So in a SHTF is this allowed...really????

I have read on many treads here and other sites, about people breaking into homes, cabins, and taking whatever they see...in a SHTF.
Honestly do you think thats ok?
Whatever your breaking into, taking, or destroying...well thats someone elses property.

What if you prepped for years and had things set up and all ready to go, you get your family/friends and head out.
You get to your cabin and someone is in it?
You get to your car and see the windows broken out of it. Your camper has the door ripped off and there are foot prints in the mud or snow....would you follow them and get the person that did that to your property?
What if your in the barn or shed and see someone smash the window out of the truck and climb in, then try to start the tuck to steal it... because it is a SHTF and there are no laws its ok to do that then...right?
Even better, your in the cabin/ house and you hear a gun shot real close to you. You own all the land within a half a mile and it was without a doubt a shot from someone on your land, but no one has permission to hunt it but you, and then you see that someone shot your cow in the bottom of the pasture and is cutting it up...what would you do then?
People you can try to say, it is ok to do that and say whatever you want to justify it to yourself, but let me tell you a cold hard fact...ITS NOT OK!!!!
If you FAILED to prep, thats all your fault...yours and yours alone...and whatever someone would do to you for thinking its ok to steal, destory, or raid there personal things...well you get what you get. What would you do if it was you that someone was doing that to????

reply to post by saltdog


In a situation of lawlessness, such as I assume most SHTF scenarios to be, in circumstances like the one described the answer is ultimately dependant upon the specifics of the situation. For example, if I am the only male in my group, and the vandals happen to be four or five well armed men - I might simply leave well enough alone and leave. Then again, if I have a tactical advantage ( high ground and surprise ) I might ambush them and kill to protect my group.

Morality is a luxury for those who have a comfortable control of their environment and circumstances. In chaos it is opportunity and discretion that lead to survival - not only for oneself, but also for those in ones sphere of influence.

No but that is what this welfare society has taught us how to do. Most americans nows seem to live off someone else's money and/or hard work. Just remember "you didn't build that!"

reply to post by saltdog


I'd be pissed, I'd defiantly kill someone.

If you don't have the means to protect yourself and your assets, all you're doing is prepping so someone with firepower doesn't have to.

I wouldn't turn to looting unless it appeared said loot was abandoned. Still risky though, because I would surely shoot to protect my food and assets in a SHTF situation.

reply to post by Hefficide


Heff said it right...

Who ever said life was "fair"?

However, those folks doing this are taking a big risk...of getting shot. Personally, if I am going out on a supply run, post SHTF...I'm looking for abandoned targets. Getting in a firefight without modern medicine? Even a nick can be deadly.

Whether its right or not it will be a reality.

Those who have prepped will be the first targets. People will form roving gangs and just take from you so your best option is to either join up with more people who have prepped then those attacking you and hope you survive the gun battle or try and hide.

People thinking they are going to disappear into the woods and not run into people are going to be very sorry. Heck, other people who had the same idea may try and kill you to take your stuff. It will not be a friendly world.

If you think your going to hole up in your house or cabin or cave with your supplies and not have people trying to get to it your in for a shock. All civility will be gone.

You need to be mobile and able to survive off the land wherever you go.

It will be exactly like the Hunger Games....people killing people until only a few are left.

reply to post by saltdog


what do you not understand about Sh@@ Hit The Fan.

many people see it as, a end to civilization as we know it. any or all laws will become useless. a state in which you have to kill or be killed, how does one know that that car he just found with a ton of goodies in it belongs to someone. how does one know that this empty cabin where no one is around belongs to someone out hunting or scrounging for some other stuff. how does one know that that cow out in the middle of the field, belongs to you.
no trespassing signs could have been put up, before the bug out out, or the grid went down or the nukes went off.

should i risk my life going around looking for the owners, before i take something, risking that something one else might come along and take it before i do which in turn causes me to lose my life.

now if i come up on someone who has something i need or want, i certainly wouldn't try to take from them unless i knew they were a bunch of murderous bastards. i would just be on my way and hope that maybe they would help. but i think it safe to say you will see a lot of people who you would never think of being selfish turn that way real quick.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by saltdog

 

In a situation of lawlessness, such as I assume most SHTF scenarios to be, in circumstances like the one described the answer is ultimately dependant upon the specifics of the situation. For example, if I am the only male in my group, and the vandals happen to be four or five well armed men - I might simply leave well enough alone and leave. Then again, if I have a tactical advantage ( high ground and surprise ) I might ambush them and kill to protect my group.

Morality is a luxury for those who have a comfortable control of their environment and circumstances. In chaos it is opportunity and discretion that lead to survival - not only for oneself, but also for those in ones sphere of influence.

Ah, I am reading this differently. There is a vocal group of people on the internet who actually PLAN on doing this raiding crap. Instead of preparing in any way shape or form (other than guns and ammo) they have decided to go nuclear as a primary plan of action.

I have seen internet posts where people plan on raiding Mormon Church paper records for addresses, plans to whack their neighbors, raid stores, etc. It is shameful.

Instead of spending $10 a week on emergency food, they have decided to go criminal at first opportunity with the BS justification that it is "survival".

Hopefully most of these idiots will off themselves on each other as they fight for the same Dollar General store.

Information to know:

They Will Take Everything If You Don’t Stop Them: Ten Things You Must Do To Defend Yourself

www.shtfplan.com...

Monsters of Anarchy - Post Collapse Security Considerations
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Hopechest


Exactly. People think "Oh, I'll just disappear into the woods and hunt and live off of the land." Yup, you and 150 million other gun owners. Everything would be hunted to extinction pretty quickly and you'd surely run into many people unless you're in the absolute most remote areas, and even then, no guarantee.

Your best best bet is to join a group. Strength in numbers.

reply to post by Hopechest


First targets will be stores. Grocery stores, pharmacies, sporting goods, etc.

Most preppers will be in rural areas, so will take some time for folks to get to them...then, the US is a big open place...that's a lot of blind walking for maybe nothing. Most people will stick to urban areas for looting, at least until they are gone.

Lone preppers will be big targets, but groups of organized preppers, will likely be more trouble than most want to handle.

Personally, I'd rather add one to the group, than have to shoot them, Earn their keep, earn our trust. Once someone has a steady meal coming, a roof over their head, and some kind of quality of life, they won't be itching to fight.

There is a vocal group of people on the internet who actually PLAN on doing this raiding crap. Instead of preparing in any way shape or form (other than guns and ammo) they have decided to go nuclear as a primary plan of action

If they are smart, they'll prey on the lone and the weak. If they try to assault a prepper compound, there will be casualties, and chances are, the compound is family, so they will kill the attackers to the last man, with no remorse if any of theirs are even harmed.

If you think your stuff may be stolen then protect it, have a secret switch that controls the fuel so they cant turn over your truck, keep your important stuff hidden so people will wander around and say 'theres nothing here of use' and leave, good planning involves planning for f-up's so while your uncle is supposed to be on site looking after the place but he's gone and broken his leg and is in hospital getting it fixed when the S hits the F for example

But really in a S to the F situation you have to consider any situation, it doesn;t matter how mad it may seem but if theres a chance someone may do it then plan for it and generally i'd say that the worse you consider the rest of the human race the better you will be prepared for as much as you'll fight for whats yours there will be people willing to fight just as hard to take it from you

reply to post by Gazrok


Yes your right of course. Those supplies will not last long though and I'd imagine L.A and places like that will become ghost towns fairly quickly.

Definitely the best chance of survival is to form large groups, mini-societies, that are willing to work together and protect one another and share resources.

If you do plan to go solo though I would recommend learning how to live in the most harsh environments, preferably very cold ones because most people will not try to make a living in that type of situation. The desert is another option but I know plenty of people who are very adept at living in that environment so its risky.

Another option is what I'm doing and heading far far out to sea until things calm down and people have had a chance to form safe havens. Hopefully when we come back there will be a nice little sea port with friendly people in it.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie

 

reply to post by saltdog

what do you not understand about Sh@@ Hit The Fan.

many people see it as, a end to civilization as we know it. any or all laws will become useless. a state in which you have to kill or be killed...

should i risk my life going around looking for the owners, before i take something, risking that something one else might come along and take it before i do which in turn causes me to lose my life.

...but i think it safe to say you will see a lot of people who you would never think of being selfish turn that way real quick.

Of course in a survival situation one does what they can. If I were stranded and happened upon an empty cabin with some supplies I would likely need to utilize some of those resources, but I would be mindful of making reparations to the owners when rescued. There are many situations I may be more likely faced with before a full-out SHTF would ever occur - that scenario is possible but very unlikely. I expect though, long before a true SHTF would actually break out it would more likely be a fart in a windstorm that would trigger a lot of bad behavior.

I would hope the preppers here were not just readying for TEOTWAWKI but for any of a number of lesser situations that do not warrant such extremes. I believe I could be a constructive and positive force in aiding my community in troubled times long before needing resort to cannibalism, literally or figuratively.

reply to post by Gazrok


Based on your picture, I won't be joining your group.

Survival is all or nothing! Close does not count! If you can't protect your stuff it will be taken. Sorry, but that's just the way it is! Examples are riots, natural disasters, war. And these are mini-SHTF's. Civilized behavior is a thin venier that gets striped away when the SHTF.

You seem to think because you claimed something as yours its actually yours, and indeffinitely so? Well its not, you might have been the one who inherited the land, perhaps even bought it, only because you had the opportunity before someone else. Its not yours to be honest, its everyones, you just claimed it.

I cant prep, yet. Im young-ish, I dont own a house, I dont own land, dont own guns, I know how to grow food, build stuff, etc, but how exactly do you suggest I do this in a rented house with a 10x10 foot court??

Sorry to say this, but people claiming every single bit of land as their own are what caused this and imo are what will possibly cause a collapse, its either "know your limits, the other 7billion people need some too" or society/government needs to provide what people need. Im sadly currently one who needs what others provide, I dont have a choice.

No, its not right to take from others, but its not right to take a forest for yourself and then expect when lawlessness is back, everyone is going to continue respecting that piece of paper with your name on it

Your post is very ambiguous in my opinion. Are you in a town where a catastrophe has struck and only 35% of people have survived? Then it would be foolish to not take take the food left on the shelves in abandoned stores. It's still looting. Are you in an area where everybody else has moved on? Is it a ghost town? Then take what's left to better your own situation. It's still stealing but leaving it to rot is stupid if you need it to better your circumstances. Are you really going to walk away from useful items under the guise that maybe someday this person will come back to claim their stuff?

You presented this as if the only scenario was happy, safe people sitting in their homes with their stockpiles while the armed thug simply comes, points a gun, and replaces you in your house and takes all your stuff.

Anybody stockpiling anything out in the open confines of their home is foolish in my opinion anyway. Unless you are prepping for power outages or minor events of inconvenience.

If structured society collapses, after 90 days, the survivors will be left -- meaning those somewhat capable of attempting true survival. Personally, I plan to stay hunkered for those first 90 days which I also think will be the most violent and chaotic.

reply to post by Strawberry88


Sorry, but the only people that claim the land is really for everyone are the ones that have never worked and bought something. Do I own a portion of your car if I need to go somewhere? I mean, public transportation is down and I don't have a car.

Edit to add: government land, paid for by all taxpayers, belongs to the people. Not private land.

reply to post by saltdog


in a situation where some of the IGNORANCE of the HERD have destabilized the entire globe, LOGICALLY nothing any longer is of personal possession. For if you for example came upon a house or structure that has been abandon how then can you logically assess if to enter or not if its detected no presence is there? To 1 its more like this everybody use what they can as they go. So maybe the karma associated would be like if you had set up a bug out precaution measure and had to evade or leave it and another came upon it maybe you will come upon another's who had to EVADE for some reason as well. We have to be logical, if you notice presence
then avoid if not stopping for intel or barter reasons. Good Luck ALL*