Winter is Coming....

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: neo96

Or maybe Tywin was being literal when he said to Tyrion, 'You're no son of mine'.

That he is actually a Targaryen ?

That would be a great twist.

a reply to: vor78

FWIW, I am not one who believes that Tyrion is a 'secret Targaryen

But it would explain his fathers hatred of him.

The son of another that killed his wife.

Going by the seasons so far.

The Lanisters never married for 'love'.

a reply to: neo96

In the books he has much lighter colored hair. The theory has been floating around in the fan world for some time, this episode only made it more popular.

a reply to: vor78

FWIW, I am not one who believes that Tyrion is a 'secret Targaryen'.

In the book he doesn't have their eye color ( he has two different eye colors )

Three heads of the dragon.....Tyrion, Dany, and Jon have more chapters and character connections than any of the other characters, etc. It just makes sense. (and to be honest, GRRM isn't exactly subtle in his writing and style).

a reply to: neo96

Tywin is all about projecting strength and he viewed Tyrion, being a dwarf, as an embarrassment to him. Likewise, its made clear in the books that he did love his wife, and that she died in childbirth with Tyrion was all the more reason for his hatred toward him. Tywin does throw the whole line of 'your no son of mine' at Tyrion, or something to that effect, but its more an insult directed at him in anger. On the other hand, there's also an exchange between the two, I believe after Jaime's capture, that Tywin answers a question from Tyrion by stating 'because you're my son.' I think that's in both book and show.

The biggest problem I have with it, though, and why I think its unlikely, is that you run into the same problem as with LSH. If you start having a bunch of secret Targaryens running around, as with multiple resurrections, it starts to cheapen the effect.

a reply to: vor78

The biggest problem I have with it, though, and why I think its unlikely, is that you run into the same problem as with LSH. If you start having a bunch of secret Targaryens running around, as with multiple resurrections, it starts to cheapen the effect.

That's not really a problem a lot of 'out of wedlock' offspring running around.

Ramsay.
Jon.

Who else ?

originally posted by: vor78
The biggest problem I have with it, though, and why I think its unlikely, is that you run into the same problem as with LSH. If you start having a bunch of secret Targaryens running around, as with multiple resurrections, it starts to cheapen the effect.

In the books there are secret Targaryens running around, we just never got any in the series.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There are a few, or some who claim to be. None of them are likely to be anything but lesser roles in the story, aside, of course, from Jon.

a reply to: neo96

Its not a problem in the sense of the world that Martin has created, but it may be problem for the story itself. As with the resurrections, it weakens the story when Targaryens start crawling out of the woodwork when the plot needs it. GRRM is already pushing it with (f)Aegon, IMO.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

In the books there are secret Targaryens running around, we just never got any in the series.

That we know of yet.

Could be like Battle Star Galactica and they will be revealed.

Of course depending on how long the series goes on for.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that Bran's visions are certainly setting us up for the R + L = J scenario.

Next episode is titled, "Oathbreaker"

Obviously, this was what the traitors in the Watch called Jon, so we'll no doubt see the aftermath of his resurrection there.

Bran's flashback vision is most likely the Tower of Joy scene, where Ned rescues his sister Lyanna, and where (the theory goes), Lyanna dies in childbirth, having fallen for her captor (the Targaryen, Prince Rhaegar). The child being Jon Snow, of course. Ned claiming him as a bastard, to keep him safe, an oath to his sister (hence another callback to the show's theme). Whether they go this far in one episode, who knows, but it would be a good episode cliffhanger.

Since Breanne's sword is called "Oathkeeper", we'll likely see something happen with her too.

Arya broke her oath and was struck blind, but now seems to be finally getting back with the program.

Should be a hell of an episode.

"Book of the Stranger" is the episode name after that, which seems to be about Arya's transformation.

"The Door" is the one after that, which is a bit more nebulous, but again, seems to be more geared towards Arya.

That was a great episode! Giants splatting guys, babies eaten by dogs, old men bungee jumping from bridges...dunno what more ya can ask for. I enjoyed it immensely.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

Yeah the giant splattering was like the Hulk smashing Loki around in Avengers

originally posted by: Gazrok
Bran's flashback vision is most likely the Tower of Joy scene, where Ned rescues his sister Lyanna, and where (the theory goes), Lyanna dies in childbirth, having fallen for her captor (the Targaryen, Prince Rhaegar). The child being Jon Snow, of course. Ned claiming him as a bastard, to keep him safe, an oath to his sister (hence another callback to the show's theme). Whether they go this far in one episode, who knows, but it would be a good episode cliffhanger.

One of the more interesting fan theories I've heard, and one I'd never considered, is that Ned is actually the 'Oathbreaker' referred to in the title. Rather than a promise just to keep Jon safe, Lyanna may have wanted Ned to raise Jon as a Targaryen, which, of course, would have put Ned at odds with Robert. Instead, Ned decided to take the path of least resistance, to raise Jon as his own bastard, breaking his oath to both his sister and his new wife rather than risk the life of his nephew and perhaps even his own head. I'm still a little skeptical, largely because I'm not sure we'll get the entire ToJ sequence this week, but it would be an interesting twist on the R+L=J scenario and might well explain why Ned thinks of it as often as he does in the books.

originally posted by: vor78
One of the more interesting fan theories I've heard, and one I'd never considered, is that Ned is actually the 'Oathbreaker' referred to in the title. Rather than a promise just to keep Jon safe, Lyanna may have wanted Ned to raise Jon as a Targaryen, which, of course, would have put Ned at odds with Robert. Instead, Ned decided to take the path of least resistance, to raise Jon as his own bastard, breaking his oath to both his sister and his new wife rather than risk the life of his nephew and perhaps even his own head.

I have seen this as well and it makes sense. Often times the episode titles can be applied to more than one plotline so this is very plausible.

I'm still a little skeptical, largely because I'm not sure we'll get the entire ToJ sequence this week, but it would be an interesting twist on the R+L=J scenario and might well explain why Ned thinks of it as often as he does in the books.

I could see them holding over parts of the scene until episode 5, the internet was literally broken on the main GoT forum after Jon came back, this could be even bigger. I played that scene a few times and it looks like a 5 on 2 scenario with Ned, Howland and his crew versus Dayne and possibly Whent.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is a main GOT internet forum besides this thread? what?

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
There is a main GOT internet forum besides this thread? what?

Oh, yes my dearest Zazzbot, yes indeed:

Speculate and revel in all things Game of Thrones.

I post there occasionally under a different screen name.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Its too noisy there, I prefer our small scholarly group

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Its too noisy there, I prefer our small scholarly group

It's a pretty well moderated forum but it does get busy. They have been around prior to the television show so it is a repository for all types of speculation. The hardcore fans cannot stand D&D and how they are running the show so it can get pretty over the top with criticism but I do like reading some of the more prolific posters there.