Yes, guns should be illegal. And...

reply to post by garbageface

Did you just quote the whole OP without reading it?

You are obviously pro-skUB.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Originally posted by garbageface
Keep on fighting to take away current rights because you don't agree with them. I dare you, keep on doing it. One day they'll come for something you don't want them to take away.

In the words of Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty, or give me death" and that does include a death scenario of somebody shooting me. Get a helmet, people.

By chance are you being sarcastic?

We also have the inalienable right to read. Please take full advantage of that right and read the OP.

reply to post by rockintitz


You forgot the most obvious preventive measure....

Make murder illegal... and then murders will no longer happen!

Maybe... Gasp.. I just thought of this.... Maybe we should make CRIME, ILLEGAL!

Yes there are many other causes of death that far succeed gun violence. Although I disagree with your point that guns should be banned. Violence is a part of the human condition, we have been beating each other to death with fist, feet, rocks, sticks, swords, arrows, muskets, cannons, single action, double action, lever action, bolt action, semi-auto, fully auto, 2000rpm, 4000 rpm, you get the point, weapons since the dawn of man. People evolve, warfare evolves, nature remains the same....there will always be good there will always be bad, civilized and uncivilized. This is fact there is no other interpretation. Disarm the good and the bad will prosper, arm the good and you level the playing field. That is all.... to survive is to win.

Hey OP, guns are legal here in Canada. Anybody over 18 here can legally purchase a hunting rifle, shotgun or pistol (pistols require a special permit, however.)

Assault rifles aren't allowed though.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is, why don't we have the high murder rates like the USA does? Why don't we have people going on killing sprees a few times a year like the USA does? That leads me to believe that guns aren't to blame.

reply to post by rockintitz


This is a very neat set of numbers, but you have left some "gun death" numbers out I see.
Lemme help you out.
Democide, GOOGLE it.
Let's just take the "estimate" from wikipedia of 262 MILLION.
Sure this estimate could be off, so lets knock it in half (a very generous discount imho).
So we have 131 MILLION murders that ALWAYS happen after a country is disarmed.
How many of these other causes would have to be added up and for how many years to even come close to democide?
Point blank OP, you are either an idiot or a schill.
So, which is it?

We have the 2nd amendment.

The top cause of death in this country is from the Medical establishment. Needless surgery, prescription drugs, secondary infections in hospitals, Doctor mistakes, Vaccinations, etc. Check out Mike Adams work.
860,000 deaths per year by the medical profession. Tops heart disease. Plus they can't cure anything... Doc

reply to post by rockintitz


I appreciate what you are trying to point out but it would be a lot better if you put it in the full context. 11,078 deaths in one year should be multiplied by the average lifespan of 78 years in the USA en.wikipedia.org... which is a bit over 850 thousand. 315,596,000 is the current population of USA en.wikipedia.org... So your chance of dying by being shot in a homicide is 0.27% during your life time. Thankfully that number is still low but it isn't showing the full picture.

The question really is how likely during a person's lifetime in the USA will they personally be a victim of a crime where a gun was used? This includes shootings of all sorts, but also where a gun is used but not fired. The rate, per factcheck.org... is 55,554 Non fatal gun injuries a year, + 138,336 Gun Aggravated assaults, +122,300 Gun Robberies each year. That comes out to 327,268 gun related crimes in the US per year. Multiplied by the lifespan and divided by the population as above that come out to a bit over 8%. Of course all of that is very simple math and to do the job right it would need statistical sampling, rate declines of crime over time, population growth rates, demographic shifts etc. But for me 8% is a good enough number.

The flipside is how many crimes are stopped by people having a gun for defense? www.ncjrs.gov... does a lot of mental gymnastics to come up with 108,000 times a year as a low, reasonable estimate. Personally that still seems really high to me but the point is that at lot of the time having a gun allows the person to stop a crime from occurring to them or to the people they are protecting. So on that count owning a gun is a good thing.

So what can be done to stop guns from being used in crimes? I think this next chart gives us a really good clue en.wikipedia.org...:Firearmsources.svg shows where federal inmates get there guns. 1/3rd of the time its from family or friends, and 25% of the time they buy the gun. The rest of the time is by some illegal activity. That means that only 25% of the guns can be restricted through federal purchase controls like the ones we have in California. 75% of the time the felon's will get their guns from some other source. I actually think the California screening/waiting period is a positive thing, and I would have no qualms about it being implemented nationally, but we would be just fooling ourselves to think that it would affect more then 25% of the gun crimes. The key is the 35% of the time it comes from friends or family. Its unlikely that friends/family will stop letting felon's borrow there guns without an incentive. If we want to stop friends and family from allowing felons to take/use/borrow their guns, then friends and families are going to have to share in the punishment for the crimes. Lets say 10%. For instance if you don't keep your gun locked up, and your 18 year old takes the gun and uses it to rob a bank, then you get to face 10% of their prison term. So if they get 20 years, you get 2 years as an accomplice. If it was used to murder someone, you get 10% of 78 years, or a 7.8 year sentence. That seems to me to be about the only way to stop friends and family from being such a big source for weapons to felons. Doing those two things, might, just might, do something to reduce crime.

reply to post by AntigravityField


By using your logic and multiplying all the leading causes of death, I'm sure we can both agree there are still many other problems we should be dealing with first.

I like alcohol, I like cigarettes and I love guns. It's who I am it's what I do.

reply to post by rockintitz


Suicide used to be illegal in England en.wikipedia.org... and failed attempts or the families of those that did die could be prosecuted. So don't think a new law like this could not come into force.

If a law like the now repealled one could make money I would not be surprised to see it eventually.

reply to post by jpmail


Wow I have never heard of that. Goes to show ya how regulations can just get out of hand.

The only effective way to ban firearms is to pass a constitutional amendment that nullifies the second amendment. Anything short of that will lead to insurrection at best, and total civil war at worst. Yes, yes, I know all the Leftist dribble about how "right-wing wackos" can't hold out against the modern military. I am closely related to three serving members, and they all say the same thing: if it happens, at least 50% of the military (and police) will be with the "insurrectionists". My county sheriff has already stated that if they are required to confiscate personal firearms, they will simply arrest and detain federal law enforcement agents in their jurisdiction.
The forces of the "legitimate" government of the American colonies tried to seize weapons stockpiled by the people once before. Maybe one of our UK participants can remind us how that one turned out.
If it happens, it will be much more like the Spanish Civil War than the American Revolution. It will be gruesome, hideous, and, at least for me, there will be no noncombatants.

Originally posted by Theflyingweldsman
reply to post by Magister

 

This is how people who use SKUB view the world..Link

How can we let this happen to our children?

Ummm....WOW...someone must have slipped some SKUB in my meatloaf cause that link just made my head hurt...That was like having the spins while standing...Or massaging my gag reflex.

YouSir

reply to post by rockintitz


I have only read a small part of your opening post.I need another
cup of coffee in my system before I can really respond to this thread.
What I have read so far can only be accomplished if the U.S. Constitution
has been totally run through the shredder by our current government.
There are more LAW ABIDING citizens than criminals,who do you think
will be disarmed first?

Lest anyone forget....

SKUB is legal in all 57 states.

Click here for more information.

Interestingly the one figure that is not in your list is Road Traffic Accidents in the US account for 33,000 deaths.

Originally posted by templar knight
Interestingly the one figure that is not in your list is Road Traffic Accidents in the US account for 33,000 deaths.

But people don't want to give up their precious cars!!

They will badmouth guns all day until they are blue in the face, but try to tell them that vehicles actually result in more deaths and they will clam up. Nobody wants to take the subway to work lol.