Department of Homeland Security Insider Update: "It Has Begun."

Originally posted by liverlad
I was watching an episode of Sons of Guns a few weeks back, and in it a Sheriff handed them a British armoured vehicle that needed to be converted to be a good crowd control vehicle.

Thought it was a bit strange.

edit on 26-3-2013 by liverlad because: (no reason given)

You don't watch Sons of Guns much, do you?

One time Will and the crew outfitted an oil sheik's SUV with remote control twin M16s and claymore mines.

They set up an old helicopter as target for test firing. The twin M16s worked like a charm.

The claymore mines blew the SUV windows out.

Originally posted by coltcall
reply to post by flyswatter

 

The math tells me you are having a helluva time finding and buying ammo.

Now, you want to do quantum string theory? A bullet particle can split in tow. If one bullet particle at one of the universe becomes scarce to you, then the other bullet particle at the opposite end of the universe is likewise scare to you.

1.6 billion rounds of ammo is roughly three times more than all the ammo fired by our troops in the Iraq-Afghan War over the past ten years.

And the number of people and places that this ammunition would be distributed to is far greater than the number over there, too.

Drop the number of years, put it at an average of 4 for the contracts for delivery. Divide that 1.6 billion by 4, you get 400 million. Working with average numbers from both sides, you're looking at 400 million going to the DHS, out of a total of 5.5 billion. That leaves ... drum roll ... 5.1 billion per year left over, on the average.

The shortage is not directly caused by the government "hoarding ammunition," the numbers do not come anywhere close to adding up to that. This shortage is a secondary effect. This shortage is being caused by the fear that has spread amongst the populace; a fear that ammunition will not be available, a fear of people coming to take their guns, etc.

reply to post by flyswatter


The ammunition shortage has been caused by the consumer.

Supply and demand.

Around 2007, consumers weren't buying. Manufacturers shot down shifts, laid off employees.

Now that the demand is up again, it's taking manufacturers a while to catch up on the sudden demand.

And Gubbmint can shut down the ammo assembly lines in a moment. That's sixty seconds or less.

They can use your tax dollars to purchase a hundred billion rounds of ammo. In sixty seconds or less.

You will never hold a high position of authority in Gubbmint because you are not tough and ruthless enough.

Originally posted by coltcall
reply to post by flyswatter

 

The ammunition shortage has been caused by the consumer.

Supply and demand.

Around 2007, consumers weren't buying. Manufacturers shot down shifts, laid off employees.

Now that the demand is up again, it's taking manufacturers a while to catch up on the sudden demand.

And Gubbmint can shut down the ammo assembly lines in a moment. That's sixty seconds or less.

They can use your tax dollars to purchase a hundred billion rounds of ammo. In sixty seconds or less.

You will never hold a high position of authority in Gubbmint because you are not tough and ruthless enough.

I'm quite happy in my job as a government contractor. I'm quite familiar with how both the good and the bad of the government works, and I definitely agree that its not all roses.

As I have said before, my issue on here is with those that choose to spread misinformation and outright lies. Two of the biggest examples lately are the "2700 MRAPs" and the government hoarding ammunition. Want to be scared of what they are doing? Fine, be scared. I dont have an issue with that. Scared due to bad information? Thats not my problem. Spreading that information to make other people scared? THAT is not right.

reply to post by flyswatter


Nobody was scared in the World Trade Towers five minutes before the first plane hit.

Say, you being a Gubbmint Contractor....you know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. I mean, at which end of Giant's Stadium?

If the Gubbmint can kill JFK when he was prez....they can off anyone. No problem.

Originally posted by coltcall
reply to post by flyswatter

 

Nobody was scared in the World Trade Towers five minutes before the first plane hit.

Say, you being a Gubbmint Contractor....you know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. I mean, at which end of Giant's Stadium?

If the Gubbmint can kill JFK when he was prez....they can off anyone. No problem.

I am quite confident that Jimmy Hoffa is buried in Illinois, but you're going to have to check on that one for yourself.

reply to post by flyswatter


I guarantee Jimmy Hoffa is buried at Giant's Stadium. I was just wondering if you were one of the few who knew where.

And I'm not telling you.

Originally posted by coltcall
reply to post by flyswatter

 

I guarantee Jimmy Hoffa is buried at Giant's Stadium. I was just wondering if you were one of the few who knew where.

And I'm not telling you.

Another of the urban myths, but thats cool. Its not something any of us can prove or disprove, and certainly isnt the point of this thread.

Originally posted by flyswatter


So, if there's a shortage right now, what does math tell you?

This is really about being able to add 1 + 1 + 1, and arrive at the logical conclusion. It's not about fear mongering, it's about being able to understand the facts regardless of how they make you feel. When was the last time the government ordered more than 2 billion rounds of ammo in less than a year? (And yes, I understand these are "up to" certain numbers). Practice with hollow points? The reason for the ammo shortage is because MILLIONS of Americans are scared. Those who have followed the liberals past exploits have good reason to be... We have constitutionally illegal laws being proposed on a daily basis. But that isn't even the worst of it. Any fool with a slight understanding of economics can see the world is on a collision course with financial Armageddon. Why do we all the sudden need over 3,000 FEMA camps? Is it fear mongering to speak the truth that over .40 cents of every tax dollar goes to pay interest on the debt? Where will that number be when we are at $26.5 trillion in 2015 and interest rates on our phony T-Bills have to be increased to keep other countries from dumping them? What do you suppose will happen with the Euro? California and Illinois going bankrupt? For that matter state and local governments are bankrupt across the country, and trying to raise taxes on the few people that still have good jobs. Do you understand that money printing causes inflation? The problem here is that NONE of the issues that caused the 2008 meltdown have been solved. Yet the liberal idiots think we are in a recovery. They borrowed ever larger amounts of money to mask the problem, and gear up a domestic army called the DHS. Which is also illegal according to The Constitution. At the same time we see a big push to outlaw, or control all effective weapons which was the exact intent of The Second Amendment to guarantee. If some people can't, or don't want to understand this for what it is, they will find out the hard way. Better to understand the truth, so we can be worried and prepare, than to be a mindless lemming with no clue...
So to sum things up, what if there is even a small chance the other 50% are right? Don't you think that deserves a critical examination of what you will do if you're wrong? Ok, last question... How do you think people will react when they start stealing money from Spanish, or Italian accounts? You can't earn a dime on savings anyway... Bottom line is there isn't enough money to make it work even if they stole 100% of everyone's money.

demonocracy.info...

demonocracy.info...

www.yalibnan.com...

www.cnbc.com...

www.sodahead.com...

www.usdebtclock.org...

www.dailyfinance.com...

Originally posted by vtr99

Originally posted by flyswatter


So, if there's a shortage right now, what does math tell you?

This is really about being able to add 1 + 1 + 1, and arrive at the logical conclusion. It's not about fear mongering, it's about being able to understand the facts regardless of how they make you feel. When was the last time the government ordered more than 2 billion rounds of ammo in less than a year? (And yes, I understand these are "up to" certain numbers). Practice with hollow points? The reason for the ammo shortage is because MILLIONS of Americans are scared. Those who have followed the liberals past exploits have good reason to be... We have constitutionally illegal laws being proposed on a daily basis. But that isn't even the worst of it. Any fool with a slight understanding of economics can see the world is on a collision course with financial Armageddon. Why do we all the sudden need over 3,000 FEMA camps? Is it fear mongering to speak the truth that over .40 cents of every tax dollar goes to pay interest on the debt? Where will that number be when we are at $26.5 trillion in 2015 and interest rates on our phony T-Bills have to be increased to keep other countries from dumping them? What do you suppose will happen with the Euro? California and Illinois going bankrupt? For that matter state and local governments are bankrupt across the country, and trying to raise taxes on the few people that still have good jobs. Do you understand that money printing causes inflation? The problem here is that NONE of the issues that caused the 2008 meltdown have been solved. Yet the liberal idiots think we are in a recovery. They borrowed ever larger amounts of money to mask the problem, and gear up a domestic army called the DHS. Which is also illegal according to The Constitution. At the same time we see a big push to outlaw, or control all effective weapons which was the exact intent of The Second Amendment to guarantee. If some people can't, or don't want to understand this for what it is, they will find out the hard way. Better to understand the truth, so we can be worried and prepare, than to be a mindless lemming with no clue...
So to sum things up, what if there is even a small chance the other 50% are right? Don't you think that deserves a critical examination of what you will do if you're wrong? Ok, last question... How do you think people will react when they start stealing money from Spanish, or Italian accounts? You can't earn a dime on savings anyway... Bottom line is there isn't enough money to make it work even if they stole 100% of everyone's money.

edit on 27-3-2013 by vtr99 because: New and improved

You make a point of saying that it is better to understand the truth so we can be worried and prepare. This is a good point to make, especially the truth part of it.

The problem comes when people are misled and spoon-fed things by people who are determine to cause fear, regardless of how truthful their information is. One great example of this is Alex Jones and the FEMA camp nutjobs. In theory, could any open area be turned into a "camp" for people? Sure, I guess. But are there 800 fully staffed and ready to go FEMA camps in the United States, as the often-referenced document says? Absolutely not, and anyone with half a mind to do any investigation of their own can see that. Being the fearmongering basket case that he often is, Alex Jones swears by this and his followers eat it up as if it is undeniable truth.

Another example is the so-called FEMA coffins, also paraded around by Alex Jones. People ask "What the hell does FEMA need with over a million plastic coffins? Are they getting ready to exterminate people?" Again, people are spoon-fed this BS and they take it as gospel. But even the smallest amount of time spent investigating will show you that there are not "millions" of plastic coffins stored outside of Atlanta, GA. They are actually plastic grave liners, required by many cities and counties in the United States for internment, and there are FAR fewer than the "millions" reported. They are manufactured by Vantage Products and that is their primary storage location after initial manufacture.

These are just two of the things that help to cause the fear that you speak of, but in these cases it is not fear due to knowing the truth. If knowing something that is truthful also causes one to be fearful of something, there really isnt anything to be said. But when someone is fearful because of a bunch of BS that has been spewed like the above issues, people need to step in and call them on their fearmongering.

Originally posted by flyswatter

You make a point of saying that it is better to understand the truth so we can be worried and prepare. This is a good point to make, especially the truth part of it.

The problem comes when people are misled and spoon-fed things by people who are determine to cause fear, regardless of how truthful their information is. One great example of this is Alex Jones and the FEMA camp nutjobs. In theory, could any open area be turned into a "camp" for people? Sure, I guess. But are there 800 fully staffed and ready to go FEMA camps in the United States, as the often-referenced document says? Absolutely not, and anyone with half a mind to do any investigation of their own can see that. Being the fearmongering basket case that he often is, Alex Jones swears by this and his followers eat it up as if it is undeniable truth.

Another example is the so-called FEMA coffins, also paraded around by Alex Jones. People ask "What the hell does FEMA need with over a million plastic coffins? Are they getting ready to exterminate people?" Again, people are spoon-fed this BS and they take it as gospel. But even the smallest amount of time spent investigating will show you that there are not "millions" of plastic coffins stored outside of Atlanta, GA. They are actually plastic grave liners, required by many cities and counties in the United States for internment, and there are FAR fewer than the "millions" reported. They are manufactured by Vantage Products and that is their primary storage location after initial manufacture.

These are just two of the things that help to cause the fear that you speak of, but in these cases it is not fear due to knowing the truth. If knowing something that is truthful also causes one to be fearful of something, there really isnt anything to be said. But when someone is fearful because of a bunch of BS that has been spewed like the above issues, people need to step in and call them on their fearmongering.

I am not an Alex Jones fan. I think he is absolutely correct on many issues, but tends to scare easily intimidated people with his out of control rantings. He does bring some thought provoking issues to the table. Why has our government spent billions on FEMA camps? You are correct that many of them are not currently staffed, but that is also documented and common knowledge. The government has spent a fortune getting them ready for something at a time when there is no money to spend on this sort of thing... It is our right as Americans to question our government, and to keep them under control. As Clint Eastwood said, they work for us... I'm always open to hearing the voice of reason, and glad to see logical explanations that displace paranoia. But quite honestly, the biggest problem we have is people who don't want to hear the truth because is scares the crap out of them. Trying to quash the truth by calling is fear mongering isn't going to work. But I'd love to hear some logical explanations for some of these things that can't be explained away...

www.youtube.com...

www.goarmy.com...

publicintelligence.net...

www.loc.gov...

thomas.loc.gov...:H.R.390:

www.gpo.gov...

www.examiner.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

I am not an Alex Jones fan. I think he is absolutely correct on many issues, but tends to scare easily intimidated people with his out of control rantings. He does bring some thought provoking issues to the table. Why has our government spent billions on FEMA camps? You are correct that many of them are not currently staffed, but that is also documented and common knowledge. The government has spent a fortune getting them ready for something at a time when there is no money to spend on this sort of thing... It is our right as Americans to question our government, and to keep them under control. As Clint Eastwood said, they work for us... I'm always open to hearing the voice of reason, and glad to see logical explanations that displace paranoia. But quite honestly, the biggest problem we have is people who don't want to hear the truth because is scares the crap out of them. Trying to quash the truth by calling is fear mongering isn't going to work. But I'd love to hear some logical explanations for some of these things that can't be explained away...

www.youtube.com...

www.goarmy.com...

publicintelligence.net...

www.loc.gov...

thomas.loc.gov...:H.R.390:

www.gpo.gov...

www.examiner.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

edit on 27-3-2013 by vtr99 because: (no reason given)

I cant view the videos here at work at the moment. Youtube videos are proof of exactly nothing, and since you've not taken the time to actually describe what is in the videos (which is something you need to be doing on here, btw), we'll just set that aside.

The HR 390 link did not work.

The Army Internment and Resettlement Manual? Ask an Army person about that. I deal with the USN and USMC on a daily basis, not the Army. But personally, I have no problem with there being plans for just about everything under the Sun.

And you have *NO* evidence that the United States has spent "billions of dollars" getting FEMA camps ready around the country, because that evidence does not exist. And dont give me that line about "Well, its black budget, its all hidden, you just cant see it, blah blah blah". That list of 800+ FEMA camps is a fallacy; it is a fabrication. Go through the list yourself, actually read it. Investigate with your own eyes, and in times where you cannot use your own eyes, Google Earth can be a good friend. Its a damn joke of a list. "Wilderness areas, unknown" ... wha ... um ... yeah. On one line it says "All are staffed and ready to go" and then it contradicts itself throughout the rest of the document. With the astounding lack of credibility of that list, I'm surprised anyone actually still thinks it is real. They would have had more credibility with a one liner that says something along the lines of "Well, we think that any open area in the country can be turned into a camp." At least that would actually be closer to the truth.

Question your government. Question their control. There's nothing wrong with that. But even though you were not the one to create these documents, continuing to spread outright fabrications can be just as bad.

Originally posted by HIWATT
Question. If you saw one of these vehicles behind you, wanting you to pull over/stop, would you?

Absolutely not. I do not recognize their authority. If one was trying to pull me over, i'd call the state police, and tell them a fake cop car was trying to pull me over.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by HIWATT

 

OMG I can't stop laughing. OK the "cop cars" in your first 2 pics are Federal Protective Service. They are not new they have been protecting federal buildings for decades, offices, and properties. The last pic is the southern border at Cali/Mex outbound/south bound lanes during the manhunt for the nutbar cop killer.

Jesus next time at least photo-shop something better than this.

yes, but up until a few years ago, they were not part of DHS, and were not acting in a "law enforcement" capacity.

Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by HIWATT

 

The FPS is not TAKING OVER for the local police. What the hell is wrong with you?

edit on 24-3-2013 by Carreau because: (no reason given)

The OP and WP4YT both stated they were witness to instances of the DHS acting as local law enforcement.
In the case of WP4YT, he said that he noticed this only after the "normal" local police presence seemed to disappear.

There is nothing wrong with me.
Neither of those two posters seem to be willfully misleading and are presenting instances they witnessed from their specific locale.

What have you provided? Other than coming in here and calling people liars...

just to add more confirmation, up until about 9 months ago, i had a job that required a lot of driving...long-distance travel on state highways..i used to see these FPS "police" a lot...and i did see them a few times on radar where there would have usually been troopers..never seen one pull anyone over, but chances are, if they were on radar, they were probably pulling folks over..

they are getting pretty obvious now.. they dont care because the fight has to happen regardless. 1913-2013.. im looking at Easter.. 3/31/13. when everyone is grouped in churches or with their families.

I have enjoyed reading this thread however I feel we have lost our gov to Internationale Bankers, in my opinion I am convince there is a take over happening right now. I understand that Home land Security made the order for these bullets for up to 5 years or so, but hollow points bullets, I don't think that's what DHS uses for target practice.

I cant view the videos here at work at the moment. Youtube videos are proof of exactly nothing, and since you've not taken the time to actually describe what is in the videos (which is something you need to be doing on here, btw), we'll just set that aside.

The HR 390 link did not work.

The Army Internment and Resettlement Manual? Ask an Army person about that. I deal with the USN and USMC on a daily basis, not the Army. But personally, I have no problem with there being plans for just about everything under the Sun.

And you have *NO* evidence that the United States has spent "billions of dollars" getting FEMA camps ready around the country, because that evidence does not exist. And dont give me that line about "Well, its black budget, its all hidden, you just cant see it, blah blah blah". That list of 800+ FEMA camps is a fallacy; it is a fabrication. Go through the list yourself, actually read it. Investigate with your own eyes, and in times where you cannot use your own eyes, Google Earth can be a good friend. Its a damn joke of a list. "Wilderness areas, unknown" ... wha ... um ... yeah. On one line it says "All are staffed and ready to go" and then it contradicts itself throughout the rest of the document. With the astounding lack of credibility of that list, I'm surprised anyone actually still thinks it is real. They would have had more credibility with a one liner that says something along the lines of "Well, we think that any open area in the country can be turned into a camp." At least that would actually be closer to the truth.

Question your government. Question their control. There's nothing wrong with that. But even though you were not the one to create these documents, continuing to spread outright fabrications can be just as bad.

History proves that all the government does is lie, lie, lie, so why should we give them the benefit of the doubt on anything?

So we're not supposed to be highly suspicious of a government that:

Claims to be open but expends an increasing amount of energy withholding more and more information.

Reports $2.3 trillions missing the day before 9/11, and conveniently, the building that holds the evidence turns to dust without the excuse of airplanes smashing into it. Oh, and manages to skip any media coverage.

Lied about weapons of mass destruction to start a hellish war.

Pours billions of dollars into undeclared war after undeclared war while their own country is on the verge of collapse, and drug cartels have killed 70,000 people in our own backyard, meanwhile, infiltrating 1,286 of our cities.

Incarcerates more of its citizens than any other developed country in the world.

Gives experimental drugs to thousands of people without their knowledge

Conducts mind control experiments on thousands of people without their knowledge.

Continues to bail out the perpetrators of the 2008 financial collapse, while punishing the taxpayers with continuous escalating austerity measures.

Actively encourages a revolving door between government and Wall Street

Spies on its citizens

And I could go on and on and on...

Originally posted by divideandconquer

I cant view the videos here at work at the moment. Youtube videos are proof of exactly nothing, and since you've not taken the time to actually describe what is in the videos (which is something you need to be doing on here, btw), we'll just set that aside.

The HR 390 link did not work.

The Army Internment and Resettlement Manual? Ask an Army person about that. I deal with the USN and USMC on a daily basis, not the Army. But personally, I have no problem with there being plans for just about everything under the Sun.

And you have *NO* evidence that the United States has spent "billions of dollars" getting FEMA camps ready around the country, because that evidence does not exist. And dont give me that line about "Well, its black budget, its all hidden, you just cant see it, blah blah blah". That list of 800+ FEMA camps is a fallacy; it is a fabrication. Go through the list yourself, actually read it. Investigate with your own eyes, and in times where you cannot use your own eyes, Google Earth can be a good friend. Its a damn joke of a list. "Wilderness areas, unknown" ... wha ... um ... yeah. On one line it says "All are staffed and ready to go" and then it contradicts itself throughout the rest of the document. With the astounding lack of credibility of that list, I'm surprised anyone actually still thinks it is real. They would have had more credibility with a one liner that says something along the lines of "Well, we think that any open area in the country can be turned into a camp." At least that would actually be closer to the truth.

Question your government. Question their control. There's nothing wrong with that. But even though you were not the one to create these documents, continuing to spread outright fabrications can be just as bad.

History proves that all the government does is lie, lie, lie, so why should we give them the benefit of the doubt on anything?

So we're not supposed to be highly suspicious of a government that:

Claims to be open but expends an increasing amount of energy withholding more and more information.

Reports $2.3 trillions missing the day before 9/11, and conveniently, the building that holds the evidence turns to dust without the excuse of airplanes smashing into it. Oh, and manages to skip any media coverage.

Lied about weapons of mass destruction to start a hellish war.

Pours billions of dollars into undeclared war after undeclared war while their own country is on the verge of collapse, and drug cartels have killed 70,000 people in our own backyard, meanwhile, infiltrating 1,286 of our cities.

Incarcerates more of its citizens than any other developed country in the world.

Gives experimental drugs to thousands of people without their knowledge

Conducts mind control experiments on thousands of people without their knowledge.

Continues to bail out the perpetrators of the 2008 financial collapse, while punishing the taxpayers with continuous escalating austerity measures.

Actively encourages a revolving door between government and Wall Street

Spies on its citizens

And I could go on and on and on...

You bring up things here that are completely unrelated to anything that I have said here. If you want to create some sort of straw man argument here, go right ahead, but I'm not biting on this bait and switch crap.

Where have I EVER said that you shouldnt be suspicious of the government? I have always said that if you want to be suspicious of your government, question the government, or anything along those lines, go for it. You have every right to do that, and I certainly have no objection. But dont be stupid about it. Investigate sources, check facts, make sure that what you are seeing reported is proper. Make sure that the information that YOU end up putting out there is actually correct. Taking these steps may actually lead you to being even MORE skeptical of the government, but they will also sometimes show you that those opposing the government are also fabricating stories and inflating numbers.

Well, while you make some very good points, you seem to dismiss black budget as if it doesn't exist. It does.
It also seems as if you believe the official story regarding 9/11, therefore, validating the existence of DHS, the Patriot Act, etc. I don't buy the official story, therefore, question the existence of DHS itself, not to mention, even one bullet that they order.

My point is that the government has given us no reason to trust them, and evidence is not exactly readily available to the common man, so please point me to this evidence that lays it all out, explaining the need to order one hollow point bullet, let alone millions or billions.