are a typical brit...so pompous and full of yourself....oh how you want the USA to fall...well pal, No one has the technology we have, not even you...and China knows it....the boots needs to step on Koreas nuclear facilities and their war room.....obummer is a puss like you, one day all of our Boots here in the USA will step on this inept government.....and you can still kiss my ***....
Ricky revere...."the british ARE NOT here!

reply to post by Ricky Revere

what part of "my country" when I was speaking of the usa's arrogance of being psychotic did you NOT understand
mensa member?

reading IS fundamental.

reply to post by Ricky Revere


Pompous? full of ourselves? every single one of us?
You are no better than the OP with stupid comments like that.

reply to post by Ricky Revere


The British monarchy never let go of the reigns of the USA, guess who controls the fed?

Originally posted by Spartanian

Originally posted by seabag

[...] so I can’t expect you to understand what makes my country great.

For the "outsiders" it would be interesting what americans think that makes their country great. I would appreciate if you could explain it.

As I am a foreigner to you I will only see relativly aggressive foreign affairs. It nearly seems like if I am a foreign country and I don't agree with things US want to get, the US will park some heavy aircraft carriers right in front of my door to "convince" me better make the deal happen. Here we call it "russian collection"

The second thing is, if I look to big cities in your country and in the streets there are "children" fighting to each other with guns to death, I will say the US has a very serious problem. It's not said in my country we don't have any crime, but here we don't have gangs heavily armed killing everyone who is saying a wrong word.

I know with this statements I will be bashed now (" you f...ing US hater" and so on) but as a free person I can have my own opinions. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not a US hater, but in fact and I am only talking for myself, the USA is not heaven and will never be.

edit on 7.4.2013 by Spartanian because: Typo

Absolutely Rad you got it..IMAGINATION,unfettered and free to create whatever we want.We use it in movies we use it in war now we need to stop OUR Nazis from trying it again.WWII was a mistake for you and that is over,,for you.These geniuses with money picked up some nasty characters from that era and is using their skills on the world in secret to go for a new world order.
Which leads me to my second point and a thorn in their side, FREE THINKING. Yes we have our media working this one over pretty good,you should be knowledgable of history and military stuff to catch them,but lately they aren't really hiding any more.

And my third point We don't know of any caste system to traditionally subdue our nature.Money is apparently what some would think could be a dillineator but we really don't care as individuals we do as we damn well please,and that is why you and the rest call us "cowboys" we violate the book to successfully complete missions that means an inborn adaptation skill in the American culture.

It is far too easy to attack us based on our government but the people are what makes us great.
There are A WHOLE LOT more people here than Germany so there are more bad people as well.Good news doesn't make the news over seas. ISOLATED incidents do.Unless we are talking any of those big cities where rude sociopaths are in charge.

reply to post by LogicIsUnderrated


Have you ever seen a map of the Roman Empire? If the US is on a similar path then its a massive fail because if you don't control the land, you control nothing. So they control the governments? Which ones?

America is a friend of no one but America, and if you are an American then congratulations because unlike us in Britain you have a government that is putting your interests on the world stage first. Is the US government masterful at the art of foreign affairs? Nope you are useless at it, like all governments that change every few years.

BUT you don't like militant Islam and where is the bad in that? I don't like militant Islam either and would like it stamped out wherever it flourishes. You don't like NK. Who in their right mind does? What about Iran? Do you think they are a nation led by saints and lovers of small rabbits?

reply to post by LogicIsUnderrated


OP should change the name of this post to: What I "want" to happen…

Lol you must hate Americans well me and society, I think that you
Wish for the worse you made this post just cause you could, yes us Americans
Are not the best of people but our government makes the decision of war
We have nothing to do with that if we lose we lose who cares
Not all Americans are fat that's just being a hypocrit yes that is the way
It looks towards the u.s. with the lady's living off welfare thanks to our government,
But in the end we didn't bagg you or whoever you are in a post, I am not
Mr. All high and almighty, I would say the potential of this stupid war is crazy.
But who are you to judge others but in the end I judged and this is just an opinion that targeted
You and only you mr.blogger!!!

reply to post by schadenfreude

I enjoy reading your posts usually, but with all due respect this "why didn't the germans DO something" is complete horsecrap.

Well, I could have used Mao, Stalin, Napoleon or Ghengis Kahn for all I meant for the example of which man. It's not Obama that's the problem in the big picture anyway. He's the figurehead and the decision maker. He gets the calls and writes the orders. It's his signature over top the President's Title.....Yet...

The Government is run by the bureaucracy and middle to upper management as much as anything above Obama. So even there, it wasn't an Obama to Hitler Comparison. The example was to choose a national fall into extremes SO far beyond the pale of human decency that no one would have to google anything to see what I meant. After all, my comment to follow that would have been really inappropriate in this day and age if not referring to such an extreme period, yet to happen.

...and we disagree as strongly as possible on Stasi vs. American Law Enforcement. At least at this stage. They're building the framework all around us that could go that way in a heart beat and overnight. Or it could never go to that extreme. That's what makes it so debatable about actions vs. anything else. It's potential is clear. It's implementation....is uncertain.

Originally posted by LogicIsUnderrated
Too bad I won't be able to take credit for this thread because most sites like ATS legally own everything original that is written regardless who the real author is.

I didn't take the time to read ATS fine print though.

Lets get to how an empire loses a war

Typical American is a slightly overweight person. Gripping a pepsi or coke (I prefer pepsi) watching CNN salivating at the prospect of USA dropping more bombs in the name of doing the world a favour.

A typical American has never experienced true danger at home, civil war long time ago is like a fantasy from history channel.

When US escalates or calls in CIA and Mossad to pull off another false flag or if Kim really does strike first, if he truly is insane. Regardless how a war starts. USA will go in not just guns blazing, TACTICAL NUKES BLAZING

And US will seemingly defeat North Korea in something like 2 days.

The coke and pepsi drinking American will jump up from the sofa chanting USA USA USA.

And then something will happen, something average American and American government never dreamed possible

China and Russia will see this as the final proof that US really is out to get them by death of thousand cuts (invasion of countries 1 by 1).

China and Russia will start a silent attack on US economy, and silent terrorist attack on US civilians.

Suddenly large cities will have bio-weapons outbreaks, China will try to crash the bond market (which they can do), New York Stock Exchange and Chicago Stock Exchange will close indefinitely to prevent collapse of Dow and Nasdaq.

US dollar will begin a collapse.

Americans will panic

Banks will close.

Marshal Law will be proclaimed.

People like gangs and even ordinary civilians will start shooting guns here and there.

Military will be told to start gun confiscation and FEMA camp placements.

A CIVIL WAR WILL START IN USA

MILLIONS WILL DIE

US will be henceforth known as The Great Whore That fell. Babylon The Great.

edit on 6-4-2013 by LogicIsUnderrated because: (no reason given)

So I can see the chemical and market attacks but you are way, way off base with your belief in the average American. Our Government may be f*cked up, imperialistic, and borderline evil but the people of this country are generally decent, generous, and caring. I'm not sure where you're from but you might want to compare how much our people have donated to disasters around the world compared to yours. I'm talking Haiti, Indonesia, Africa, etc.

Last several times we were attacked (9/11, Pearl Harbor) this country came together and rallied around each other. Yes, there are a lot of fat, lazy, stupid people here just like every country. When push comes to shove, NEVER count out the ferocity that Americans can unleash on our enemies when we come together as one.

Although I in no way agree with the OP that NK would win a war with the US I think it's more than fair to point out that it would in no way be an easy or fast victory for uncle Sam..
How long did it take to pacify Iraq or Afganastan? Many years and troops still being shot and bombed by IEDs...
Vietnam was never won...
How long did the first Korean war last for and NK is still there...
NK has a standing army of over 1 million and the capability of drafting over 8 million even without nukes that's a hell of a lot of firepower and makes Iraq's,Afganastans and Vietnams army's look like a joke.
I think it would be a very very long bloody horrible war with huge casualtys on both sides.
Yes the US has the best war toys in the world but history shows that does not guarantee victory in war.
Rome
The Persians
The Mongels
The Turks
The British
The Germans
How the mighty fall in their arrogance.
I think it would be very sad to see any conflict come to fruition.
No matter the victor it would be very bad for the entire world.

No. It will never happen, and you are just plain wrong. As long as the US are not the aggressors, no other superpower is going to attempt anything at all. The US will not quickly wipe out NK, but they will get them to surrender within a month or two, at the most. At this point, China will swoop in to establish some economic opportunities for themselves, as there is going to be a lot of rebuilding done. China will be busy with that, and will not be interested in either an economic or physical war with the US. Russia, who will actually be losing something by the capitulation of NK, is not in any position for a war, and therefore will do nothing that could trigger a war with the US.

You have to realize that things do not occur in a vacuum. Two countries so far apart cannot go to war without many other countries becoming involved. And there is no country that would attempt to do anything against the US that would be cause for war over what happens in NK. Plus, with NATO and the UN, there is no chance that a superpower is going to risk sanctions against them. It would be too costly to a country like China or Russia. Waay too costly, and they would not even have a way to fund a long term war at that point. It would be bad. But if for some reason war did end up breaking out, the US would not be defeated. First of all, the US would not be fighting on their own.

The events leading up to conflict would cause allies to align militarily with the US, as the US would not be seen as the aggressors in this case. I have mentioned before that one of my greatest hobbies is combat analysis using mathematical models, and the US has advantages in many of the key areas necessary to defeat Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, etc. In fact, one of the countries that the US would have a hard time is none of those I just listed, but rather India, but I will not get into that now, because a war with India does not seem possible in the near future, for various reasons. Too many people think that a war today would not involve ground forces, and would be nothing but nuclear missiles going back and forth.

If this was the case, the US would have a great advantage. China has no real missile defense system capable of stopping incoming nuclear ballistic missiles, and although Russia does, it is nowhere near as sophisticated as what the US has set up in the last decade. The US is more than capable of bringing down ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads, so just because a country fires on the US does not mean they are going to hit them. Not to mention, all of these countries are at such a distance from one another than shooting missiles from Russia or China to the US is not practical, considering the armaments of both of these countries.

And the US Navy vessels armed with nuclear warheads are many more than any of these countries. So for them to attempt to position vessels in missile range of the US mainland is not practical. No other country can match the US in things like number and sophistication of aircraft carriers, submarines, etc. Those are what are really going to count. And this is all assuming war broke out. But it will not.

reply to post by Anonbeleiver77


If China stays out of the way no it won't.
If they don't you're right,so what?
They aren't asking me about it are they? If history holds true then they want another draft and wartime production society so well see.

USA will win the war, no doubt about that but NK could well make it really hard for an outright win. They could inflict a few blackeyes and if it comes to a stalemate, that could very well be a win for them politically.

USA had the mightiest military machine yet lost the Vietnam's war because of political fallout and USSR/China supports for Vietnam at that time. What makes one so sure that those two boogiemen won't do the same again ?

The F-4 was king of sky until the USSR gave the Vietnamese SAM's. Could history be repeating itself ? Shooting down a couple of B-2s is no big deal if those big boys decide to involve themselves yet again.


Remember that China and Russia are playing by the sidelines and they possessed weapons that could very well ends the touted air supremacy of the USA and it will be in their interest to toss a wrench into the American's work.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
No. It will never happen, and you are just plain wrong. As long as the US are not the aggressors, no other superpower is going to attempt anything at all. The US will not quickly wipe out NK, but they will get them to surrender within a month or two, at the most. At this point, China will swoop in to establish some economic opportunities for themselves, as there is going to be a lot of rebuilding done. China will be busy with that, and will not be interested in either an economic or physical war with the US. Russia, who will actually be losing something by the capitulation of NK, is not in any position for a war, and therefore will do nothing that could trigger a war with the US.

You have to realize that things do not occur in a vacuum. Two countries so far apart cannot go to war without many other countries becoming involved. And there is no country that would attempt to do anything against the US that would be cause for war over what happens in NK. Plus, with NATO and the UN, there is no chance that a superpower is going to risk sanctions against them. It would be too costly to a country like China or Russia. Waay too costly, and they would not even have a way to fund a long term war at that point. It would be bad. But if for some reason war did end up breaking out, the US would not be defeated. First of all, the US would not be fighting on their own.

The events leading up to conflict would cause allies to align militarily with the US, as the US would not be seen as the aggressors in this case. I have mentioned before that one of my greatest hobbies is combat analysis using mathematical models, and the US has advantages in many of the key areas necessary to defeat Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, etc. In fact, one of the countries that the US would have a hard time is none of those I just listed, but rather India, but I will not get into that now, because a war with India does not seem possible in the near future, for various reasons. Too many people think that a war today would not involve ground forces, and would be nothing but nuclear missiles going back and forth.

If this was the case, the US would have a great advantage. China has no real missile defense system capable of stopping incoming nuclear ballistic missiles, and although Russia does, it is nowhere near as sophisticated as what the US has set up in the last decade. The US is more than capable of bringing down ballistic missiles armed with nuclear warheads, so just because a country fires on the US does not mean they are going to hit them. Not to mention, all of these countries are at such a distance from one another than shooting missiles from Russia or China to the US is not practical, considering the armaments of both of these countries.

And the US Navy vessels armed with nuclear warheads are many more than any of these countries. So for them to attempt to position vessels in missile range of the US mainland is not practical. No other country can match the US in things like number and sophistication of aircraft carriers, submarines, etc. Those are what are really going to count. And this is all assuming war broke out. But it will not.

I hope your right a few months but I really think your fooling yourselves
Korea, vietnam, Iraq and Afganastan all took years
How is a country with multiple times the army's of any of them going to take less time?
Just dosnt make sense at all...
It's going to take years and years of war and many many casualtys

opening thread
>>>>>>> BS

Originally posted by LogicIsUnderrated
China will try to crash the bond market (which they can do), New York Stock Exchange and Chicago Stock Exchange will close indefinitely to prevent collapse of Dow and Nasdaq.

US dollar will begin a collapse.

Americans will panic

Banks will close.

Marshal Law will be proclaimed.

People like gangs and even ordinary civilians will start shooting guns here and there.

Military will be told to start gun confiscation and FEMA camp placements.

A CIVIL WAR WILL START IN USA

This reads suspiciously like what would happen after official disclosure, that aliens are real and living on mother Earth!

reply to post by LogicIsUnderrated


Its funny seeing all these people deflecting the possibility of America ever falling, The very first reply the guy says "Americans are smarter then that" but truly if they were, they would not be enslaved to 17 trillion dollars of debt to THEIR OWN MONEY.

People are also neglecting the fact, we were never kind to either China or Russia. We have been crippling the USSR/Russia from the 40's, right up to the early 90's and still continue to play whos got the longer stick game with them to this day, and China we termed as Ally only cause it benefited us in times of war and business, apart from that we treated China like our modern day slaves, 70% of the materials you own are from sweat shops in China. This is how we have maintained our standard of living for the past 70 years. These two countries are also two of the biggest purchasers of Gold in the past decade, and anybody who understands economics and finance, understands that you purchase Gold when you lose confidence in ones currency.

The OP fails to realize China and Russia have already waged Economic warefare on the American Dollar, 6 times in fact. In 1999 Russia and China were negotiating with Iraq to purchase oil in exchange for the Euro, in 2003 Libya was offering their oil for the Gold Dinar, in 2005 Iran was offering their oil for the Euro, Syria, and Sudan same thing. Which might not seem like such a big issue, but if your familiar with the term "petro dollar" you know that oil doesn't get exchanged in anything but the US Dollar because our 'ptero dollar" agreement with all the oil baring nations was a Nixon ploy to keep the dollar relevant and circulating on the world market after we abandoned the Gold Standard in the 70's and anything that may disrupt that agreement literally gets terminated (Examples: Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi)

We owe China about 4-7 Trillion dollars to this point, which is ridiculous to think if you consider the fact our American government has sold almost a quarter of its land mass to foreign investors already, this includes infrastructure, highway systems, railroads, business' even sea ports.

So, you would be naïve to think China isn't looking for alternatives to keep their economic growth in a progressive state, because finically, would you invest in a company that lost 2.8 TRILLION dollars last year? Probably not, unless your what they call a "sucker."

But as far as war goes, all Flag Waving put aside. We have been in a constant state of war since Europeans landed in North America, theres a war happening a stones throw away in Mexico, over 60,000 people have died in the past 3 years, and that's a low estimate. We are constantly at war because we choose to police the world, our current state of war isn't as violent as it was in the 1920's-30's- and 40's but its military conflict either way you look at it and if history teaches us something, it should be violence can escalate very quickly because Blood demands Blood.


In times of peace, you prepare for war, in times of war, you fight!

Originally posted by LogicIsUnderrated

Originally posted by Osiris1953China seems to distance themselves from NK. Unless NK invades South Korea we most likely will not be involved in a war with NK....even China wants to stop their development of nuclear arms. If we do have to go in there we will probably have Chinese approval.

I see this kind of Mainstream manipulation all the time, and it works.

This is one of those beautiful little lies, like the one saying All the other Islamic countries have no love for Iran and would love to see Israel and US take them out.

Where as the TRUE FACT IS, puppet governments of Israel and US do support attack on Iran, but the people of those countries don't.

But the mainstream neglects to tell you that part of the story, they just simplify for the little people.

Same with China and NK,

? Several Islamic countries are not fans of Iran. Consider that two islamic countries, Iran and Iraq had an 8 year war against each other. Islam is not a monolith. Look up Sunni vs Shia.

It does not look like North Korea has done much so far.

Testing a missile or a nuke is not a war.

It all looks like bluster probably to extract concessions from South.

I do not think US will lose a war like this.

We ignore one big factor - support of North Korean people for their Government. These people have been terrorized for 60 years. They have suffered through and through.

It looks more like a collapse of North Korea, which may be something desired by China itself. Chinese are very shrewd people. They know a united Korea may not see so much value for USA staying in the Korean peninsula.