Converted to Islam, girl shows how she looks in a head covering.

I'll post the clip, but I have two questions on this:

1. I thought women wearing any kind of body covering was not part of the religion. Is it written in the Quran somewhere?

2. Please have a look at the comments on this youtube page. So many of them are saying how beautiful the girl looks with her hair covered up. I thought the whole point of body coverings were to hide a woman's beauty. No?

Originally posted by jiggerj
So many of them are saying how beautiful the girl looks with her hair covered up.

Nope. Way more beautiful without the scarf.

gotta love a girl that comes with a towel to mop up.

reply to post by jiggerj


When a woman converts to islam, does it mean that she WANTS to be subservient to men?

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by jiggerj
So many of them are saying how beautiful the girl looks with her hair covered up.

Nope. Way more beautiful without the scarf.

I didn't ask that!

But,
you
are
right.

For some reason, that brought to mind this:


The whole "hide the women to keep men from being tempted" thing just seems ridiculous to me.

reply to post by jiggerj

Originally posted by jiggerj
1. I thought women wearing any kind of body covering was not part of the religion. Is it written in the Quran somewhere?

The book is one thing... The religion is another. And, as with Christianity and the bible, it's all in the translation... Wearing a head covering is part of the social aspect of Islam.

There are things modern day Christians do and don't do that don't appear in the bible. The Quran speaks of the "garment of righteousness". Many interpret that to mean a head covering.

Christian women also wear this garb.

2. Please have a look at the comments on this youtube page. So many of them are saying how beautiful the girl looks with her hair covered up. I thought the whole point of body coverings were to hide a woman's beauty. No?

Covering the head is more about being modest.

Some thinks she looks beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Originally posted by jiggerj
1. I thought women wearing any kind of body covering was not part of the religion. Is it written in the Quran somewhere?

The book is one thing... The religion is another. And, as with Christianity and the bible, it's all in the translation... Wearing a head covering is part of the social aspect of Islam.

There are things modern day Christians do and don't do that don't appear in the bible. The Quran speaks of the "garment of righteousness". Many interpret that to mean a head covering.

Christian women also wear this garb.

VERY observant! I would never have thought of the nun's habit.

reply to post by jiggerj





I have no idea what is in the Quran...

But I was always under the impression that they covered up to avoid the unwanted

attentions of men other than their husbands, who were unable to control themselves!


Those that do not wear the full face covering are usually very well made up with

much emphasise on the eyes....seems to me like a 'contradiction in terms'

reply to post by adjensen


That's a fake. No Date of Birth and her height is 6'3"... ??? A bunch of info missing.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I know, it's an obvious Photoshop, I just remembered it when the matter of Muslim headwear for women came up.

I have no idea what the answers to your questions are Jigger. Although your OP made me think of this from the bible.
1Corinthians 11:2-16

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.
6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.
7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man.
9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?
15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her[a] for a covering.
16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

A little lengthy I know, but Paul wasn't teaching anything new. It was an old tradition when he addressed it in his epistle.

All I can say is, we have one hell of a long way to go as a species. I really do wonder if we'll ever make it before we exterminate ourselves permanently.

reply to post by Klassified


Hey Klassified!

What do make of this?

10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels

reply to post by windword

You must be referring to the angels part, because I know you already know what I think of the first part of that statement.

"...because of the angels."
There has been much heated debate over Paul's addition of these words. Some think Paul was making reference to the fallen angels who mated with human women, which of course, is how the Nephilim came to be. So basically, he was telling women not to tempt the angels as happened before the flood. I say nonsense to that.

I think he was speaking of modest and reverential attire according to tradition for the time and area he was addressing. In another verse in Hebrews, it is stated that men have entertained angels unaware. I think Paul is playing off of something similar to get his point across. Does that make sense to you?

There are other arguments on this verse, but those are my thoughts.

reply to post by Klassified


Well, I know that there were certain sects of Christians that gathered assemblies of angels. Paul hated those people and called them proud and puffed up, because they claimed to have seen and talked with angels who contradicted what Paul was preaching.

Perhaps these women used their hair to attract angels? Putting flowers in their hair and perhaps swinging it around in dance.........

reply to post by windword

Well, now that is an interesting thought. Since he would have likened what they were doing to paganistic practices, and abominable before God. So I think you have a valid angle. It's something I hadn't considered that he might be referencing there. Well done.

Paul has always mystified me in some ways. His actions didn't always seem to match his teaching. And I think he took the "all things to all men" angle to an extreme sometimes. On the one hand, he didn't allow women to speak in the church, or have authority over men. Yet on the other, he made deacons of a few women. So much for not speaking in church. A deacon has to be able to teach and preach with authority.

ETA: Sorry Jigger. I'm seriously not trying to hijack your thread.

reply to post by jiggerj

When a woman converts to islam, does it mean that she WANTS to be subservient to men?

I could quote Ephesians 5:22 and ask
"when a woman converts to Christianity, does it mean she WANTS to be subservient to men?

But you're an atheist, so never mind.

Instead, let me ask you... when a woman go out in public in revealing clothes does it mean she WANTS to be seen as a sex objects?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Covering the head is more about being modest.

Yes.

Its very ignorant to think that only muslim women have this whole head covering thing.
Women in many cultures around the world cover their head...
Here are some examples-

Hindus



Sikh


Jewish


Amish


Mother Mary has always been depicted in a head covering

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Instead, let me ask you... when a woman go out in public in revealing clothes does it mean she WANTS to be seen as a sex objects?

Is yes the wrong answer? I'm thinking yes, or at least she wants to be seen as attractive.

As Benevolent Heretic says, it is all in the translation and interpretation. There are two separate instances in the Quran that people take into account on this subject. One (Surah Al-Nur, verse 31), which, while discussing the situation of what to do when you go to someone else's house (ask permission, give salutations and wait for the response, etc.), it then, after exhorting both men and women to lower their gaze and guard their modesty, says (with regards to women) to "not display their adornment except what is apparent" (as close as I can translate "la yubdina zinatahunna illa ma zahara").
It isn't exactly clear what it means by adornment, but reading later in the same passage could suggest it to be jewellery. It is also not so clear what "except what is apparent" refers to, it could have been an arabic expression, it could be something specific, it could be everything.
The other passage (Surah Al-Ahzab, verse 59) speaks of the wives and daughters of the Prophet, and the women of the believers to draw their "outer garments" over themselves while out and travelling, so that they would be known, and not harassed. The word used here for "outer garments" is "jalabeeb", which today (jilbab) means this sort of cloak type thing that covers the head and neck and upper body, but it is probably a fairly recent invention. No idea what it originally could be, although some hadith suggest it covered the face.

Personally, in this day and age, whatever your interpretation of the verses, I find it a bit disturbing the amount of pressure put on women against wearing such things (especially in Europe), under the guise of "freeing women". Seems a bit contradictory to free women by imposing what they can and cannot wear.