So in a SHTF is this allowed...really????

not saying at all to steal etc. but be logical if you know a city or area is abandon for some reason and you found yourself wondering in it get what you need and move on.

Originally posted by Strawberry88
You seem to think because you claimed something as yours its actually yours, and indeffinitely so? Well its not, you might have been the one who inherited the land, perhaps even bought it, only because you had the opportunity before someone else. Its not yours to be honest, its everyones, you just claimed it.

I cant prep, yet. Im young-ish, I dont own a house, I dont own land, dont own guns, I know how to grow food, build stuff, etc, but how exactly do you suggest I do this in a rented house with a 10x10 foot court??

Sorry to say this, but people claiming every single bit of land as their own are what caused this and imo are what will possibly cause a collapse, its either "know your limits, the other 7billion people need some too" or society/government needs to provide what people need. Im sadly currently one who needs what others provide, I dont have a choice.

No, its not right to take from others, but its not right to take a forest for yourself and then expect when lawlessness is back, everyone is going to continue respecting that piece of paper with your name on it

First off I earn and work for what I get and have, and so by what you are saying ...I can walk right in and take all your things that you have in your home ...and its ok because you don't own them, you just got them first.

Some are saying yes, its ok to do that or you should hide your animals better...I am not getting into IF other people are there with me or IF there is security...all I am saying is that there are a lot of people like you...thinking it is ok to take from others....interesting that your already getting handouts now, are you lazy or whats your excuse for people like you? I am supporting you already....I guess you give a person a fish... VS ...teach a person to fish...AMAZING

reply to post by saltdog


1 can see your points saltdog and they are valid. Just seems if a city is quarantined for some reason and some wondered in it for goods or needs that all within quarantine areas is game for retrieval and it would take some type of being to get upset if their property already quarantined is beiong used for and by others WHO NEED IT . If any misunderstood 1.

reply to post by saltdog


I am fairly well prepared at home. Generator,well, water purification, food; however, if I my family was out, and my area was hit, all that preparation was for naught. I would be forced to try and survive the best I could. I don't know maybe my camping experience would come in handy, then. The point I am trying to make is this, NOW I got thrown on the other side.

The thing is we can prep all we want, but the circumstances of the disaster, could drastically change our situation.

If and when The SHTF It's every man/woman for themselves...if it means My families and my own survival depends on Stealing someone else's stuff then so be it.....
In fact, if someone does steal your stuff then it's your own stupid fault for not being one step ahead of the game...you never prepped for thievery.???.....Stupid, Stupid, Stupid..

Like cutting yourself deep, Miles from nowhere.....you made a mistake that could so easily have been avoided now you're gonna pay....Big Time.

Maybe the question is, how far do you go to get your stuff back....remember, your own life could be at stake here....

Gotta laugh really.
You spend part of your life preparing for when the SHTF and you go and leave the door unlocked....something ironic about that scenario..

Prepping by hoarding or prepping by planning to run away is going to be perilous either way.

The sheer mass of people that will be scared to death, unprepared and desperate for food and water will make the shtf event so unpredictable that almost all prep will likely to be futile in the long run. Chaos and anarchy will throw the best laid plans out the window.

A social meltdown type of shtf event will be easy to predict if you are aware of the subtle signs and a bug out might be the best option. City dwellers will be at the mercy of gangs of predators if they wait to long.

A natural global catastrophe....prayer would be your best bet along with a handful of pills and a bottle of Jose Gold. Blessed sleep...

Nuclear holocaust, bio/chem attack....those left alive will envy the dead.

I have a plan, a dirt bike and a stocked cave with a small spring, very isolated. I doubt if I'll ever be able to use it but someone might find it and be able to survive. More power to them!!!

Perhaps if we put our efforts into peace and justice; might be a better use of our time and resources....nah, doom porn is so much fun....

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
If and when The SHTF It's every man/woman for themselves...if it means My families and my own survival depends on Stealing someone else's stuff then so be it.....
In fact, if someone does steal your stuff then it's your own stupid fault for not being one step ahead of the game...you never prepped for thievery.???.....Stupid, Stupid, Stupid..

Like cutting yourself deep, Miles from nowhere.....you made a mistake that could so easily have been avoided now you're gonna pay....Big Time.

Maybe the question is, how far do you go to get your stuff back....remember, your own life could be at stake here....

Gotta laugh really.
You spend part of your life preparing for when the SHTF and you go and leave the door unlocked....something ironic about that scenario..

Where did it say that the door was unlocked???? It didn't.

Anyway, with the comment about
if someone does steal your stuff then it's your own stupid fault for not being one step ahead of the game...you never prepped for thievery.???.....Stupid, Stupid, Stupid..

OK fair enough...just remember the door is a revolving door and what comes around goes around...
This tread is actually assuring me of what I was wondering about...thank you, I guess the people that we supply with an existance now, will be the ones that will think we need to continue doing that in a SHTF...
Good thing I am a farmer..a lead farmer.

So SHTF - OK

The bad elements will run rampant for sure thats a given, in fact I think many are awaiting the day.

Has anyone asked for how long though?

Jump forward about 48 hours after SHTF and roads are clogged with broken down or out of fuel autos, gas stations, convenience stores, pharmacies and grocery stores are stripped as well as most any big box store anywhere near any metropolitan area.

The bad elements have a huge target rich enviroment to work within just inside a 20 mile radius - probably enough targets to last weeks if not months.

Mind you though the good people in those environs will quickly learn strength is in numbers and begin to attrit the bad element - the longer they have the more organized they will become.

Outside the 20 mile circle one has to assume the bad element can plan logistics well enough to provide food, water and fuel as well as clear roads and properly defend themselves as they do so.

Farther outlying towns will blockade routes through their area in self protection and further attrit the bad element if attempts are made to pass through.

As rural areas are reached if at all these bad elements will face not only direct opposition but also indirect action such as sniping, ambushes and roadblocks and other measures that will weaken and demoralize them.

Point here is I belive the normal everyday gangbanger will burnout quickly in self inflicted mayhem and will not be able to plan much further than the next days victim.

Theives and murderers have no honor especially amongst themselves and once the spoils dry up I see them turning on each other within their respective territories.

In the end I believe few will have the smarts, discipline, logistic planning and tactical know how to become the oft feared roving at free will groups mentioned.

Thats not saying they wont exist just not as predominant as thought, the ones that do will be dangerous indeed as they will by necessity be emulating military movement and tactics.

See the funny thing is..I was curious about the mindset of people that are saying that whatever they see, they can take or have.
Thats good to know, that people really feel like that, and would be honest about it now, and openly admitting that they are living off the system and just because you worked for something and bought it (but wait you just got it first, it doesn't really belong to you) that does not make it yours....very interesting train of thought.

I am now happier than ever...atleast now I can grasp the type of mindset, that the people have, that will be doing this....and the world would be a better/safer place without them...thats really good to know.

You have given me reasons to be thankful..thankful that I have more pride, self esteem, and a sence of self worth...it is amazing. Thank you.

Security windows, and film. and doors are available and aren't that expensive. then if your lucky enough to have a basement partition a section off with concrete blocks and get a vault door or another security door with a lock and put your food, and water there.

If some worked and earned all their lives they know security is paramount, and would take steps to mitigate the risk.

As most people also know never keep all your eggs in one basket and always take security precautions.

So in a shtf and the the owner of said property is dead do people just pass it by?

They have no means of determining that.

Wouldn't like it, but if I needed supplies i would take advantage.

Oh it's called survival for a reason ain't gonna be nice, aint gonna be pretty.

reply to post by saltdog


The true property law is you only own what you can protect.

If what you have is yours by righteous acts, then maybe God will help you protect it.

Otherwise, good luck with all the fences you may put on God's land.

It's the me/mine crowd that drives the takers to do what they do. If everyone shared freely, we wouldn't even be faced with a shtf scenario.

So... if TSHTF, 90% of people die, we are just supposed to leave useable items and needed supplies to rot?

If someone isn't guarding something, and there are no signs that a person is currently occupying the area, why would you NOT take any and all supplies to survive?

For how long? 500 years later nobody will touch anything because it might possibly belong to someone else via some convoluted inheritance system?

If TSHTF bad enough that raiding and looting are widespread, it's bad enough where the terms looting and raiding simply mean "surviving" and survival is done at any costs.

It doesn't matter how much you prepare, you'll NEVER be prepared for everything, let alone have enough of everything to survive the rest of your life, or support your children and their lives, etc.

Take your stuff with you or hide it, that's all you can do to keep it. It's not an American thing, it's a human thing, if I'm going to die without a sip of water, and there is a house with some bottles of water, duh, I'm going to take that water. Why wouldn't you?

interesting responses.. .... . scenario related to post CLARITY: city hurt somehow your in a city near or surrounded by locked area. You feel need to find safety outside area you within because of data coming in of ills nearing so you HAVE TO enter or cross thru locked area. Now within locked area are beings concerned with what's theirs or wishful for some other who may need that they find.

Personally 1 wouldn't care if I built bunkers and stockpiled needs etc., and couldn't access because I was say 500 miles away for hopefully some if NEED make use. The actual SHTF scenario who knows the dynamics but the who is instigating them from locations some don't even feel exist related to existence overall. So the many WELL thought plans are great attempts but its survival genes activated at these points and this is why ALL ways need thought to preserve the species then eachselves (goods) . As far as the uso and ufo of course if abandoned RELAX

NAMASTE*******

For all you "My stuff is my stuff and stealing is bad, Types"...here's what happens when the SHTF for real..

Google The Bielski Brothers and what they did when the SHTF for them....When it comes to survival you do what you have to do, full stop, even if that means Killing another Human being/enemy and Taking all His Stuff then so be it.

en.wikipedia.org...

In the Immortal words of Gloria Gaynor.." I will survive, I will survive, as long as i know how to steal i know i'll stay alive"...or something like that...

Then again, maybe some people have different ideas of what is meant by the term.."When the SHTF"...I have no illusions...

IF the SHTF be prepared to kill or be killed for a can o' beans.

Humans become mighty dangerous once they miss 3 meals in a row.

reply to post by Komonazmuk


Is that a DayZ reference?

Idk if you know the game DayZ, but I suspect that society will be a lot like it, after the shtf event.

People already look at each other as suckers they can profit from, but after the event, everyone will be an enemy with a potential can of beans in their pack.

dayz survival tactics

Well its all about the same thing, sure whats yours is yours by law now, when theres no law, its the person who has it that owns it and thats that.

Ironic that a prepper would be unhappy about another person trying to survive (in a way ) - if you are worried about people shooting your cow, put it where they cant get to it. You cant expect desperate-to-survive people to observe the same law, respect for property and human courtesy after SHTF, i mean people likely wont instantly become cavemen overnight, but what they might consider 'fair' when theres no 'official' rules to abide or enforcement of it WILL change.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
If structured society collapses, after 90 days, the survivors will be left -- meaning those somewhat capable of attempting true survival. Personally, I plan to stay hunkered for those first 90 days which I also think will be the most violent and chaotic.

This is the best advice i think, EVERYTHING you want to use for your survival should be locked up/underground/safe/vault/hidden etc. and if it gets stolen, the PREPPER failed to prepare for that eventuality.

reply to post by Hefficide


I agree that discretion is sometimes the better part of valor, especially if you are responsible for the safety of others.

Other times, if opportunity presents itself, removing an obvious threat further down the line could also help to keep your group safe...it depends on the situation as you say.

But to answer the OP specifically...

The scenario you paint, could equally apply to a gang of outlaw types running riot, or a starving family looking to feed themselves...while the end result remains the same, i.e. your supplies are gone - the two situations are completely different aren't they?

Would you class the 'outlaw type gang of thugs' raiding your supplies the same way as a family looking for food to feed themselves and their children?

Hunting down people to get your supplies back is one thing, after all, your own survival is at stake, and you need supplies, but going after people for some kind of revenge for what you see as stealing from you is another thing entirely...revenge like that, is liable to get you killed...and your dependants too.

Look at it from the other side of the coin...if you and your group were the ones without, perhaps because your supplies had been stolen or damaged earlier on in the SHTF scenario...and you came across a stash of supplies and equipment that was obviously put there by someone else...what would you consider to be the right thing to do then..take the supplies you desperately needed to survive, taking them from someone esle (who may already be dead, or displaced for all you knew) or leave them alone?

I think we ALL know what we would do with the supplies to feed our starving families don't we...does that make us bad people for using supplies that may be abondoned, lost, maybe never going to be claimed or used by the owner due to their own unfortunate circumstances of being captured, killed or whatever?

No...i'm afraid it doesn't...it makes us survivors.

So once civilization crumbles all empathy disappears? If this were true Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals would not have co-existed and interbred.

There are no morals or integrity when your very survival is in question. Human beings will do anything to survive, thats just our nature. Every cell in your body will do whatever necessary to keep breathing. Trust me, I survived the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina in the early 90s and have seen man's ugliest side