So in a SHTF is this allowed...really????

reply to post by Phoenix

Farther outlying towns will blockade routes through their area in self protection and further attrit the bad element if attempts are made to pass through.

You can bet on that. I've already planned out where to "create" some traffic jams to somewhat isolate the area and funnel any potential traffic.

I'm actually kind of hoping we have some kind of minor thing, like a storm or something, that will give me and the neighbors a bit more of a bonding experience, and sense of working together, before anything more serious came down the pike. Helping each other clear away some brush, repair fences, that kind of thing...something minor, but enough to see the wisdom of banning together for something worse.

reply to post by Gazrok


Ah yes thats very smart get all pally with your neighbors, learn their plans and find out what they have to survive and then when the SHTF take it all off them!

MAHAHHAA

just kidding.... but i bet some one might do this in a crisis.

Be careful who you let into your prepping world!

reply to post by saltdog


I understand that, with prepping, there comes a lot of moral conflicts... that's why I don't obsess.

Because, rather than lose my morals, I'd prefer to die.

However, if I have the opportunity to defend and care for loved ones, I'll take it before I hand over my life. It's all give or take, moral back bone, mixed with logic, etc.

It's all just a big gamble, and who knows how often your morals will be challenged. But I say, prep for the worst, and hope for the best.

For the folks who think they will survive by victimizing others: "talk is cheap."

Most criminals are not big on planning ahead (that's what makes them grasshoppers, instead of ants). They usually don't have much discipline either, being moral relativists at heart.

They lose out over the long term. They may prey on the sheep for a season, but the sheep will in time rally around a "strong leader who will save them."

You'll be teaching the sheep. Every time you raid a home, and wipe out its inhabitants, you'll be teaching the neighbors to set up a perimeter, to organize patrols, to set traps. Most of all, you'll be teaching them to find a "regulator" who will fight their battles for them.

A generation has apparently grown up without ever seeing High Plains Drifter

The failing of the would-be predators is that they always despise the meek. But the meek will inherit the earth.

Predators always forget that among the laws which vanish are the laws which guarantee the rights of the accused.

Enough said.

Originally posted by allenidaho
reply to post by saltdog

 

Saltdog, the original poster, is discussing the morality of breaking and entering / theft after the SHTF. But let me give you a non-shtf example of that.

Back in 2006, I worked out in Dutch Harbor / Unalaska in the Aleutian Islands. One weekend, three of my co-workers borrowed our Supervisor's boat to go fishing in one of the many remote coves around the island. So they pulled the boat up to a beach, tied it off to a chunk of driftwood and went looking for a good spot to cast their lines from shore.

Several hours later, the tide had come in. And the driftwood they had tied the boat to had drifted out to sea along with the boat. So they were trapped in the middle of nowhere. If you've ever been to Dutch Harbor, you are probably pretty familiar with the highly impassible terrain. So they were stuck.

The three of them weren't sure which direction to go, so they picked a direction and started walking. It was slow going. But the benefit was that at that time of year, the sun didn't go down until around midnight. But the temperature dropped to around 30-degrees Fahrenheit. It was cold.

The three men finally came across a remote cabin. They had to strip down and cross a very cold run-off river to get to it. So they did. And hypothermia was starting to set in. They got to the cabin and broke in, in order to survive. The cabin was fully stocked with food and other supplies. So it pretty much saved their lives.

They had no ill intentions. They just didn't want to die. Luckily the cabin also had an emergency radio. They were able to contact the coast guard and were eventually picked up. They did leave all the cash they had and an apology note in the cabin.

On top of that, the boat was also found drifting a few miles out to sea, just by chance. So my supervisor wasn't too upset about it.

If they left $$ and took care of the cabin ...and actually respected the other persons property..great no harm no foul.....this tread is directed towards the people that don't prep and say hey if the SHTF I will just steal everything and be a robber and a thief, because I can....it is for the ones that are not respectful of other peoples property and think that hey 20 min after TSHTF they can throw rocks through windows and loot stores because the power is out, and the store is only taking cash because of no power...these are the same types of people that riot in the street when there city wins some type of championship ballgame...it is the people that have no reguard for anything except for themself, they aren't about there family...none of those types of people are...and the people you mentioned about the fishing trip and the boat, well those people were respectful, thankful and were not just going out to take anything they could because they felt like it...I probably should of made the original post a little longer to state that....however the responses to the tread are very eye opening and sad...to see how bad this country has degraded itself with the morality of so many people that think a life and a livelyhood are just simply OWED to them....this is truly not the country that I knew growing up...

Originally posted by tovenar

For the folks who think they will survive by victimizing others: "talk is cheap."

Most criminals are not big on planning ahead (that's what makes them grasshoppers, instead of ants). They usually don't have much discipline either, being moral relativists at heart.

They lose out over the long term. They may prey on the sheep for a season, but the sheep will in time rally around a "strong leader who will save them."

You'll be teaching the sheep. Every time you raid a home, and wipe out its inhabitants, you'll be teaching the neighbors to set up a perimeter, to organize patrols, to set traps. Most of all, you'll be teaching them to find a "regulator" who will fight their battles for them.

A generation has apparently grown up without ever seeing High Plains Drifter

The failing of the would-be predators is that they always despise the meek. But the meek will inherit the earth.

Predators always forget that among the laws which vanish are the laws which guarantee the rights of the accused.

Enough said.

Do you really think that ex special forces guys spend their days and nights thinking and dreaming about prepping for when the SHTF...of course they dont...those guys have the tools in their heads to see them through the toughest of times and if that means scooping out yer children's eyeballs with a spoon for something to eat then that's what they will do......trust me..when the SHTF real time...howdie Neighbour goes out the door...it's kill or be killed...

Originally posted by Soloprotocol

Originally posted by tovenar

For the folks who think they will survive by victimizing others: "talk is cheap."

Most criminals are not big on planning ahead (that's what makes them grasshoppers, instead of ants). They usually don't have much discipline either, being moral relativists at heart.

They lose out over the long term. They may prey on the sheep for a season, but the sheep will in time rally around a "strong leader who will save them."

You'll be teaching the sheep. Every time you raid a home, and wipe out its inhabitants, you'll be teaching the neighbors to set up a perimeter, to organize patrols, to set traps. Most of all, you'll be teaching them to find a "regulator" who will fight their battles for them.

A generation has apparently grown up without ever seeing High Plains Drifter

The failing of the would-be predators is that they always despise the meek. But the meek will inherit the earth.

Predators always forget that among the laws which vanish are the laws which guarantee the rights of the accused.

Enough said.

Do you really think that ex special forces guys spend their days and nights thinking and dreaming about prepping for when the SHTF...of course they dont...those guys have the tools in their heads to see them through the toughest of times and if that means scooping out yer children's eyeballs with a spoon for something to eat then that's what they will do......trust me..when the SHTF real time...howdie Neighbour goes out the door...it's kill or be killed...

EX Special Forces..where did he say that??? He didn't ...but since your so smart, and know about SF please tell me what they do or don't do for prepping...I would really like to know....oh and how do you know this? Did a friend of a friend or your sisters, ex boyfriends, brothers, mothers hairdresser tell you about it????

reply to post by Hefficide

Morality is a luxury for those who have a comfortable control of their environment and circumstances. In chaos it is opportunity and discretion that lead to survival - not only for oneself, but also for those in ones sphere of influence.

the trouble i have with this philosophy is that you may survive, but at what cost?

i'm vegan by choice because i witnessed the needless suffering of animals, and i'd rather starve than inflict that on others.

this idea that there is nothing worse than death, and therefore anything that keeps a person from death is permissible, has dangerous consequences.

i wouldn't have any moral qualms against looting a store and taking only what i need to survive (it would be a relic of the old corrupt world), but i wouldn't do so if it would cause unavoidable harm to others. if i was desperately in need and i saw a group of people who could help, i would ask for help, not rob them.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Sure, but you aren't most people...and, without being in that position, hard to argue what you would or would not do to survive.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol



Do you really think that ex special forces guys spend their days and nights thinking and dreaming about prepping for when the SHTF...of course they dont...those guys have the tools in their heads to see them through the toughest of times and if that means scooping out yer children's eyeballs with a spoon for something to eat then that's what they will do......trust me..when the SHTF real time...howdie Neighbour goes out the door...it's kill or be killed...

Most individuals with appreciable "special forces" experience (not the wash-outs) have

A) substantial preps

B) a highly developed personal moral code.

They have spent years thinking about the issues of what they will do and what they won't do; far more so than the average ATS personality. Special forces train their officers in the classics; any one of them can tell you what the first of Sun Tzu's Five Fundamental Factors is, when formulating a plan of action.

you're*

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


As a vegan you may (an assumption on my part), but may have the ability to identify edible plants. Thereby keeping yourself from absolute starvation.

But what would you do if you were starving and asked that group for help? If they offered a chicken leg or piece of beef, believe me, your vegan convictions would go out the window. If they refused to help and sent you on your way, you WOULD do anything to survive, including theft.

No one is going to willingly sit down and starve themselves to death. In other words, easier said than done.

Edit: And if you have kids, with less fat/muscle for the body to feed on, and you know they'll die before you... Yeah, you'll do whatever it takes to keep that from happening.

Originally posted by saltdog

Originally posted by Soloprotocol

Originally posted by tovenar

For the folks who think they will survive by victimizing others: "talk is cheap."

Most criminals are not big on planning ahead (that's what makes them grasshoppers, instead of ants). They usually don't have much discipline either, being moral relativists at heart.

They lose out over the long term. They may prey on the sheep for a season, but the sheep will in time rally around a "strong leader who will save them."

You'll be teaching the sheep. Every time you raid a home, and wipe out its inhabitants, you'll be teaching the neighbors to set up a perimeter, to organize patrols, to set traps. Most of all, you'll be teaching them to find a "regulator" who will fight their battles for them.

A generation has apparently grown up without ever seeing High Plains Drifter

The failing of the would-be predators is that they always despise the meek. But the meek will inherit the earth.

Predators always forget that among the laws which vanish are the laws which guarantee the rights of the accused.

Enough said.

Do you really think that ex special forces guys spend their days and nights thinking and dreaming about prepping for when the SHTF...of course they dont...those guys have the tools in their heads to see them through the toughest of times and if that means scooping out yer children's eyeballs with a spoon for something to eat then that's what they will do......trust me..when the SHTF real time...howdie Neighbour goes out the door...it's kill or be killed...

EX Special Forces..where did he say that??? He didn't ...but since your so smart, and know about SF please tell me what they do or don't do for prepping...I would really like to know....oh and how do you know this? Did a friend of a friend or your sisters, ex boyfriends, brothers, mothers hairdresser tell you about it????

Ooohh, get you getting your knickers in a bunch because someone said something on the internet...lighten up man.

reply to post by 2ndthought

i do know some edible plants in my area.

as for being vegan, i have a problem with how animals are treated on factory farms. very inhumane and abusive. i would have less qualms against eating a wild animal killed cleanly, or eggs produced in an ethical manner. i would look for alternatives before doing that, but i will not eat products from tortured animals.

Sometimes in a no-rules fight, that guy with no guns or big knives at all might be the most dangerous. He'll readily back away from a direct confrontation, and seem to be no trouble at first. But it doesn't mean that he's not going to stand his ground and not fight back in his own particular way. An anticipated raid on a pantry might be dealt with in a similar manner as a varmint infestation. Will bandits think ahead to have food tasters, or will they realise it too late when the headaches, stabbing pain in the sides, and nausea kicks in? (That might even take a week and causing them to go down clueless.) Or perhaps if some hostile group doesn't keep watch very well during the night, a bucket of this and a bucket of that poured in the same spot, or perhaps a rag soaked in something-or-other tossed by their camp might mean they wont be much of a problem the next day. Volatiles of various sorts are pretty obvious to the pyro inclined (some things also have interesting properties in regards to auto-ignition), and mechanical or gravity traps may be left by the more devious and engineering inclined.

It's not that glorified, and at times it seems unfair and quite underhanded, but in the history of warfare brains usually wins over brawn. A SHTF situation shouldn't be that much different.

I think if you want to survive in the long run during a SHTF, it's better to be rather polite to those who you're dealing with. Particularly if you don't know them. Being overbearing and trying to assume authority may not go over too well, and should be avoided. (When all rules go out the door, some folks may enjoy their new-found freedoms. Don't do stuff that'd rapidly wear out your welcome.) Remember that acts of kindness are not weakness. Try not to be too much of a burden if you can't readily be on your way to wherever. And if it turns out that you're not too useful and plan on beeing a mooch, you'd better have some good redeeming quality to make up for it.

reply to post by HomerinNC

I know I wouldnt be able to survive in a SHTF scenario, esp if it happened while I had my son.my #1 goal would to be to protect him. I figure I'd join up with a larger community to ensure our safety.

Nothing wrong with that plan.... Sounds like you'd survive better than you think.

A 30.06 with a good scope will work just as well on a
looter as it does a deer.

That's why you want a good sniper nest like a second story window or a tree blind set up.

Dig a dozen graves on side of your drive and leave them open, except for one or two which should appear recently covered. Put a board on the filled looking ones with a date and description of the person and what they did to get shot. Nobody will be coming in your driveway anymore